I bet solar w/ battery is about to get wildly popular in Texas. Minimum system size?

[Steve_S]

I'll mention it here because it will not occur to anyone.

A "Survival Room" is a solution most any homeowner can implement.
- Choose a room in the home which will be a survival room. Large enough to cots / beds, the very basics like a small fridge, a microwave and a "Hot Plate" or inductive type is better.
- The electrical circuits within that room would be run to a separate sub-panel, which is in turn connected to an Inverter with batteries. * The Inverter Charger would take grid power during off-peak to charge batteries or to act as UPS if grid power fails.
- Insulate the walls with blown insulation or Rockwool or better yet foam. Same for the ceiling in that room as well as under the floor.
- An independent heating system should be installed into this room. Preferably one which does not require electricity or only low power to run a fan or so.
- An option for summer is to have some form of AC system that can service that room and be powered by the inverter system.

Survival rooms should NOT be in a basement as they can flood. Sewage backups are also a possibility as well as sewage gasses in more extreme situations. They should have at minimum one Window & Door to allow egress outside in the event of an emergency. This room must have doors to allow it to be isolated from the remainder of the house to contain the heat/cool within.

Consider that over 100 years ago, homes were built differently and more often than not, certain things were centralised / organised in homes to allow for rooms to be cutoff and to have a smaller functional space that could be maintained in the event of an emergency. Quite often the Kitchen was the center of this due to having the cooking facilities that generated heat. Look at all old houses, they were not "Open Concept" and everything could be compartmentalized and closed off as desired.

We record history and all things humanity has accomplished, they solved problems and had solutions that still work today yet many will not look back to see the creative & good solutions of day's gone past. Many of the past solutions were common-sense approaches and most often "passive" so that no external sources were needed to make use of the solutions.

 

[ArthurEld]

I look at my batteries as insurance. Since I have reliable grid and no TOU I don't need most of my batteries except for disaster.
So, just like insurance I hope I never have to use my batteries. It would be best if they outlive their usefulness without being used.
But if I ever do need to use them, I will be much better off than anybody I know.

 

[Hedges]

There are some condensing dryers with refrigeration (heat pump) systems inside. I've seen those about $1300.
More common is to either condense with cold water (typical in washer/dryer combo), or by blowing air over a heat exchanger. The heated air is then exhausted into the dwelling.

I bought a Bosch compact condensing dryer, about $1000, for use in a condo that didn't have vent available to outside.
Compare to $350 for cheaper brand conventional dryers. The higher end brands are more expensive regardless of type.
I can normally pick up used conventional washers/dryers around $100.

 

[Maast]

To follow up on 'survival room' idea. Nothing says you have to heat the ENTIRE house even with a open concept. A few sheets to cover hallway entrances and a ductless mini-split and even your living/dining room combo is toasty and for only 960 watts. If you don't have a wood stove, and all you have is a gas fireplace with no gas this'd be perfect.

6 years ago I installed a 12k btu 16seer mini-split with the head in the dining area and when cooling it keeps the entire rambler-style 1900 sqft house cool even in 90 degree weather - though if it gets that hot we have to use strategic fans to move the cooled air down the hallway towards the bedrooms. Most mini-splits now are in the 20seer range and would be even more effective. The thing is so efficient we dont even notice it on the electric bill.

I've never had to use it to heat the house, but when I've turned it to 'heat' it belts out huge amounts of hot air. Like many/most houses built in the last 20 years we dont have a wood burning fireplace, just a little gas fireplace thats just enough to keep it at 70F in 30 degree weather if I put a small carpet blower fan blowing into it.

 

[McIntyreJK]

I’ve used a https://emporiaenergy.com/ “Vue” to monitor each of the circuits in our summer home for over a year. It is on the coast of New England ( we have winter - regularly). During the winter when the house is in “survival mode” - heat at 50F ( oil furnace), refrigerator running and all house automation running, the house uses about 5 kWh / day, with a peak 1 sec load of 3000 watts. You can keep the pipes from freezing and the food cold with 3kw.

I take it the Vue has worked well. I am buying one to monitor my energy usage as well since I have an inverter-driven heat pump and establishing the duty cycle on those is impossible because they vary their capacity, therefore energy consumption, at all times. I was going to use Sense but after discussing the type of system with them that I have, we determined that a monitor with only two CT's wouldn't work.

 

[McIntyreJK]

To follow up on 'survival room' idea. Nothing says you have to heat the ENTIRE house even with a open concept. A few sheets to cover hallway entrances and a ductless mini-split and even your living/dining room combo is toasty and for only 960 watts. If you don't have a wood stove, and all you have is a gas fireplace with no gas this'd be perfect.

6 years ago I installed a 12k btu 16seer mini-split with the head in the dining area and when cooling it keeps the entire rambler-style 1900 sqft house cool even in 90 degree weather - though if it gets that hot we have to use strategic fans to move the cooled air down the hallway towards the bedrooms. Most mini-splits now are in the 20seer range and would be even more effective. The thing is so efficient we dont even notice it on the electric bill.

I've never had to use it to heat the house, but when I've turned it to 'heat' it belts out huge amounts of hot air. Like many/most houses built in the last 20 years we dont have a wood burning fireplace, just a little gas fireplace thats just enough to keep it at 70F in 30 degree weather if I put a small carpet blower fan blowing into it.

Mini splits work great, especially for the idea you mention. I recommend them for nearly everything. The startup amperage is very low. The heating performance is really good too. I have a 16 SEER in my office/outbuilding and it was heating decently in the teens. I have a Mini VRF (big brother mini split) in my house that is rated to -31°F. It had no problems heating my house...as long as the power was on. That's why I am here.

Unfortunately, most heat pumps, particularly non-inverter-driven heat pumps, perform poorly in heating without electric backup. Electric heat is really difficult to power via generator or solar, in any cost-effective way. So for Texans, last week was a one-two punch if they weren't lucky enough to have gas.

 

[2009Bounder2020]

all good solar backup systems should have a generator. its also nice to be able to charge up your battery or run high demand items (like a drill or microwave etc for short periods and not have to size the solar system to run the one off items. best to have redundancy

 

[blutow]

I'm in austin and was one of the lucky ones with power most of last week. It still got me thinking about backup plans. I have a honda 2200i generator (rated at ~1800 watts continuous) and I had enough fuel to run it for 3-4 days if needed. So, that's enough to keep some critical stuff going and heat a small area. I was thinking about whether a battery bank would be a good solution for people and I think they may help a little, but it's just too expensive for most folks and much more than having a small generator. If you already have some infrastructure with solar and inverter, it starts to make more sense, but you would still need a massive battery bank to keep things going for a while.

For ~$3k, I can get a 10kw generator that can run for a couple weeks on my 500 gallon propane tank. This would allow me to selectively run whatever I want in the house and would also let me run my well pump for water (my honda can't run the 240 stuff). I'm guessing there is probably a huge backorder on generators right now, but I will probably go this route eventually. I was already thinking about adding the big generator before the storm last week and this just makes it more real.

 

[Gumby2]

The main takeaway is don't go it alone and connect to the Eastern or Western grid so at least the electricity stays on. The fools who thought they didn't need backup should be fired. BTW, all that wind and solar needs to be backed up too, with fossil fuels. Diversify your energy, renewables are great but can't be relied upon 100%. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

 

[alfaeric]

Nope. I grew up in Wisconsin and had enough of extreme cold. Granted I am in Conroe away from the coast, and not affected by flooding, so am protected from a Cat5 direct hit. During hurricane Ike was out of power for ten days. I will take 100F over 8F any day.

I used to think I hated winter in Michigan, until I got to spend a week or so a year in the Caribbean. Add in the threat of hurricanes- that ended my previous dream to move south to avoid all of this. The natural disasters that Texas has had to deal with are much worse than here in MI.

In terms of a survival system- IMHO, one should focus on having power to just "survive"- which means keeping warm, having cold food, and not being flooded out. That really narrows down what needs to be done.

BTW, I've done a lot of planning for a home in Puerto Rico for the exact same thing- it's VERY feasible to make the emergency power set up AND have it run live so that it will help pay for itself. The requirements there are a fridge and the entertainment system- so a pretty small back up was needed. Adding a heating system can be pretty big- massive if you use electricity to make heat, just large if it's just the fan and gas heat.

With the "affordable" 280ahr cells, you can make a 48V system with 13,440 Whr. The average American home uses quite a bit more than that in a day- so one would really have to pare it down. Lets put it this way- one year ago, I was doing a small back up generator- for the same price, it's double or triple the capability of what I spent a year ago. And the tie in systems are way better....

Anyway, if it were me, I'd focus on what I HAD to have, build a system around that, and then buy the parts that let it help pay for itself over time. And I would also be strategic with the solar panel location to help with sun loading on the home, too.

 

[ArthurEld]

Freezing and cloudy is difficult for batteries.
In FL we never get freezing and we use the most electricity when the sun is shinning.
So, batteries can be used more conservatively.
But you can't beat a generator.

 

[Supervstech]

I think everybody should have a generator, standby or manual. Having a battery setup is also good.
I have made do with simple 12V inverters connected to my truck, I have revamped some commercial UPS boxes, and I have built some standby stuff.
Power outages can be inconvenient, and deadly... it is best to be prepared.

 

[Rider]

I have made do with simple 12V inverters connected to my truck,

I'm in the process of doing that too. My GMC has AUX battery taps and a spot for a 2nd battery, going to put in a large 2nd battery connected by an isolator. That battery will run an inverter. Originally planned this to run a small fridge when I go x-country, with the isolator it won't deplete my starter battery.

 

[dmholmes]

I think everybody should have a generator, standby or manual. Having a battery setup is also good.
I have made do with simple 12V inverters connected to my truck, I have revamped some commercial UPS boxes, and I have built some standby stuff.
Power outages can be inconvenient, and deadly... it is best to be prepared.

I'm trying to be better prepared. We have a tri-fuel portable generator, 12v/100ah battery and 1200w inverter, and cars that could be used with inverter. We've never considered that we would need to get heat, hurricanes have been the concern. So now I'm trying to see the best way to get heat without grid power. I haven't gotten the specs on our furnaces yet to see what the power usage is.

We are considering a standby generator if we have room for it. The problem with our portable is there is no good place to leave it at night since we live in a townhouse with shared driveway. I've also considered getting a hybrid vehicle since they only need to run a little every once in a while to charge battery for a connected inverter.

It looks like the oil-based radiating heaters might be a good choice to heat a small to medium sized room since they can be run for a while and still radiate heat when shut off. But the lowest power usage I can find is still 600w.

 

[Hedges]

The main takeaway is don't go it alone and connect to the Eastern or Western grid so at least the electricity stays on. The fools who thought they didn't need backup should be fired.

On the other hand, saying it isn't interstate commerce so the feds can't get in your shorts is worth a great deal.
Not much different from people here who don't want a utility company involved.

But Texas has to deal with the same issues - figure out how to make their grid resilient when some production goes offline. That's hard to do with power coming from multiple profit-oriented companies.
Not that different from grid-tie PV users who reserve the right to draw power when they need it. So new tariffs allow the utility to impose demand charges.
Maybe if they go as far as remote controlled disconnects at customer premises, and customers can pay extra for reliable power or otherwise be cut during shortages?

 

[Skull_Leader]

Nah, I don't think we need to waste a bunch of money "Winterizing" in case of a once in 200 year Ice storm. What we could do, is put critical utilities (like Water sanitation, Fire Dept, Police, Hospitals) on it's own power source that's not subject to Rolling Blackouts. Also create Storm shelters for tornados, Winter Storms, and the odd space alien invasion. We could be more prepared, but we should do so intelligently.

 

[curiouscarbon]

Is there anything less energy demanding than a space heater that could keep 1 room warmish?

consider electric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotatsu

it will not warm the entire room, though

 

[ArthurEld]

My wife and I used an electric blanket for a few weeks after Sandy took out our power. It would have been difficult to sleep without it.
We had a crappy $300 generator that ran our refrigerator, lights and the electric blanket and our neighbors refrigerator and lights.
It was cold so the refrigerators didn't need much electricity but when the electricity is out for weeks they need electricity.

 

[Johnson]

Nah, I don't think we need to waste a bunch of money "Winterizing" in case of a once in 200 year Ice storm. What we could do, is put critical utilities (like Water sanitation, Fire Dept, Police, Hospitals) on it's own power source that's not subject to Rolling Blackouts. Also create Storm shelters for tornados, Winter Storms, and the odd space alien invasion. We could be more prepared, but we should do so intelligently.

There is no financial incentive for power generation to provide backup for emergencies, as we have seen, they make more money when there are those occasional power shortages. That is not a complaint, it is simply how the free market works. Government can make rules to give priority to critical utilities, but they will still be expected to pay the market rates. Or government can demand that they put in generators with maintenance contracts to be payed for by the tax payer.

What I suspect will happen is that if we leave things to the free market, those people who can afford it, will install solar, batteries and a generator. Some will do it because they like the self suficincy, others wil do it because they want to do something about global warming. Depending on the grid connection costs, they might even decide to go off-grid. Solar is already cost competitive, even more so for DIY'rs like the people here on this forum. Batteries have also become a viable option for demand smoothing.

House prices here in this part in Canada are crazy, adding 30,000 - 50,000 (which I agree is a lot of money) in solar, with battery and a backup generator to new homes will hardly be noticeable in the background noise of rising house prices. Getting permits to put solar on an existing roof on the other hand is infuriating, last time I checked, it would cost more then the costs of the panels. Connecting them to the grid is painful as the utility company can make me wait for a year after I install and pass inspection, for me to be able to use even a single electron.

I agree we should do so intelligently, but there is no consensus on what is intelligent. Things are changing rapidly, a generator is probably the best solution today, but in two years time, an off-grid system might well be the best solution, especially for new buildings. China, for all their faults is going full steam on renewables and they are improving their grid connections. Texas decided to isolate their grid in order to avoid federal regulations. who is right? only time will tell. Will China end up having an economic advantage if they guessed right by building the industry and grid? I am not qualified to decide who is and isn't right, I am not the one to look for for intelligent decisions on what the future will hold when it comes to decide what is best for a state or nation. All I see is falling prices for renewables with backup, which is going to be disruptive, whatever choices we make as a collective or even if we don't make choices. With politics these days we see a lot of yelling, a lot of anger and I really have no time for that.

For me, this whole thing is a hobby, my covid project if you will, after building a battery (to be used in a camper van) my wife suggested I put solar panels on the shed and she only had to ask once, I will be picking 4 280W panels up this weekend. It will give me some first hand experience to decide on how well or poorly it could work all together in the van for out use. The room I am in now is about the same size as a van with as many windows and the battery will run my electric heater in freezing temperatures for about 10 hours. This summer I will test it with air conditioning. I would love to see if an air conditioner with solar is an option in a van, my wife prefers camp grounds and I prefer to park near fishing spots. If I was in Texas, I would almost certainly put solar with battery backup on my house, I like my independence.