Hello from the mountains of SW Virginia

[DanET1983]

Just joining, wish I had discovered this forum a year or so previous! We are in the process of permitting an off-grid cabin build on land we purchased in Virginia. Two years ago we purchased a Renogy package consisting of 320 Watt panels, a Renogy 3500 watt 48 volt inverter, and 4 - 200ah acid gel batteries (we purchased 8, but used two of them for a small 12 volt system). This is what we are using in our temporary situation while we prepare for the permanent cabin. Our build location is 3/4 mile from the paved road and more than 1500 feet from the closest grid line.

Our last home was in Massachusetts and the electrical bills were horrendous. We hope to have a more minimal life with lower energy needs on this build. We plan to heat with mostly wood but propane as well. Propane stove and propane refrigerator, so the electric needs will be very low. However, I can see the benefit of having the system set up to be capable of 240 volt, and also with arc fault and ground fault. Luckily for us, our water is likely to be from a spring to a cistern storage system at approximately 100 feet higher in elevation from the house which would provide approximately 25 psi pressure via gravity which will eliminate another large electric demand.

Not sure how many questions I will have, but seriously considering the EG4 6000XP all in one system at the heart of it. I'll be doing the initial layout of the building and electrical system over the next few months and applying for the building permit this spring.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Our last home was in Massachusetts and the electrical bills were horrendous. We hope to have a more minimal life with lower energy needs on this build. We plan to heat with mostly wood but propane as well. Propane stove and propane refrigerator,

In terms of raw energy needed, this is one of the worst choices for refrigeration. Our 12cu-ft RV fridge consumed a 30# bottle every 3-4 weeks. that's like $15-20/month.

I replaced that fridge with a 10 cu-ft fridge. For two people it's more than large enough. It cost $400. It FEELS more spacious because the 12 cu-ft unit lost a lot of usable depth do to the cooling unit on the back. It's never used more than 1kWh of energy on any given day except the first day it took to get to temperature and the day we added a bunch of mass to it by filling it with groceries. When running, it uses 60W.

On average, that fridge could be powered by what is generated by 200W of PV. I'd take a hard look at the propane fridge option.



here are some comparisons:

2023:


2022:



This is the electric consumption of the propane fridge.

Yes. I know we're talking about different energy sources, and your propane fridge will likely be a little better than an RV fridge, but the bottom line is that an absorption fridge consumes 5-6X the total energy of a same-size high efficiency compressor fridge, and you're likely locking yourself into at least 4+ gallons of propane per month for refrigeration.

Here's what it looks like in July when the fridge cycles on and off in a 24 hr period (orange line):



worth noting that the RV was not being climate controlled. It was over 90°F.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Wow that is great about your water supply!

sunshine_eggo knows this kind of stuff (politely decline if he starts giving you romance advice) and strongly consider building a solar system that will handle your refrigeration/freezing needs.

Will you need air cooling? A heat pump can cool but also give heat.

We have been using a Dometic propane refrigerator for maybe 4 years (came with the house). Twice we have had glitches with it that required attention; not fun. When it totally goes kerfluff, we will get a mass produced, energy efficient fridge.

Welcome!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Wow that is great about your water supply!

With that description, I had to resist the urge to ask about hydro power...

Oops...

 

[DanET1983]

In terms of raw energy needed, this is one of the worst choices for refrigeration. Our 12cu-ft RV fridge consumed a 30# bottle every 3-4 weeks. that's like $15-20/month.

I replaced that fridge with a 10 cu-ft fridge. For two people it's more than large enough. It cost $400. It FEELS more spacious because the 12 cu-ft unit lost a lot of usable depth do to the cooling unit on the back. It's never used more than 1kWh of energy on any given day except the first day it took to get to temperature and the day we added a bunch of mass to it by filling it with groceries. When running, it uses 60W.

On average, that fridge could be powered by what is generated by 200W of PV. I'd take a hard look at the propane fridge option.

View attachment 187131

here are some comparisons:

2023:
View attachment 187135

2022:

View attachment 187136

This is the electric consumption of the propane fridge.

Yes. I know we're talking about different energy sources, and your propane fridge will likely be a little better than an RV fridge, but the bottom line is that an absorption fridge consumes 5-6X the total energy of a same-size high efficiency compressor fridge, and you're likely locking yourself into at least 4+ gallons of propane per month for refrigeration.

Here's what it looks like in July when the fridge cycles on and off in a 24 hr period (orange line):

View attachment 187137

worth noting that the RV was not being climate controlled. It was over 90°F.

This is an awesome comparison! Sounds like a good plan to go with the electric model. Of course, I have heard some horror stories on long term reliability of the newer appliances - currently running a vintage 1990s RV fridge off propane and you are right on the money about the propane consumption! But, getting rid of a mauve colored, fabric covered fridge might not be so bad ;-) And we did actually just wear through the lower hinge pin last week.

 

[DanET1983]

Wow that is great about your water supply!

sunshine_eggo knows this kind of stuff (politely decline if he starts giving you romance advice) and strongly consider building a solar system that will handle your refrigeration/freezing needs.

Will you need air cooling? A heat pump can cool but also give heat.

We have been using a Dometic propane refrigerator for maybe 4 years (came with the house). Twice we have had glitches with it that required attention; not fun. When it totally goes kerfluff, we will get a mass produced, energy efficient fridge.

Welcome!

Having lived through the first summer we might not need an AC unit for the final build as it does get cooler at this elevation at night and the airflow makes it very tolerable. However, humidity might be a factor. My parents have a log home in Massachusetts and they were shocked to find mildew going in some of their closets that were seldom used. So, having an AC unit to reduce the humidity or a dehumidifier is probably a good idea in this climate for summer. Hoping we will be allowed to build the cabin on piers with no closed in crawl space. Not likely to be able to get concrete delivered to this elevation based on the slope so we will be making the foundation with several piers where the footings will be concrete mixed on-site. We have a 1988 Toyota pickup that was a frame off restoration project someone did years ago. Not a full sized truck, but will crawl up the mountain in 4WD low and nobody told it that it is not supposed to carry the 1500 pounds of water I was putting in a tank in the back this fall. It just kept going in low gear ratio!

 

[DanET1983]

With that description, I had to resist the urge to ask about hydro power...

Oops...

Hydro would be a cool addition, but we get less than 1 gpm over most of the seasons from this spring. That is plenty for our meager needs (hey, who says you need a shower daily?)

 

[sunshine_eggo]

This is an awesome comparison! Sounds like a good plan to go with the electric model. Of course, I have heard some horror stories on long term reliability of the newer appliances - currently running a vintage 1990s RV fridge off propane and you are right on the money about the propane consumption! But, getting rid of a mauve colored, fabric covered fridge might not be so bad ;-) And we did actually just wear through the lower hinge pin last week.

I can tell you that my luck with absorption models is horrible. I've owned 5 RVs and three of them have had their cooling units fail. I couldn't find a repair option for less than $2K, so the $400 fridge was a no-brainer. My wife was hesitant at the time due to the perceived loss of a "double wide" fridge, but she agrees that the space is far more usable.