diy solar

diy solar

How to get solar when you can't afford it

Ceiling fans work exceptionally well in dry california heat. It's amazing how most people go straight to thinking about getting some kind of AC unit and don't even know about evaporative cooling let alone simple ceiling fans. Our usage is so low that even using the fans all day in the summer makes a noticeable jump in usage. Which is why I don't ever imagine using AC.

That being said, my friend lives about 20 miles from me and sees just above a hundred for a month every summer (dry heat). He was looking into some solar powered mini splits and I suggested a swamp cooler (evaporative cooler). At 100dgs outside in the shade, 80dgs looks a lot better and it doesn't use much more energy than a large ceiling fan. He can save what little roof space he has for his grid tie panel system for all of his electronics.

I think the climate argument makes sense for what and where to use affordable solar if at all. This thread is starting to convince me to just buy more bags of insulation for the attic (cooler / warmer). These houses didn't even come insulated and that was up to the owner who purchased new in the 60s.
 
venquessa said:
Simple trackers are not hard. I don't know your background, but there are two "layman" routes. "Smart home" stuff like SmartThings or what not commercial entities come with prebuild "cloud based" graphs and dashboards.

You then just add your temperature and humidity sensors.

If you get adventurous you can look at automating your fans et. al. using Smart home plug which can be remotely switched or switched based on sensor values.

The other route is using "Arduino" data loggers, either using something like an ESP8266/32 network controller or logging the data to SD card as CSV for later review in Excel.

No need to go full enterprise IT grade solution like I did.


Humidity is a pain here. In Ireland it almost always "wet", "damp", "raining" or "about to rain". Some days, often called lazy days, the clouds just can't be bothered floating anymore and just come right down to ground level for a rest. "Lazy"

With humidity routinely over 80% outdoors humidity leads to condensation anywhere there is a temperature gradient on surfaces. So it might rain most of the day, the temperature around 15*C, but by night fall teh interior humidity is up to 65-70%. The temperature outdoors plummets down to 6 or 7*C, damp and dew and what not settle on everything outdoors. In doors all that moist air condenses on windows and in the extreme interior walls.

The automation I am still conceiving for the summer months is literally looking at the humidity deltas between indoor and out and the temperature deltas for same. The output will be a notification to open (or close) windows and/or to enable the heating to dry the air.
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Above my head, but I know a couple guys... Anything more advanced than a PLC and I need 'A Guy'... I'm gears and wires (hardware, not software).

I went as 'Low Tech' as possible.
Ground banking (poor man's geothermal) goes back to Greek and Roman times, pretty well maintiance free and operates with zero electrical energy, in the beginning there wasn't an extra Watt to be had for anything not absloutely necessary.

I got stuck digging out the old root cellars/cokd rooms as a kid, saw thw field tile, and figured out what they were for.

In the late 40s/early 50s fast transportation came along, so more trips to town that didn't involve a horse and wagon, and rural electric came along, dirt cheap to get customers to connect...

And root cellars/cold rooms went extinct for the average home, eventually got removed in favor of something else...

Now the electric company has us by the throat, that almost forgotten technology is coming back...
 
JeepHammer said:
Now the electric company has us by the throat, that almost forgotten technology is coming back...
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Was watching a bunch of folks restoring old machinery. Even trains and bull dozers.

People think battery tech and running stuff on DC is a new thing.

As Sheryl Bassey was famous for singing... it's all just a little bit of history repeating.

The first powered cars where DC battery. The first trains. Most of the first engines had DC generators.
 
Forgot why I replied in teh first place.

For humidity control with pipes, have you seen this:
 
BuffaloTrace said:
Ceiling fans work exceptionally well in dry california heat. It's amazing how most people go straight to thinking about getting some kind of AC unit and don't even know about evaporative cooling let alone simple ceiling fans. Our usage is so low that even using the fans all day in the summer makes a noticeable jump in usage. Which is why I don't ever imagine using AC.
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Lower rhe humidity and you CAN evaporate cool here where we have "The Air You Wear"...
My air tubes lower the humidity, the ceiling fans do the rest.

By letting convection heat rise to the outside (vent) in the sun room/green house vent the home, its a no energy draw through the air tubes.

I have fans to draw the tube air into the home, but they are rarely needed.

That being said, my friend lives about 20 miles from me and sees just above a hundred for a month every summer (dry heat). He was looking into some solar powered mini splits and I suggested a swamp cooler (evaporative cooler). At 100dgs outside in the shade, 80dgs looks a lot better and it doesn't use much more energy than a large ceiling fan. He can save what little roof space he has for his grid tie panel system for all of his electronics.
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My cousin just built in Phoenix area, built in a cooling tower. Water spray cools air, it falls into the home. Apparently that lowers the crap out of air conditioning bills.
He also got an ICE block cooler. Haven't got him to let me take it apart, but I understand it has small tubes that get frozen into a block of ice when energy is cheap, and they use the ice block as a heat exchanger.
Didn't research it, but a lot of links pop up when you Google it, so apparently not uncommon.

I think the climate argument makes sense for what and where to use affordable solar if at all. This thread is starting to convince me to just buy more bags of insulation for the attic (cooler / warmer). These houses didn't even come insulated and that was up to the owner who purchased new in the 60s.
Click to expand...

I have rental homes (not really rent since they are permanent residents) and we insulated the crap out of them. It made a HUGE difference (in spite of what 'Code Guy's says).
We are all off grid, so every Watt counts...

While stacked apartments or multi-level homes have an advantage, single story has exposed walls EVERYWHERE...
A standard size, double panel window is about $150 and fall right in the hole any casement window came out of. It's ridiculously easy to change windows, which are HUGE energy dump holes.

ONE single pane window can dump as much heat as having an entire brick missing from a wall.

I bought that blow in insulation, when I bought enough to do the attic and walls, they loaned me the machine for nothing. If you have 40s-70s home that didn't require insulation before codes, this is a HUGE deal.

Just be sure to buy wall outlet gaskets before you blow that insulation in walls or you will find out how badly fitted the boxes are to the drywall or plaster!

I LEARNED about oversize face plates (25 cents each) and gaskets since I had to clean up the insulation off the floors (and everywhere else).

We aren't the 'Typical' home buyers. We find a house that's about to be demolished (highway construction, mining, mega-mall construction, etc) Run in with big steel beams & dollies, run off with the house for little or nothing.

Heavy equipment/structural moving was a family business until the 4th generation didn't have to work if they sold the company, so now they lay around and complain about the pool cleaning service or delivery people...

The steel and dollies are in my back fence row...
I won't move a concrete slab house, too flimsy, takes too much work holding it together. So imagine what happens when we have tornados...

If we find a solid built house on crawl space or basement, then we can run with it... 'construction cost', a foundation and basement.

So we have to update wiring & plumbing sometimes when it's older... MUCH easier when it's up on steel and you can get to everything!

"RECYCLE" doesn't just mean aluminum cans...
 
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12VoltInstalls said:
That is bizarre to me.
Modern people are way too soft if they can’t walk. Harbinger.

What was that animated movie of the guy with the remote that never left his easy chair? Technology and robots brought him slurpies and other disgusting things? I don’t recall but it was an interesting social commentary.
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Well the "distance" covered one way its 405 feet so a round trip 810 feet. While I am EXTREMELY out of shape and fairly lazy from sitting in front of a computer all day I still consider that a decent distance to cover. I can walk it once without an issue but going back and forth repeatedly is not something I enjoy :)
 
Seems like a bad idea to grid connect in California (and a few other states) with all the power grabbing going on. They will just do what ever they want with your gear.

Collective nightmare for the "better" good. Good luck riding out the sinking ship. Next stop, 15 minute cities.....
 
sunsurfer said:
Seems like a bad idea to grid connect in California (and a few other states) with all the power grabbing going on. They will just do what ever they want with your gear.

Collective nightmare for the "better" good. Good luck riding out the sinking ship. Next stop, 15 minute cities.....
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Agreed, unless you're using subsidies, or loan purchase agreement for power sell back, I wouldn't grid tie in CA. For an "affordable system" it wouldn't be worth it for me.
 
sunsurfer said:
Seems like a bad idea to grid connect in California (and a few other states) with all the power grabbing going on. They will just do what ever they want with your gear.

Collective nightmare for the "better" good. Good luck riding out the sinking ship. Next stop, 15 minute cities.....
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California isn't nearly as bad as some 'Red' states... Bought and paid for politicians by big fossil fuel energy.

The idea you can't use your batteries when the utility isn't making ENOUGH profit, just to drive profit margins up, is insane.

Gurilla Solar you butt off! If you can, add wind or water.

Remember Texas blaming the power failure on wind energy?

Turns out the gas company was too cheap to install $100 defroster on regulators and started a cascade failure they promptly blamed on wind generators.

They have two idiot governors that pass on myths like solar panels harm the sun, and wind turbines give you cancer...

I'm running 5 homes, 4 cabins, 3 production/manufacturing businesses and one farm on solar.

It cost a small fortune but for what the grid would have charged us we are still way ahead in the long run...
 
JeepHammer said:
California isn't nearly as bad as some 'Red' states... Bought and paid for politicians by big fossil fuel energy.
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I think you are mistakenly assuming that one corrupt party is ‘better’ than another corrupt party…
Solutions cannot be found when the equation has errors in the data used.

These same type of false flags in America are how we have developed modern racism, global warming polarity, the covid debacle, and the current banking crisis. Add ‘debt ceiling to that now that I’m thinking…

Altruism aside, the facts are that with solar- affordable solar- that after a 25-year ‘trend’ of “buy local” which was spurred by the burgeoning internet/connectivity phenomenon the government and utilities cartel wants to macro individual solar participants while sound-biting in such a way that the appeal of ‘local’ cultural dichotomies are not offended. “The greater good” in that context is a lie: the individual is stepped on- their personal economies violated- to somehow do a “greater good” when the good that is done is primarily the beneficiaries of profit margin.
This isn’t a party-centric problem. This is a problem of the regulatory machine and its partners skewing the free market by legislation while spinning it as a morally superior construct.
I can’t identify who specifically founded the near-meme pundification, “you get more of what you subsidize” but ‘we’ are subsidizing corruption. Imho.

So it’s difficult for me to come to terms with any idea that is identified as a blue state or red state causation. One hand washes the other and pure water does not flow from the same spring as sulfur water.

How to do solar for free or cheap? Manipulate your lifestyle and or circumstances so it becomes viable, so ROI is possible in whatever circumstances that exist. Mike Tyson said you can find a way to do anything if you want it but enough, and another great quote (not Tyson) observes that we can do little or nothing regarding the birds flying overhead, but we don’t have to let them nest in our hair.
One doesn’t have to submit to incongruity; one merely needs to make personal choices where the external ‘activities’ are not permitted to compromise our personal well-being. The mennonites have mastered this concept admirably. Nevertheless, one doesn’t need to be in a religious sect to adopt this cultural approach to the benefit of themselves and american society. Seeing clearly is crucial to controlling one’s path and destiny.
 
JeepHammer said:
"Codes" don't apply to my home, I live off the beaten path and all the state required was a structural certificate.

No codes for earth sheltered construction or concrete construction because it's so uncommon.

Also the reason I had to build it out of pocket, no bank would give me a mortgage for 'Unconventional Construction'.

Crappy wood box or nothing in tornado alley, they won't lend for overbuilding even in tornado alley...

And NO, YOU'RE WRONG. ABSLOUTELY WRONG.
I'm absloutrly sure about the indoor temps, it sat with no windows for over a year, sat for another almost two years unheated, nothing but convection circulation.

63°F to 68°F ground temp. The home simply CAN NOT sleep heat or cool, and it's a monolithic structure.

I actually built too many windows in, had to find a way to shade them. The passive solar through windows alone will heat the house uncomfortably warm (about 80°F).

Now the wife is a plant, she likes 80°F and lots of sun. I'm NOT. I keep it around 70°F.

Did you miss the part I figured this out with a humid root cellar and two cold/dry storage spaces underground?

The ONLY time the A/C runs is when we want to dry the air out beyond what the dehumidifiers can handle or the house is full of people...

As for heating, passive solar in the daytime and solar thermal (hot water/radiant floor heat).

That's a small circulation pump.

At night, or excessively cold snaps that hang on (-5°F for a few days last winter) a multi-fuel boiler, radiant floor heat. It only kicked on in the daytime a few times, so rsre that my wife wanted to know "What that noise is"...

And...
Just an idea that worked out, extra radiant floor heat tube got buried under the patio. Two values behind the front door. No shoveling snow/ice on the patio/front porch.

It may cost me $5 in fuel, but I'll gladly trade $5 to NOT hammer/chisel ice or shovel snow... insulation sheets, sand, tubing, pavers... best idea I stole that year!

YOU do what you want, YOU believe what you want. Don't tell me what's been working for 25 years can't be done.
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im just going to say I dont believe you, and leave it at that.
 
12VoltInstalls said:
How to do solar for free or cheap? Manipulate your lifestyle and or circumstances so it becomes viable, so ROI is possible in whatever circumstances that exist.
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Yes to this. That's basically how I'm doing it. I'm convinced now that I'll be dumping more insulation up in the attic, one or two doors to re-seal, that kind of stuff is going to help with the ROI for sure.
 
1201 said:
im just going to say I dont believe you, and leave it at that.
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He is correct. There are still allot of areas where there is no building "permits"I was looking at 3 states that had pockets when I bought land. Codes may be just "follow the state codes" but where I live there is ZERO permitting. I can even have a "lagoon" for my septic since I'm on enough land. When I was looking to get power dropped before we decided to just do solar off-grid, I asked the engineer for the power company what is requires for hooking up to the meter. He told me it was up to me and said good luck. My neighbors meter 4 houses down ( about a mile away) just has some what looks like romex coming out of the ground at an angle(kinda kinked looking)into the bottom of the meter. Your on your own out where I live and thats how everyone wants it. No money in this county. Most roads are bad and little to no bridges over creek crossings.
 
sunsurfer said:
He is correct. There are still allot of areas where there is no building "permits"I was looking at 3 states that had pockets when I bought land. Codes may be just "follow the state codes" but where I live there is ZERO permitting. I can even have a "lagoon" for my septic since I'm on enough land. When I was looking to get power dropped before we decided to just do solar off-grid, I asked the engineer for the power company what is requires for hooking up to the meter. He told me it was up to me and said good luck. My neighbors meter 4 houses down ( about a mile away) just has some what looks like romex coming out of the ground at an angle(kinda kinked looking)into the bottom of the meter. Your on your own out where I live and thats how everyone wants it. No money in this county. Most roads are bad and little to no bridges over creek crossings.
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I don't have a problem with that but there is no house that stays between 65 and 80 with no HVAC system when it gets to 20 and 100 in that area.

And with 15ft tall south facing windows? Yeah, I don't buy it
 
1201 said:
I don't have a problem with that but there is no house that stays between 65 and 80 with no HVAC system when it gets to 20 and 100 in that area.

And with 15ft tall south facing windows? Yeah, I don't buy it
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I think a hole dug in the ground and made to look like a house inside would stay a pretty constant temperature if designed right..... you're talking the "modern" stick built or steel framed above ground square house. Even basements (hole in ground) stay nice and cool in the summer and don't freeze in the winter.
 
BuffaloTrace said:
I think a hole dug in the ground and made to look like a house inside would stay a pretty constant temperature if designed right..... you're talking the "modern" stick built or steel framed above ground square house. Even basements (hole in ground) stay nice and cool in the summer and don't freeze in the winter.
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Not if you have any amount of windows.
 
1201 said:
Not if you have any amount of windows.
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Well actually it will. A business partners father built one of the in ground houses near here and it is amazing how easy it is to heat and air condition.

Its not a hole in the ground for the door sort of deal as much as no walls as the earth is brought up to the level of the roof. It has a roof but its technically at ground level from the ground being slopped up to it. They put the ac units and such on the roof with the roof being all dirt covered in gravel.

So yes it works wonders but they don't have an abnormal amount of front windows. The house technically just has a front exposed after all.

Also if you had enough windows across a south facing area I could see that causing problems. I honestly don't remember which direction the front of the house faces but I think it was west.
 
1201 said:
Not if you have any amount of windows.
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Basements all across the country have windows....I've been in them in the cold of winters and the hottest of summers. Dehumidifiers help but other than that they stay very constant temp regaurdless of the and compared to the amount of energy being used to heat and cool the above ground floors.
 
Seems they have modded the house some since I was last there. I pulled these off of googles sat and road view stuff.

moundhouse1.jpg
This is from the road and according to google we are looking northward so the house faces southward it seems.

This is from above :
moundhouse2.jpg

Im guessing they replaced the gold colored gravel with white for better reflecting.
 
svetz said:
For the cost of windows, I wonder if anyone has replaced them with LCD panels and cameras of the outside....
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I'm sure some would be willing to give up natural light and heliotherapy to save $200 a year
 
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