How does the UPS function of Ecoflow Delta Pro affects solar charging and running apliances?

[GoetzSaCebu]

Hi guys, I just watched Hobotechs Ecoflow Delta Pro video on YouTube where he tests the older (still beta) version of the DeltaPro.
What makes me curious now is his testing of the UPS mode.

In that UPS mode the DeltaPro just passes thru the grid power and limits output to 2000W, but what makes me curious is how that might affect parallel charging with solar.

I want to have my appliances plugged in the DeltaPro for ""near off-grid" use.
I plan to feed 1500W solar into te DeltaPro to power my appliances (which use about 750W per hour) and use the excess of solar to charge the batteries.
BUT in case we have a cloudy day I also plan to connect the DeltaPro to the grid and have it use Grid power to in case there's not enough solar input to run and charge all appliances.

Now on Hobotechs video he tells that in the case the DeltaPro is connected to the grid it is in UPS mode and passes the grid power thru and doesn't use the inverter. So how is charging and solar affected?

I would like to run from solar in the first place and only if solar isn't enough AND the battery goes under 20% it should recharge thru the grid, but not affecting the AC output or maybe cancelling solar input.

So now I'm a bit confused if the Delta Pro can do what I plan to do.

 

[Dank Farrik]

When AC input is connected, pass-through mode is enabled. So DP acts literally like a giant extension cord, but with an output limit of 1800W.

When DC input is connected, pass-through mode is NOT enabled. So DP can make its max output of 3600W.

You CAN used AC+DC charging at the same time. They have separate charging circuits. But note that as long as AC input is connected, AC output is limited to 1800W.

 

[DJRYAN13]

I wanted to know the same thing so I reached out to Ecoflow. If using as UPS with both AC and Solar input, the one with higher input wattage will take over (which would be AC so Solar would be useless in this case).
However, you can crank down the AC input wattage in two ways. There is a 400w slow charge button and there is a way to adjust AC input on the App.
As I don’t own one yet, I can’t confirm either of these but that is what I got from “Jean” in the Chat on their webpage.

 

[Dank Farrik]

I wanted to know the same thing so I reached out to Ecoflow. If using as UPS with both AC and Solar input, the one with higher input wattage will take over (which would be AC so Solar would be useless in this case).

Solar would not be useless. It will still charge the DP. Understand that the inverter is also the charger in the DP, which means it can only do one thing at time: either charging or discharging. While it's charging from AC, it cannot discharge, which is why it simply passes the AC input power through (DC charging is a separate circuit, which means you can also solar charge the same time). When input AC power is lost, DP will switch the inverter/charger to inverter mode and output power using the batteries.

However, you can crank down the AC input wattage in two ways. There is a 400w slow charge button and there is a way to adjust AC input on the App.
As I don’t own one yet, I can’t confirm either of these but that is what I got from “Jean” in the Chat on their webpage.

There is a hardware switch on the back with two positions: Fast and Slow/Custom. Fast always charges at the fastest rate, which is 1800W at 120V or 3000W at 240V. Slow/Custom charges at whatever you have set the custom charge rate at in the App. IIRC, the default setting from the factory is 400W.

 

[dstoian]

I'm owning a EU DeltaPro version, having 230V output.
When I use the electrical oven, which consumes 3000W, i'm switching DP to AC charging from outlet and I will running without problem.
I cannot confirm statement "... as long as AC input is connected, AC output is limited to 1800W".

 

[Dank Farrik]

I'm owning a EU DeltaPro version, having 230V output.
When I use the electrical oven, which consumes 3000W, i'm switching DP to AC charging from outlet and I will running without problem.
I cannot confirm statement "... as long as AC input is connected, AC output is limited to 1800W".

I should amend that statement with "the 1800W pass through limit only affects low voltage models (i.e. US, Canada etc)".

 

[dstoian]

While it's charging from AC, it cannot discharge, which is why it simply passes the AC input power through (DC charging is a separate circuit, which means you can also solar charge the same time).

In other words it means DP invertor cannot "blend/combine" AC from outlet with AC generated from battery/solar and deliver a mix.
DP does not have a "solar mode priority" similar with other off-grid inverters like Growatt SPF 5000ES :
- take power from PV
- take power from auxiliary (grid or generator)
- combine them and deliver it to consumers

I'm also trying to understand if DP AC-out can be connected to Growatt AC-in as generator.
In this way Growatt will deliver from his own PV + from DP with his own PV.

Some people have pointed that Growatt is acting like an on-grid inverter with injection limitation.
This injection limitation will "spill" current in DP when big consumers are disconnecting.

So big dilema is:
- what will happen when Growatt spills current in DP AC-out ?
- will it hurt DP ? DP has protection on AC-out for incoming current ?

 

[Dank Farrik]

In other words it means DP invertor cannot "blend/combine" AC from outlet with AC generated from battery/solar and deliver a mix.
DP does not have a "solar mode priority" similar with other off-grid inverters like Growatt SPF 5000ES :
- take power from PV
- take power from auxiliary (grid or generator)
- combine them and deliver it to consumers

The DP's inverter is also its charger, just running "in reverse". So it can only charge (via AC) or discharge, but not at the same time. This is at the hardware level and cannot be changed. On the software side, there is no solar priority mode right now, but a lot of people have asked for this feature, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's added via a firmware update. But it's not what you described, it's more like prioritizing PV input, and then when PV input is unavailable, switch to AC input instead.

I'm also trying to understand if DP AC-out can be connected to Growatt AC-in as generator.
In this way Growatt will deliver from his own PV + from DP with his own PV.

Sure, it's like any other AC source.

Some people have pointed that Growatt is acting like an on-grid inverter with injection limitation.
This injection limitation will "spill" current in DP when big consumers are disconnecting.

So big dilema is:
- what will happen when Growatt spills current in DP AC-out ?
- will it hurt DP ? DP has protection on AC-out for incoming current ?

What does "spill current" even mean? DP will put out a max of 3600W. If you exceed that, DP will go into overload mode and shut off its AC output.

 

[dstoian]

I'm trying to understand myself what exactly "spill current" means actually.
That's why I'm asking for some info.

In theory some people have discover that Growatt is acting like an on-grid inverter with injection limitation based on his electrical schema.
On-grid injection limitation is not perfect in any conditions, means there is a possibility that Growatt will inject ac in DP AC-out, probably the same way a dedicated on-grid inverter it's inject ac in the grid.

 

[Dank Farrik]

I'm trying to understand myself what exactly "spill current" means actually.
That's why I'm asking for some info.

In theory some people have discover that Growatt is acting like an on-grid inverter with injection limitation based on his electrical schema.
On-grid injection limitation is not perfect in any conditions, means there is a possibility that Growatt will inject ac in DP AC-out, probably the same way a dedicated on-grid inverter it's inject ac in the grid.

Growatt SPF 5000ES is an off grid inverter, so I have no idea what they mean by "on-grid inverter". Grid tied inverters have a lot more rules and regulations associated with them. This is a bit out side of my area, but my understanding is that while some European countries allow limited amount of power injection "assist" from batteries into the household AC from the grid, it is illegal in the US.

 

[dstoian]

We don't need to go into legal/illegal stuff, it's not in our scope and best interest.

Since we cannot determine for sure what Growatt is doing or not doing, let's simply the problem and focus on DP:
1. First priority is to make sure DP is not expose to any risks well knows upfront
Here I still need to dig more in Growatt real-life behaviour (or other invertors).
2. Second priority is to make sure DP can handle risks if somehow they arise from a faulty situation not known upfront
Here I need your help:
- what will happen with DP if "something" it's injecting ac on AC-out ?
- does it have any protection for that ?

DP is design/marketed to sustain heavy electrical tool as a real tough generator ... and Growatt is certified to work with generator class machines.
So I'm expecting DP to handle "hits" just like regular gas generators, no ?

 

[Dank Farrik]

We don't need to go into legal/illegal stuff, it's not in our scope and best interest.

Since we cannot determine for sure what Growatt is doing or not doing, let's simply the problem and focus on DP:
1. First priority is to make sure DP is not expose to any risks well knows upfront
Here I still need to dig more in Growatt real-life behaviour (or other invertors).
2. Second priority is to make sure DP can handle risks if somehow they arise from a faulty situation not known upfront
Here I need your help:
- what will happen with DP if "something" it's injecting ac on AC-out ?
- does it have any protection for that ?

DP is design/marketed to sustain heavy electrical tool as a real tough generator ... and Growatt is certified to work with generator class machines.
So I'm expecting DP to handle "hits" just like regular gas generators, no ?

You are essentially wanting to backfeed your circuits using the DP while the house circuits still connected to the grid. It's not only illegal, it's dangerous. There is no way to guarantee that the voltage, frequency and phase angle of DP's output matches exactly with the grid, so it's highly likely you will damage the DP or other devices connected to your circuits.

 

[dstoian]

I think you miss the topology details and my intentions:
- I don't want to do anything illegal or dangerous
- DP will not backfeed circuits : DP will only deliver AC to Growatt
- house circuits will not be connected to the grid : house circuits will be connected to Growatt
- Growatt will combine AC from PV and DP and will output voltage, frequency and phase to house circuits (same type as the grid)

Topology should be like this (picture attached) :
- DP AC-out -> Growat AC-in (blue color)
- Growatt AC-out -> house circuits (red color)

But still I will appreciate an answer to my punctual questions regarding DP:
- what will happen with DP if "something" it's injecting ac on AC-out ?
- does it have any protection for that ?

Thanks.

 

[Dank Farrik]

I think you miss the topology details and my intentions:
- I don't want to do anything illegal or dangerous
- DP will not backfeed circuits : DP will only deliver AC to Growatt
- house circuits will not be connected to the grid : house circuits will be connected to Growatt
- Growatt will combine AC from PV and DP and will output voltage, frequency and phase to house circuits (same type as the grid)

Topology should be like this (picture attached) :
- DP AC-out -> Growat AC-in (blue color)
- Growatt AC-out -> house circuits (red color)

But still I will appreciate an answer to my punctual questions regarding DP:
- what will happen with DP if "something" it's injecting ac on AC-out ?
- does it have any protection for that ?

Thanks.

No where in the Growatt's manual does it show that it's able to "combine" AC and PV input at the same time:

Lcd Setting - Growatt SPF 5000 ES User Manual [Page 18]

Growatt SPF 5000 ES Manual Online: Lcd Setting. After pressing and holding ENTER button for 3 seconds, the unit will enter setting mode. Press ''UP'' or ''DOWN'' button to select setting programs. Then press ''ENTER'' button to confirm the selection or ESC button to exit. Program Description...

www.manualslib.com

Operating Mode Description - Growatt SPF 5000 ES User Manual [Page 24]

Growatt SPF 5000 ES Manual Online: Operating Mode Description. Operation mode Standby mode / Power saving mode Note: *Standby mode: The inverter is not turned on yet but at this time, the inverter can charge battery without AC output. *Power saving mode: If enabled, the output of...

www.manualslib.com

As far what would happen if you apply AC power to DP's AC output? No one knows for sure, but I suspect it would cause damage. There are more robust protection on the input side, but I have never heard of any kind of protection on the output side.

 

[dstoian]

In Growatt manual at page 18 : Program 1 , Setting "SUB priority" : will mix AC from PV with AC from Utility to power loads.
Solar energy provides power to the loads as first priority.
If solar energy is not sufficient to power all connected loads, solar and
utility will power loads at the same time.
Battery provides power to the loads only when solar energy is not
sufficient and there is no utility.

Lcd Setting - Growatt SPF 5000 ES User Manual [Page 18]

Growatt SPF 5000 ES Manual Online: Lcd Setting. After pressing and holding ENTER button for 3 seconds, the unit will enter setting mode. Press ''UP'' or ''DOWN'' button to select setting programs. Then press ''ENTER'' button to confirm the selection or ESC button to exit. Program Description...

www.manualslib.com

"As far what would happen if you apply AC power to DP's AC output? No one knows for sure, but I suspect it would cause damage."
That is something I already know. I was hopping to find out more details.

Thank you nevertheless.

 

[dstoian]

If anyone is interested on this story ending ... is not working properly :
- I bought the Growatt SPF 5000ES
- I bought a 2KW string and connected to Growatt PV
- I've set up Growat in SUB mode (or SOL mode)
- I've connected the DeltaPro AC-OUT to Growatt AC-IN via a 3x4mm2 electrical cable (an authorized electrician did the connections)

Results in both SUB or SOL mode are similar:
- It starts without any consumers (no consumers attached to Growatt AC-OUT) : Growatt is using DeltaPro as Utility
But I have the impression that Growatt is already stressing out DeltaPro which behaves kinda strange:
fans are kicking in hard
the display is not showing the Growatt consumption

- It does NOT work with consumers
Once a serious consumer (1KW, 1.5KW or 2KW) is connected to Growatt AC-OUT DeltaPro gets overloaded:
error message with Overloaded is shown on display
the inverter it's shut down

When the PV attached to Growatt has 1.5-2KW it's starting with consumers ... but gets overloaded when consumers are disconnecting.

Conclusions are:
1. Growatt is stressing out DeltaPro without any consumer attached
2. When a consumers is connected to Growatt is kicking DeltaPro so hard that causes DeltaPro to overload
3. When a consumers is dis-connected to Growatt is kicking DeltaPro so hard that causes DeltaPro to overload

 

[Dank Farrik]

If anyone is interested on this story ending ... is not working properly :
- I bought the Growatt SPF 5000ES
- I bought a 2KW string and connected to Growatt PV
- I've set up Growat in SUB mode (or SOL mode)
- I've connected the DeltaPro AC-OUT to Growatt AC-IN via a 3x4mm2 electrical cable (an authorized electrician did the connections)

Results in both SUB or SOL mode are similar:
- It starts without any consumers (no consumers attached to Growatt AC-OUT) : Growatt is using DeltaPro as Utility
But I have the impression that Growatt is already stressing out DeltaPro which behaves kinda strange:
fans are kicking in hard
the display is not showing the Growatt consumption

- It does NOT work with consumers
Once a serious consumer (1KW, 1.5KW or 2KW) is connected to Growatt AC-OUT DeltaPro gets overloaded:
error message with Overloaded is shown on display
the inverter it's shut down

When the PV attached to Growatt has 1.5-2KW it's starting with consumers ... but gets overloaded when consumers are disconnecting.

Conclusions are:
1. Growatt is stressing out DeltaPro without any consumer attached
2. When a consumers is connected to Growatt is kicking DeltaPro so hard that causes DeltaPro to overload
3. When a consumers is dis-connected to Growatt is kicking DeltaPro so hard that causes DeltaPro to overload

Are you using the DP's 20A AC output or the 30A AC output?

 

[dstoian]

I'm having a DeltaPro European version.
It's having 4outlets 220-240V at 3600W/230V = 16A
Don't know about any 30A AC output.

Growatt is connected to one DeltaPro outlet.
One consumer 1KW + is connected to Growatt output.

Error message is "Overloaded 104" on DeltaPro
With or without X-Boost (4500W) turned on DeltaPro same error appears.

 

[Dank Farrik]

I'm having a DeltaPro European version.
It's having 4outlets 220-240V at 3600W/230V = 16A
Don't know about any 30A AC output.

Growatt is connected to one DeltaPro outlet.
One consumer 1KW + is connected to Growatt output.

Error message is "Overloaded 104" on DeltaPro
With or without X-Boost (4500W) turned on DeltaPro same error appears.

My mistake, I assumed you had the 120V US version.

Error 104 is "inverter overvoltage alarm". Does this happen all of the time, or only when the output is connected to the Growatt? Can you unplug the cord on the DP and measure the output voltage with a multimeter without any load?

 

[dstoian]

It's happening only when:
- Growatt ac-in is plugged/connected into DeltaPro outlet/output
- a consumer (hair dryer, boiler, washing machine, electric oven) with rated power between 1KW-3KW is plugged into Growatt outlet/output

I don't understand the error message "inverter overvoltage alarm".
It means that Growatt is sucking more than 230V from DeltaPro outlet and DeltaPro cuts of the inverter?
Or it means that Growatt is pushing high voltage into DeltaPro outlet and DeltaPro cuts of the inverter?