I feel like a newcomer

[mytoolman]

I have been on this forum for a while on and off. I say I am a new comer because its as if I am. I am still frozen in place not knowing how to solve my issues. If I was flush with money I would offer one {or several} of you a consulting fee to design a system for me and pay typical consulting fees. If I must do THAT I am at the point to do that. I dont even know where to find THAT consultant. I have gone to random solar companies here in San Diego like Sulivan Solar and they have no interest in me.

Any sentence that comes my way that effectively says "you JUST have to do this"...or "ALL it takes to do it is a little study" or " its easy you "ONLY" have to do" doesnt apply to me. These employ/imply words that MINIMIZE and there is nothing minimal about figuring out a solar system that would be best for MY situation. The information seeking efforts I have realized to date all have had folks offer these JUST, ALL and ONLY statements leaving me in the same place as when I met or talked to them.

I am trying to restart my VERY dormant mobile tool sales business and can not afford to have another start and stop like has been happening the last 6 years. I have just enough of my retirement money left to restart this last time before I have to give up and go find a normal job. I need this to be done right the first time so I really need your help here.

I am officially desperate to get (12v or 24v?) solar on my tool truck. My house lead acid batteries wont charge any longer in my mobile tool store. I need to purchase batteries RIGHT NOW to be able to re-start my business this time. I dont want to purchase lead acid again. Its time for Lithium Ion batteries unless there is some other compelling idea.

There are currently SIX 6 volt 220 amp hr mostly dead 'golf cart" lead acid batteries that power a plain jane 800 watt modified sine inverter to supply me with the power I need. My power needs are: My lap top computer, 17" remote monitor, a Starr brand receipt printer, and three Milwaukee cordless battery chargers that work off of the 800 watt inverter. For the most part it seems that the 17 inch monitor is the most thirsty of these components. When I unplug it, the cooling fan for the 800 watt inverter stops running. There are also TEN 3.2 amp 12volt LED light fixtures that are direct wired to the battery bank. I have 16 feet of flat roof to place panels on. I need to utilize flexible panels. My truck stands tall right now and adding 3 or inches to the height of it typical hard panels will need will most likely keep it from entering another building where it can be stored. The previous building I was in had it clear the upper door opening by only 2 inches.

My hope is that someone, or for this entire forum, will assess what I have for a current system. I envision a "cage match" where you all fight it out to finally suggest the correct solar components that will fit (TIE IN) with what is already functioning right now in my tool truck. Effectively I hope you will give me the exact brand and model number of every component needed so I can get solar power to run my mobile store. Ive included a picture of the electric control area and the switch panel so you see what is in play currently.

The current system was designed to have shore power used to recharge the batteries each night. I no longer have shore power available so often. The batteries can also be charged by the onboard diesel 8kw generator. Its expensive to run and too noisy most of the time to do so.

After I know what ACTUAL components to buy, I will go like gang busters and install all of that stuff you all carefully thought about to live happily ever after.
In a perfect world I would love a set up that was boxed and ready to go sans the installation. I CAN do the install. I dont think there is a boxed ready to go system so I am ready to buy individual components. I can do this if I KNOW the brand and part number of every component I should have. I dont know either the brands or what model numbers to buy so I am frozen in place.

This is a very real plea for help. I have a good working relationship with getting tasks done with direction aka a plan. I am not an engineer and do not have the mind of one. Im a good mechanic type. Please help me by designing a system for me that I can install....

 

[jbird526]

@mytoolman Few questions.
1) You mention the 17" monitor seems to use the bulk of the power. How old is the monitor? Can you upgrade to a newer, more efficient monitor? Saving power is simpler than creating it ... some times, most times.
2) You state you have (6) 6v 220ah FLA batts. Assuming you have them series / parallel to make 12v? So 6v x 220ah x 6 batts = 7920 watts. If FLA you should only have been drawing them down by 50% so really only 3960 watts of usable power daily? Is my math wrong here?
3) How much driving are you doing daily, assuming you are running between garages, dealerships, etc? Have you considered adding a DC to DC converter from the alternator? What is your alternator output?
4) Do you care about saving weight, as in going with LFP? You are hauling around tool chests and all the tools to go with them. I'm guessing weight is not the issue, rather capacity.
5) Where do you live? Do you get freezing temperatures? Assuming LFP with low temp cutoff, it won't charge at freezing temps without a heating pad.

Nice truck btw.

Not sure if this option may work for you but what about something like a Bluetti that you can take inside and charge overnight? Size depends ultimately on your power requirements.

 

[John Frum]

@mytoolman Few questions.

2) You state you have 6v 220ah FLA batts. Assuming you have them series / parallel to make 12v? So 6v x 220ah = 1320 watts. If FLA you should only have been drawing them down by 50% so really only 660 watts of usable power daily? Is my math wrong here? Seems like so little power.

assuming 2s3p
220 amp hours * 3 batteries = 660 amp hours
660 amp hours * .5 depth of discharge = 330 amps hours
330 amps hours * 12.6 nominal volts = 4158 watt hours

I do believe OP mentioned that the batteries are old and weak but I would see that value as a minimum value for the replacements.

Since you want batteries without delay I suggest these.

These show "sold out" but they are good replacement for what you have. https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/12v-400ah-lifepo4-battery-by-eg4

Suggest OP call them and see if the ETA is acceptable.

 

[jbird526]

Thanks @smoothJoey was updating the math in my post while you were replying. Yours is more precise anyway.
Its only 3:21pm and it's a long day already. Brain dead before evening...

 

[time2roll]

Are you inclined to buy cells and build a battery or purchase an LFP and drop it in?
The six golf batteries were giving you 600 amp hours usable... was that enough? Too much?
I would figure out the battery first.

 

[jbird526]

For the most part it seems that the 17 inch monitor is the most thirsty of these components.

Again check here for a possible upgrade on the monitor if it is truly using a lot of power. May be able to upgrade to a larger screen with less power usage.
https://www.energystar.gov/most-efficient/me-certified-computer-monitors/results

Those EG4 batts are going to be great in 12/24/48 once they can really stock them. With the reviews on those, one of the 12's would be an ideal setup.

 

[mytoolman]

@mytoolman Few questions.
1) You mention the 17" monitor seems to use the bulk of the power. How old is the monitor? Can you upgrade to a newer, more efficient monitor? Saving power is simpler than creating it ... some times, most times.
2) You state you have (6) 6v 220ah FLA batts. Assuming you have them series / parallel to make 12v? So 6v x 220ah x 6 batts = 7920 watts. If FLA you should only have been drawing them down by 50% so really only 3960 watts of usable power daily? Is my math wrong here?
3) How much driving are you doing daily, assuming you are running between garages, dealerships, etc? Have you considered adding a DC to DC converter from the alternator? What is your alternator output?
4) Do you care about saving weight, as in going with LFP? You are hauling around tool chests and all the tools to go with them. I'm guessing weight is not the issue, rather capacity.

Nice truck btw.

Not sure if this option may work for you but what about something like a Bluetti that you can take inside and charge overnight? Size depends ultimately on your power requirements.

Firstly jbird526 I so much appreciate the help guidance here. Also Thank you for the complement on "Ethyl" *THE* Tool Truck (ETTT) 1955 Ford C600 with ORIGINAL as it rolled out of Ford's Dearborn MI factory in December 1954 underpinnings and drive train.
answers to your queries:
1) The monitor is a 5 years old and the fan for the 800 watt inverter does not Always run....I just noticed if it does and I unplug the monitor the cooling fan immediately shuts off.
2) yes my batteries are in series/parallel to make 12Volts. I dont know about the math you suggestedd as this currently is above my pay grade.
3. When I am going strong I see 10 stops per day. I might put on 60 miles in a given day. I work about 10 hours in the truck per day and do the other stuff I need accomplished when you all are sleeping at home. This truck still has has a GENERATOR attached to its 66 year old 256cid Y block V8(GASOLINE)...so no an AC to DC converter will not be an answer here. I ALSO want to keep the original function under the hood of this truck....its a time capsule so I am NOT wanting to fabricate or buy a kit to install a new (fangled)alternator system
4. I would benefit by lightening the weight I am carrying but that is NOT a chief concern. Battery Capacity, not having to watch water levels, the smell of acid/Sulphur in the showroom area, and general better performance are what I seek in my next batteries.

Im not sure what a Bluetti is yet Ill google it but wanted to reply to you while the dialog would still be a thing....I park the truck a block away from my home and walk. Currently I carry my lunch box, and the laptop home while my boss the family dog guides me home. If it is transportable I would consider something like that Bluetti

 

[mytoolman]

assuming 2s3p
220 amp hours * 3 batteries = 660 amp hours
660 amp hours * .5 depth of discharge = 330 amps hours
330 amps hours * 12.6 nominal volts = 4158 watt hours

I do believe OP mentioned that the batteries are old and weak but I would see that value as a minimum value for the replacements.

Since you want batteries without delay I suggest these.

These show "sold out" but they are good replacement for what you have. https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/12v-400ah-lifepo4-battery-by-eg4

Suggest OP call them and see if the ETA is acceptable.

firstly THANK YOU smoothJoey.
YES my lead acid I guess the term is "float" batteries are 7 years old and are very weak. I have committed these sins which have no offer of absolution: . I haveover charged them. I have left them low of water I have left them under charged for periods. I killed them.
This OP will check out your suggestion.....
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/12v-400ah-lifepo4-battery-by-eg4

 

[mytoolman]

Are you inclined to buy cells and build a battery or purchase an LFP and drop it in?
The six golf batteries were giving you 600 amp hours usable... was that enough? Too much?
I would figure out the battery first.

Thank you time2roll. I think the capacity I have currently is more than just adequate. Once the building I stored ETTT in was without power for four days when the batteries were about a year old and they did not trigger the low charge battery alarm buzzer.....that buzzer is on after 2 hours now.

 

[mytoolman]

Are you inclined to buy cells and build a battery or purchase an LFP and drop it in?
The six golf batteries were giving you 600 amp hours usable... was that enough? Too much?
I would figure out the battery first.

I am inclined to buy cells and build a battery if it will save significant money. I am on my _ss for money. I have enough $'s to start back up and can use a credit card that is zero percent interest for a year to purchase a system which is not my favorite way to do things but will accomplish the goal with the current money situation at hand.

My current battery set up when new did not need recharging for four days. I have not added anything that would require more than what is in play currently. In a sentence: my current 600 amp hours usable is enough.

 

[mytoolman]

assuming 2s3p
220 amp hours * 3 batteries = 660 amp hours
660 amp hours * .5 depth of discharge = 330 amps hours
330 amps hours * 12.6 nominal volts = 4158 watt hours

I do believe OP mentioned that the batteries are old and weak but I would see that value as a minimum value for the replacements.

Since you want batteries without delay I suggest these.

These show "sold out" but they are good replacement for what you have. https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/12v-400ah-lifepo4-battery-by-eg4

Suggest OP call them and see if the ETA is acceptable.

Sir I see you have mentioned I have THREE 6volt batteries.....this is not correct. I have S I X 6volt batteries each is 220 amp hours
can you redo your calculations?

 

[John Frum]

Sir I see you have mentioned I have THREE 6volt batteries.....this is not correct. I have S I X 6volt batteries each is 220 amp hours
can you redo your calculations?

2s3p means
3 12 volt batteries in parallel.
Each of those batteries is composed of 2 6 volt batteries in series.
I stand by the math.

 

[mytoolman]

@mytoolman Few questions.
1) You mention the 17" monitor seems to use the bulk of the power. How old is the monitor? Can you upgrade to a newer, more efficient monitor? Saving power is simpler than creating it ... some times, most times.
2) You state you have (6) 6v 220ah FLA batts. Assuming you have them series / parallel to make 12v? So 6v x 220ah x 6 batts = 7920 watts. If FLA you should only have been drawing them down by 50% so really only 3960 watts of usable power daily? Is my math wrong here?
3) How much driving are you doing daily, assuming you are running between garages, dealerships, etc? Have you considered adding a DC to DC converter from the alternator? What is your alternator output?
4) Do you care about saving weight, as in going with LFP? You are hauling around tool chests and all the tools to go with them. I'm guessing weight is not the issue, rather capacity.
5) Where do you live? Do you get freezing temperatures? Assuming LFP with low temp cutoff, it won't charge at freezing temps without a heating pad.

Nice truck btw.

Not sure if this option may work for you but what about something like a Bluetti that you can take inside and charge overnight? Size depends ultimately on your power requirements.

1= Ill look into a new monitor or just eliminate it and just use my lap top. I hate its key board....and would rather see things on a bigger screen but right now Ill choose no expenditure over convenience.
2= I presume you know your math I do not know the formulas to check you
3=No possibility of using my engine to recharge Im sporting a 66 year old gas engine that has a gENERATOR still
4= Weight is not a concern although lightening the load has benefits. Im looking to eliminate maintenance and gain a safer situation by getting away from lead acid batteries.
5= I live in San Diego it might get to 30degrees F a few times per year here overnight. Otherwise it hovers around 68 degrees for about 275 days during daylight hours and 50 degrees at night

QUESTIONS::::: 1.) will the Bluetti 200 as per the link be powerful enough for what I need?

Amazon.com

2.) is there an adapter to reduce from 110 volt to TWELVE VOLTS to power my TEN 12v 3.2 each amp hour ceiling LED light fixtures?

I know I can plug in the other things like my printer and lap top right to the Bluetti. I would love to eliminate all the onboard batteries and instead have this Bluetti....Ill put it on a hand dolly and walk it home a block each night to plug it in and recharge it....

Amazon.com

 

[mytoolman]

2s3p means
3 12 volt batteries in parallel.
Each of those batteries is composed of 2 6 volt batteries in series.
I stand by the math.

2s3p means
3 12 volt batteries in parallel.
Each of those batteries is composed of 2 6 volt batteries in series.
I stand by the math.

after rereading all your posts I get it now. thank you. Im not sure how to figure out how many watt hours I am requiring with the use of my laptop, receipt printer and 17" monitor I guess what is required to work those things would be short of the available 4158 watt hours you have calculated my batteries are capable of if they were in working order.

 

[jbird526]

@mytoolman All of @smoothJoey's calculations are indeed correct. An inexpensive way to measure your usage is with one of these Killowatt

I have 2 of the Killowatt's that I have used around the house to measure usage. I like to get a reading over a week and divide by 7 to get an estimate over different conditions.

For the laptop, monitor and printer the Killowatt should work fine. Maybe plug all of those in your home and use to some degree as much as you would in the truck. A computer and monitor that go into sleep mode will use less so you have to account if you just plugged everything in and just let it sit with no usage.

For the LED lights that are hardwired, you may have to do some math based on how long they would be running during a days usage.

Anyone you ask here will always ask what is your energy audit. That is basically how much power you need. Most will not give you recommendations without that. You are not starting from scratch though and what you had in batteries has worked for in the past so it would seem if you build to at least those specs, you will be fine. No one wants you to spend more than you have to though if not needed.

The big question as @smoothJoey calculated was the 4158 watt hours that you had. So were you using all of that or a smaller number? With your failing batteries were you actually using 2500 watts a day and getting by? Only an energy audit will really tell you how much you need.

 

[jbird526]

Another issue you mentioned is necessity to use flexible panels. They are expensive and most aren't that good. From what I have seen on sailboats the only that are recommended are Sunpower. A Sunpower 170watt will cost you $425 on Amazon. If you CAN get the clearance and use glass panels, you could head up to Chino and buy these 365watt for $263 at these dimensions 72.91 x 39.21 x 1.38 in. A1solar

 

[mytoolman]

Mr jbird526 you sir are a God send. So are all the others that have responded. I will get a Kilowatt measurement device to take an inventory...its a tool....I can put it in my inventory....when there are finger prints on stuff from my use, I charge MORE for tools..after all the tool now has "experience" and we all get raises in our pay when we have experience... my customers have learned not to ask me about any finger prints....

Out of a typical ten hour work day, I probably only spend 4 hours in my store...the rest of the time is spent driving to shops and walking through shops to "tote and promote". T&P is where I bring a bag full of goodies and talk about them and maybe sell some. My walk through is mainly to see what guys need and to get them to pay for what they have already purchased, to pay down their tool balances.

While I am out of the store the lights and monitor are turned off. There is very minimal power usage happening when Im not in the store. Things like the Milwaukee cordless tool, Streamlight flashlight , and any other rechargeable lights I have battery chargers plugged in for stay powered up so the inverter is on for my 10 hours out. I switch it off at night when the truck is parked at home.

ts been a year and a half since I was active on my route with the tool truck. That is the main reason the current batteries are dead and why my funds are so messed up. Covid related stuff and other blockers have played havoc with my business responsibilities. Family related responsibilities took a 90/10 mix instead of something like the usual 30/70 when I can make money.

I dont see how I can go with glass traditional solar fixtures. My exhaust fan on top of the truck has a plastic cover that I can raise when the fan is needed. The guys call it a 'fart" fan. That cover has been torn off the truck twice in the past when I forgot to close it before entering the building I used to store ETTT in. There was like 1/2" of room between it closed and a typical 16 foot high door opening frame found in most shops. My truck measures 13 foot high...Ill remeasure the height today. To complicate stuff I will be changing wheels on the rear soon. I will be going to a larger size of wheel but can compensate with the side wall size (aspect ratio) to get the same height. I need the tires to be as tall as they are to keep the current gear ratio the truck works with as it is to pull its current 16k load.

I like the Bluetti AC200 (@ Amazon for $1,600) I guess we will have to do a power assessment to verify it will be adequate. The AC200 weighs 60 lbs so I could move it between the truck and my garage to recharge it everyday if I cant get solar panels done. I have a folding hand truck that I already use for toting and promoting tools so it can get some more work duty if I go this route.

Thank you so much for the hand holding providing links and name brands/model numbers and WHERE to buy them this is EXACTLY what I need to get this handled. Im getting excited...my re start looks like it can happen....I need to run my business, I am a terrible employee.

 

[jbird526]

Glad I could be of some help to you @mytoolman. Use to work at a bodyshop myself so have known a few tool guys over the years, Mac, Snap-On, Cornwell, etc. I did mostly blast work but have done body work on my own vehicles as I learned.

Definitely get a power audit and google different "solar generators" or "portable power stations" as there are many different units popping up and hopefully one will meet your needs. I know it may be a pain lugging a 60lb battery unit around but better than trying to move an 8K genny. If all else fails and you can occasionally use a vehicle other than your tool truck, a portable solution may come in handy.

 

[mytoolman]

Mr. jbird526,
Body shop guys are some of my most interesting customers. The skill and actual artistry they employ stops me in tracts often.
Lol on lugging 450lbs of Power Tech 8kw generator! Mine is mounted as a fixed unit on a fancy slide out tray built into ETTT.

As soon as my Kilowatt measuring tool arrives I do the energy audit so we can get down to brass tacks

I must proceed I had to run my Power Tech 8kw generator all day yesterday in my outting. I only broke even or lost a little $ when comparing profit generated to actual expenses yesterday. It was gr8 to work though.

 

[mytoolman]

Hi Guys
Here are the ENERGY AUDIT RESULTS: I ran the 120 volt office electronics audit for 16:08 hours/0.61 kWh *** 0.36 WATTS/50 VA *** 0.42 AMPS *** 59.9 Hz/0.74 PF using ***120volts
These results were with the Monitor, Receipt Printer, Laptop, and two cordless battery tool chargers that started out with flat batteries plugged into the Killawatt Meter and my homes wall outlet. I figure my computer, monitor and printer will be powered up 10 hours per day since Im not likely to turn them on and off like I would when I flip off the light switch when I leave the truck.

Thinking this through more, To preserve power, I could just turn off the 120 Volt 6 outlet power strip everything is plugged into and that would power down all my electronics except the laptop which has its own battery.....

NOT included in this test were the TEN ceiling MAXXIMA model M84426 LED light fixtures that are hardwired into the present battery bank. EACH LED 1200 Lumen Light Draw 12.8V = 1.32 amp, A typical day the lights are in use between 3 and 5 hours. I called MAXXIMA and the engineer there told me the Ten LED fixtures use .80 kWh in 5 hours

I like the idea of using a Bluetti stand alone type Portable Solar Generator to replace my current bank of Float batteries if that is possible. Im inclined to go for something like the Bluetti AC200MAX. It looks like folks use this in their living situations where they plug in appliances AND the same office type electronics I use with this unit and it supplies their power for long periods of time.

Is a Bluetti AC200MAX a viable solution for me? Can I get more that one day use from the AC200MAX before I have to lug it out of my truck to charge it on a 120 wall outlet?

What will two 100watt solar panels do for me using the Bluetti?