Giandel 2000W Inverter Issue

[Backupjack]

Recently purchased a Giandel PS-2000PBR Inverter after testing a few appliances through it i am unable to get it to run anything above 1650W without the Low Voltage Shutdown activating at 12v might it be a BMS problem ? Using a 280ah LifePo4 at between 80/90% SOC with a 200amp Daly Smart BMS any advise would be great thanks

 

[rmaddy]

2000W / 12V / 85% efficiency means up to 200A being pulled from the battery. If you have a 200A BMS then you shouldn't be having any issues with the BMS. But do keep in mind that things with motors can have large startup surges that could be too much.

What size and rating wire do you have between the battery and inverter? How long is the wire? You want at least 2/0AWG to handle the 200A load. Anything smaller will cause too much voltage drop at high amp loads.

Poor connections or crimps can also cause a lot of voltage drop. Double check that everything is well made and tightened properly.

 

[time2roll]

Load it up to 1500 watts and start poking with your voltmeter. Start right on the actual inverter terminals. Then check the wire terminals, main bus, fuse, switch, battery and cell terminals. Take notes. This should indicate where the voltage drop is an issue. Post the results.

 

[Backupjack]

2000W / 12V / 85% efficiency means up to 200A being pulled from the battery. If you have a 200A BMS then you shouldn't be having any issues with the BMS. But do keep in mind that things with motors can have large startup surges that could be too much.

What size and rating wire do you have between the battery and inverter? How long is the wire? You want at least 2/0AWG to handle the 200A load. Anything smaller will cause too much voltage drop at high amp loads.

Poor connections or crimps can also cause a lot of voltage drop. Double check that everything is well made and tightened properly.

Thanks for the reply's, I have around a 12 inch length of cable on the + side from the Battery to a 200amp fuse using 35mm2 wire, which is then connected from the fuse to the Inverter with the Giandel supplied cable which is made up of 2 x 15mm2 cables joined at each lug, on the - side the cable from the BMS goes directly to a Victron Smart Shunt approx 8 inches and then the 2 x 15mm2 supplied cable to the Inverter, i have re checked all lugs and connections and all seem ok .

 

[Backupjack]

Load it up to 1500 watts and start poking with your voltmeter. Start right on the actual inverter terminals. Then check the wire terminals, main bus, fuse, switch, battery and cell terminals. Take notes. This should indicate where the voltage drop is an issue. Post the results.

I will get on the case with the voltmeter and report back

 

[rmaddy]

Those wires are way too small. You need 70mm² to handle the 200A. The undersized wires you have are causing too much voltage drop.

 

[Backupjack]

I did think that myself but with the Giandel supplied cables ( see attached ) i dropped down to 35mm2 are you saying Giandel have undersized there own cables?

 

[rmaddy]

While I have no experience with Giandel I have seen a number of posts on this forum telling people that wires supplied with inverters are never any good. Those supplied wires can't safely handle half of the rated output of the inverter.

For a 200A load you want 70mm² or bigger. There will be very little voltage drop and they won't get too hot. I'm also assuming you use high quality marine grade pure copper stranded wire with insulation rated for 105ºC.

 

[Backupjack]

While I have no experience with Giandel I have seen a number of posts on this forum telling people that wires supplied with inverters are never any good. Those supplied wires can't safely handle half of the rated output of the inverter.

For a 200A load you want 70mm² or bigger. There will be very little voltage drop and they won't get too hot. I'm also assuming you use high quality marine grade pure copper stranded wire with insulation rated for 105ºC.

Also seen posted elsewhere about the supplied inverter cables not being up to the job, but quizzed Giandel on it and they say there cables are rated to do the job, just throws up any warranty issues should they arise if use non supplied cables, and yes are using good quality cable, will crack on with changing all to 70mm2 and report back when fitted and tested, thanks again for the advise appreciate it

 

[rmaddy]

I can't imagine how Giandel can claim that 15mm² wires are appropriate for a 12V 2000W inverter. That size wire is at best OK for up to about 75A before you start having excessive voltage drop and the wire starts getting really hot. Such an inverter can pull up to 200A. Even doubled-up 15mm² wires are only good to about 130A.

 

[Alice2021]

I see the giandel cables is 2*5awg each ,means 2*16.77=33.5mm2, equal to 2awg, can pass 170A current.
12v 2000w inverter max current is 167A ,so the giandel cable is enough for ths 2000W.
what is size for your 12inch cable on the + side from the Battery? This is very important.

As I know,some appliance start power is much higher than its rated power,such as fridge,microwave,so it is hard for the inverter to run 2000w appliance. The lab usually tests the inverter continuous power by bulbs,because bulbs start power is close to the rated power.

 

[rmaddy]

I see the giandel cables is 2*5awg each ,means 2*16.77=33.5mm2, equal to 2awg, can pass 170A current.
12v 2000w inverter max current is 167A ,so the giandel cable is enough for ths 2000W.

Due to inverter inefficiencies a 12V 2000W inverter can pull nearly 200A from the battery so the wires need to handle 200A. And you want those wires to be big enough to avoid excessive voltage drop and heat.

Can the provided wires run the 2000W inverter at all? Yes. Can those undersized wires provide the full 2000W without a bunch of voltage drop and without getting too hot to touch? No.

 

[Backupjack]

Hi All, , sorry for delay in replying life getting in the way, i have all the cable / lugs etc to increase the cable size from existing, my cable from battery + terminal to 200A circuit breaker is approx 12 inch of 35mm2 , i have ran a few tests with the multi meter and taking info from the Daly 200A BMS and the Victron Smart Shunt and they are as follows all before switching Inverter on.

1) Voltage between + / - terminal on battery before start 13.61v
2) Voltage between outgoing side of circuit breaker and system side of shunt 13.61v
3) Voltage between + / - terminals on Inverter 13.61v
4) When Inverter switched on display shows voltage of 13.60v

Then filled a 1000w 240v with 1 ltr of water connected to Inverter and 30 seconds after switch on reading were

1) 13.10v
2) 12.79
3) 12.67
4) 12.60
Shunt readings showed
1) Voltage 12.92v
2) Current 84 Amps
3) Power 1083 watts

After 3 mins of boiling readings showed

1) 13.00v
2) 12.76v
3) 12.65v
4) 12.60v

And Shunt readings

1) 12.92v
2) 84 Amps
3) 1084 watts

Kettle boiled after 4.45 seconds and readings after with Inverter switched off showed

1) 13.25v
2) 13.25v
3) 13.25v
4) 13.30v

Shunt showing
1) 13.26v and a consumption of 9.7 ah to boil 1lte of water

Then connected Induction Hob and set at 1200 watts power, readings were taken within 30 seconds of start up

1) 13.01v
2) 12.76v
3) 12.59v
4) 12.40v

Shunt showed

1) 12.87v
2) 100.64 Amps
3) 1295 watts

3 minutes after start readings showed.

1) 12.95v
2) 12.65v
3) 12.45v
4) 12.4v

Shunt showing

1) 12.85
2) 102.55 Amps
3) 1318 watts

Just after 3 minutes Inverter tripped out although i didnt see i assume it was a low voltage trip, both shunt and BMS showing readings of 13.20v and individual cells were at

Cell 1) 3.323
Cell 2) 3.323
Cell 3) 3.323
Cell 4) 3.323

Hope all the above makes sense any feedback before i increase the cable sizes would be appreciated thanks

 

[John Frum]

Did anything get hot along the circuit?
I suspect the 200 amp breaker.

 

[John Frum]

What is the brand name on the breaker?

 

[Backupjack]

35mm2 cable from battery to breaker got warm not to hot to touch but quite hot attached photo of breaker sorry for quality bit cramped getting photo,

 

[John Frum]

35mm2 cable from battery to breaker got warm not to hot to touch but quite hot attached photo of breaker sorry for quality bit cramped getting photo,

That looks like a cheap Amazon breaker.
The forum has quite a few horror stories about those.

You really should be using 70mm2 pure copper wire with 105C insulation for the battery circuit and the inverter circuit.
You also should use a 300 amp fuses for the battery circuit and the inverter circuit.

Here is the math...
2000 ac watts / .85 inverter efficiency factor / 10 volts low cutoff = 235.294117647 service amps
235.294117647 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 294.117647059 fault amps.

 

[Backupjack]

That looks like a cheap Amazon breaker.
The forum has quite a few horror stories about those.

You really should be using 70mm2 pure copper wire with 105C insulation for the battery circuit and the inverter circuit.
You also should use a 300 amp fuses for the battery circuit and the inverter circuit.

Here is the math...
2000 ac watts / .85 inverter efficiency factor / 10 volts low cutoff = 235.294117647 service amps
235.294117647 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 294.117647059 fault amps.

Thanks for the advise, the breaker came from a reputable UK supplier. I have the 70mm cable and will get a 300amp fuse if that is what it takes , i re contacted Giandel to ask them if they thought it could be voltage drop and they said maybe from my cables but not the ones they supplier which I fail to understand when they are the same size 35mm

 

[John Frum]

Thanks for the advise, the breaker came from a reputable UK supplier. I have the 70mm cable and will get a 300amp fuse if that is what it takes , i re contacted Giandel to ask them if they thought it could be voltage drop and they said maybe from my cables but not the ones they supplier which I fail to understand when they are the same size 35mm

The Giandel wires I have seen suck and the lugs suck even more.
Should be thrown out with the packing peanuts.