I hate lead acid, but can't get away from it!

[HighTechLab]

As most everyone here knows, I love lithium...even started a company selling it! This however doesn't mean I haven't had my share of bad run ins with lead-acid. While I take every opportunity to ditch lead-acid, every single one of my vehicles still has one, and even my 1997 forklift that we use daily has one.

My concern for this thread is mainly for the forklift. We really can't get rid of the 5000 LB FLA battery, because Lithium is not heavy enough, and even if I filled the rest of the space with things like concrete, steel, etc. it still wouldn't be as heavy as the battery made of lead as the density of lead is much higher. We are sorta stuck for now.

Anyway, to the point now...Over on another thread I was reading a suggestion on watering - "Only add water to max level AFTER fully charged."

Is this true for all cases, not to add water until charging has completed? What's the logic here? I've always added water to this lift when I first put it on the charger, thinking the charge cycle (and bubbling throughout the process) mixes the fresh water throughout the cell. What's the best practice here and the reasoning?

 

[Samsonite801]

Can you put in AGM where the flooded lead acid was? I put in a pair of Northstar NSB-AGM-31M in my motorhome (for the chassis batteries) and they are rated at 900 cycles (@ 50% DoD), and 1150 CCA with 102Ah reserve, and sealed, no water to fill. Don't worry, they're still heavy as hell though...

There has to be some sealed alternative. I don't like having to care about checking water.

 

[Samsonite801]

Anyway, to the point now...Over on another thread I was reading a suggestion on watering - "Only add water to max level AFTER fully charged."

Is this true for all cases, not to add water until charging has completed? What's the logic here? I've always added water to this lift when I first put it on the charger, thinking the charge cycle (and bubbling throughout the process) mixes the fresh water throughout the cell. What's the best practice here and the reasoning?

If it were me though, and I saw bare exposed plates (really low water), I wouldn't charge it up first, I would fill it at least to cover the plates, then get the battery up to charge, and do an equalize (or several), in a row to get those cells bubbling a lot... I wouldn't leave exposed plates and try to charge it.

Maybe what they are really meaning to say is, after done charging/equalizing make sure to top it off at the end, since the charge/equalize may've evaporated a bunch more water you thought you had done filled before, so always check it a last time before calling it done?

 

[pollenface]

If i saw exposed plates i would cover them regardless.

 

[pvdude]

I can't find the link right now, but the Rolls FLA I have need to be charged before adding water.
The instructions (that I can't find) explained that the electrolyte level drops a bit when discharged, and raises when charged.
The idea was that if filled when discharged, charging would raise the level too much, possibly overflowing a bit.

 

[OzSolar]

Is this true for all cases, not to add water until charging has completed? What's the logic here?

It's because the more charged a FLA battery is the higher the electrolyte volume is. The charging process drives the electrolyte out of the plates that was previously absorbed into them during the discharge cycle. Of course, add just enough water to cover the plates before you start the charge cycle and never top it off until you are sure its fully charged.

 

[OzSolar]

I can't find the link right now, but the Rolls FLA I have need to be charged before adding water.
The instructions (that I can't find) explained that the electrolyte level drops a bit when discharged, and raises when charged.
The idea was that if filled when discharged, charging would raise the level too much, possibly overflowing a bit.

Probably thinking about this guy. I use it often. One of the best out there.

 

[time2roll]

Certainly the plates need covered. I understand the electrolyte will expand during charging. Depending on how full is full it could risk pushing some electrolyte out the cap resulting in additional corrosion. Check levels before and after to see what your actual situation and results might change your procedures.

A watering system really takes the chore out of watering and adds safety to the process.

 

[pvdude]

A watering system really takes the chore out of watering and adds safety to the process.

After a couple of times watering w/o a manifold/pump system, I was convinced to upgrade!

 

[grizzzman]

There is another side to this. (assuming plates have water over them ) To truly know that the battery is fully charged you need to check the electrolyte with a hydrometer. Adding water would dilute the reading if not fully charged.

 

[OzSolar]

There is another side to this. (assuming plates have water over them ) To truly know that the battery is fully charged you need to check the electrolyte with a hydrometer. Adding water would dilute the reading if not fully charged.

And that's a great point.
1- Always keep an eye on SG
2- Don't bother checking the SG until at least few charge cycles have happened after the last time you added water

I prefer refractometers over bulb style hydrometers.

 

[Prince Of Darkness]

Most FLA forklift batteries, have a small electrolyte reserve (the distance twix the tops of the plates, and the top of the vent tube).

SO, when the battery gasses, during late Bulk, and Absorb/EQ, the electrolyte level rises. Charging, also heats the electrolyte, so that, too causes the level to rise more. The cells are jammed together, so heating can be fairly extreme at the end of Absorb, and especially EQ.

Forklift batts are usually quite tall, however, so this exaggerates stratification, so adding water, late in the charge, or at the end, can result in the added distilled water, to not be mixed into the electrolyte. WIth aging FLAs, with plate erosion, which often results in the plate bottoms being eroded away, it can become difficult to get the makeup water mixed into the electrolyte, even in the next charge cycle.

The main reason that some advise not adding water at the beginning of a charge cycle, is due to the risk of electrolyte overflow.

So, like many things, it is a balance.

For our FLAs, which have a 3.75" electrolyte reserve, we add water, about midway through Absorb. Most forklift batts, generally have about half of that amount of reserve ...

All IMO, POD

 

[Vigo]

Just to point out.. nearly ALL vehicle fluid reservoirs/dipsticks have markings for hot and cold. The 'unmixed'/'stratified' SG of electrolyte you just dumped water into is one thing (very valid imo) but just in general, if a fluid system is not 100% efficient (hmmm) then it will put heat into the fluid, and the fluid level will show differently after running the system.

 

[jberger]

You never want the plates to be uncovered, so top up to at least the top of the plate before you charge. Then charge the battery and let it settle before adding more water to the fill line.
The electrolyte will expand when charged, so it's easy to overfill if you add water to a depleted cell.
I never worried too much about stratification, once you apply a charge, you should hear the electrolyte mixing unless it's at an extremely low charge rate.

What people normally do is fill a low cell to the top, then put it on the charger and walk away, the electrolyte leaks out and gets into the cables in addition to making a mess.

Be super careful with those battery fill devices, it's easy for the little floats to get stuck and end up starving a cell for water. Happens on golf carts and RV's all the time. By the time you notice it's not getting water, the entire battery is toast and now you've got a real expense on your hands.

 

[Bleedingblue]

As most everyone here knows, I love lithium...even started a company selling it! This however doesn't mean I haven't had my share of bad run ins with lead-acid. While I take every opportunity to ditch lead-acid, every single one of my vehicles still has one, and even my 1997 forklift that we use daily has one.

My concern for this thread is mainly for the forklift. We really can't get rid of the 5000 LB FLA battery, because Lithium is not heavy enough, and even if I filled the rest of the space with things like concrete, steel, etc. it still wouldn't be as heavy as the battery made of lead as the density of lead is much higher. We are sorta stuck for now.

Anyway, to the point now...Over on another thread I was reading a suggestion on watering - "Only add water to max level AFTER fully charged."

Is this true for all cases, not to add water until charging has completed? What's the logic here? I've always added water to this lift when I first put it on the charger, thinking the charge cycle (and bubbling throughout the process) mixes the fresh water throughout the cell. What's the best practice here and the reasoning?

I always added water after charged because during the charge the water level rises. I had auto water valves on my Trojans. Made life way easier when I had 24 of the Trojan L16eac.

 

[MilkMan]

5000 lbs is really heavy but I'm sure your lifting heavy pallets of batteries!

My forklift requires a battery weighing between 2175 and 2645 lbs with a 3200 lb lifting capacity. It was a 36v 875Ah FLA. Anyway, I managed to hit a little over 2200 lbs using iron kettlebells, some random pieces of scrap steel, and concrete.

Finished my 23 kWh LiFePO4 36v Forklift battery

My forklift's 36v 875Ah FLA battery was barely managing to unload a truck before dying. My new 23 kWh LiFePO4 battery is in and is functioning correctly so far. It should give me about 75% of the capacity that a new FLA would give me. Price wise I'm in it about $5,300 compared to almost $7,000...

diysolarforum.com

To your original question, I always added water after charging. I had read that the acid/water expands when fully charged and adding water before a charge could cause a spillover.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Lead batteries have served humankind for many years. We should be grateful, not hateful, right? Only warm farewells.
Maybe 8 years with FLA Trojans (T105’s?) I don’t remember any issues filling as long as I stopped when the surface tension changed when reaching the base of the port…

 

[Delmar]

For the truly lazy (spoken from personal experience) the Trojan Hydrolink system is about as easy as it gets. Just clip on the hose, stick into a bottle and give it a good squeeze or few. I occasionally pull the covers to confirm the level and there has never been a low cell.

Just don't be too lazy to remove the water bottle when it freezes outside. I have only done that a couple of times.