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How far from inverter can batteries be?

robknotts

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We have two systems connected to separate meter loops in our yard. System A is grid-tie only and ties to the house meter. System B is a hybrid and connected to the shop & water well. Both arrays are side by side but their individual inverters are in separate buildings 150' apart.

Would i be able to put the battery for System B in the building for System A 150' away?
 
We have two systems connected to separate meter loops in our yard. System A is grid-tie only and ties to the house meter. System B is a hybrid and connected to the shop & water well. Both arrays are side by side but their individual inverters are in separate buildings 150' apart.

Would i be able to put the battery for System B in the building for System A 150' away?
Not unless you have a high voltage battery system.

Edit: Well, technically you *can* do it, if you want to spend a fortune on conductor. Go to a wire ampacity chart and voltage drop calculator, and plug in the numbers for 48 volt and whatever battery amps you’re trying to run, and the 150 foot distance. The numbers will be huge.
 
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I'd recommend keeping the batteries close the the inverter. Your costs would be astronomical for appropriately sized DC lines of that length. Efficiency would also suffer. Just have two separately located battery banks if you require battery support for both inverters.
 
If you need to share battery storage between two systems, your best bet would be to find some way of AC coupling between the two inverters, and send the juice between them in 240-volt AC. Higher voltage=smaller wires and lower voltage drop.

The only other solution I can think of would be transformers at each end to step up and step down the DC voltage. But the cost of that would probably pay for a whole second battery bank.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide and how it turns out.
 
best bet would be to find some way of AC coupling between the two inverters, and send the juice between them in 240-volt AC. Higher voltage=smaller wires and lower voltage drop.
I agree and since one is a GT inverter AC coupling sounds feasible and more cost effective
 
Yes, you can. The process to determine how much and what size wire you need isn't difficult, but there are options depending on your price point and desired efficiency. For my calculations I'm using this chart: https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

For instance, let's assume you have a 6kW inverter and a 48VDC battery. For ease of computation, the battery will be assumed to be at or above 50V when under full load (6kW draw or 6kW charge).

That means the wire has to conduct 120A. Looking at the chart under "Maximum amps for power transmission" you'll find that 0awg wire is suitable for up to 150A.

On that same line, you'll find that 0 awg wire has a resistance of 0.0983 ohms per 1,000 feet. You will be running 150 feet, however the current has to go there and back, so your total run is 300 feet. 300 ft * (0.983 ohm/kft/1000) = 0.0295 ohms.

Ohms law, Volt = Amp * Ohm indicates that when you're pulling the full 6kW, or 120A, then the 300 feet of wire will cause a voltage drop of 120v * 0.0295ohm = 3.54V. At 120A, 3.54V is 424W - so you'll lose just over 400W of power to heating the 0 awg cables when you are discharging or charging all 6kW. Over 150 feet, 424w is under 3W per foot, which should pose no problems. This is a 7% loss, and it's linear, so you'll always lose 7% of whatever energy you move along those wires at 50V.

Further, the inverter will see 50v - 3.54v = 46.5v when the batteries are at 50v and the inverter is pulling 120A. When it's charging at 120A it will instead see 53.54v if the batteries are at 50v. Note the difference will affect your charging parameters, and your battery cutoff parameters.

300 feet of 0 awg copper wire is about $5/ft or about $1,500. You'll also need to account for the cost of conduit, digging, etc.

Doing the same calculation for aluminum wire will show that you need 4/0 wire, which has a lower resistance of 0.082ohms/kft, so a reduced 6% loss over 300 feet, and it's $1.90/foot, for a cost of $570. Note the huge price difference for the same carrying capacity - this is why 200A and 400A home service entrance wires area almost always aluminum. You will need to be careful and make sure all your connections are aluminum compatible and use the appropriate anti-oxidant compound. Note also that the larger cable will be more difficult to work with, and may require larger conduit.

For a different size inverter, or a different voltage, the calculations will be different, but this hopefully gives you a recipe to determine what would fit your needs.

Depending on your specific installation, you might want to consider other options to reduce cost or increase efficiency, but this isn't a bad way to go. Also, while it might be tempting to think about installing this heavy duty wire now and re-pupose it later for AC use (for instance, moving all your power equipment to the outbuilding) if you want to do that you'll need 3 lines of equal gauge, and a smaller ground wire. Just laying these two cables and a small ground for DC doesn't mean AC will be trivial later. Adding a third conductor and a suitable ground wire gives you a lot more flexibility in how this run can be used in the future. And unlike batteries, panels, and inverters, this wire will be useful for a lot longer than 20 years, so it's worth some investment and long term planning.
 
A voltage drop of 6-7% might be ok with some people, but not me. The rule of thumb is to hold voltage drop to less than 3%. I’ll defer to the code experts, but I’m pretty sure the NEC at least strongly recommends that. In the context of batteries I’d think that has even more importance. A 7% drop turns your 3.2 volt cell into something like a 2.9x volt cell.

Using the calculator in the post above, if you want to keep things at no more than a 3% drop, you’re looking at something in the range of 250-300 kcmil of copper. The cost of just the wire would be well over $2,000.

For all the work and expense of trenching that, and losing up to 6-7% of your power along the way, you’re waaay better off just buying a battery or two (with the added benefit of increased capacity).
 
Btw, if you AC coupled those inverters, you’d be looking at only 8 AWG to get 6,000 watts from one site to the other at 120/240 volts.
 
If the voltage drop varies by current that could add complexity to properly charging your batteries to the correct voltage. That is why I would also favor trying to find an AC coupling solution. The higher AC voltage would present less voltage drop issues.
 
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If the voltage drop varies by current that could add complexity to properly charging your batteries to the correct voltage. That is why I would also favor trying to find an AC coupling solution. The higher AC voltage would present less voltage drop issues.
It does, and makes this more challenging, but certainly can still be done. The important thing is to make sure the batteries have a BMS that's compatible with the inverter and charger (or all in one unit) and run the communications cable so they talk to each other. Then all the voltage sensing is done at the batteries, and the BMS controls how much current is charged, and when the charging stops right at the battery, and these decisions aren't made at the inverter.

If your battery isn't going to communicate with the charger/inverter, then 1) make sure you have a good BMS, 2) set your parameters conservatively - don't charge or discharge the bottom or top 10% of the battery. You'll lose 20% of the battery capacity, but the lifetime will be substantially increased, and the BMS won't have to do very much to protect the battery.

Another consideration is only discharging along that line, and putting the chargers into the outbuilding with the battery.

Regardless, make sure the batteries have a rock-solid BMS.

All that said, I generally agree that the long distance line should be carrying high voltage, and the inverters/chargers/batteries and low voltage connections should be located closely together. Even if the solar panels are on the roof, it would be better to run the solar DC voltage to the outbuilding and into the charger/inverter than it would be to run it into the charger/inverter in the house, then run the low voltage to the outbuilding.

I can't think of any good reasons to separate them, but I'm sure there are. It might help inform the conversation if the reason for the separation is given.
 
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