Inverter Charger recommendations for RV Trailer

[TheHotCarl]

Hey everyone, dug through the forums (among elsewhere) and can’t seem to get a consistent answer (if that exists). I’m ‘upgrading’ my rv trailer to be able to run 110 loads when my generator isn’t on. I swapped out the lead acid battery for two renogy 100ah ‘smart’ lithium ones and had a renogy 2000w inverter charger in order until I read multiple threads of how this particular inverter doesn’t pass through a full 30a and loses all of its settings when batteries are disconnected. Both of those things are important and during the summer in Tx, we run the generator most of the time because A/C is a necessity. The disconnect is also a requirement as the trailer isn’t constant use, but is sitting on our hunting lease for sometimes weeks at a time and I can’t have the vampire drain of the inverter (or other things) killing the battery. It’s also a safety issue to keep things disconnected when it’s unattended. I’m looking for recommendations for an inverter charger in the 2-3kW range that has a full 30a pass through and cutover switch, and retains any settings if disconnected from 12 source. Right now I’m eyeing a victron multiplus 2000VA and a Xantrex freedom XC 2000w model…however I can’t find any documentation on them being able to retain settings after disconnection from 12v load. Alternatively, separate inverter and charger is doable, but I’d have to dig into how to wire the transfer switch so my wife or kids doesn’t turn on the genny and fry something when the main panel is connected to the inverter output. For clarity, the current plan is to take incoming shore power through a breaker and to the inverter charger, then take the output from there to the main panel where everything comes off of. No plans to run a/c or heavy loads when on battery, but want the ability to run the rest of the camper without the genny constantly on when weather is nice.

 

[RoadTurtle]

Did you look at multiplus?

 

[TheHotCarl]

Did you look at multiplus?

One of the ones I have been eyeing is the multiplus 12/2000/50-80. However there is a new and ‘old’ model now and I can’t find any documentation on them as to whether they retain settings when disconnected from 12v. I’m going to call up victron tomorow and ask what (if any) differences are between the old and new and about settings retention, but was looking to see if anyone had first hand experience with one of these (xantrex freedom xc was another potential) or something that did retain settings and have a legit pass through for shore power (renogy apparently fails here).

 

[HRTKD]

For a 30 amp system, the Multiplus 12/3000-120 is probably what you want. The 3000 number is volt amps, not watts. The effective watt number is 2400. This is the unit I have in my toy hauler with a single air conditioning unit. I can run the air conditioner off of my 560 Ah LiFePO4 battery bank for about three hours.

The Multiplus has been a very reliable component in my system.

 

[TheHotCarl]

For a 30 amp system, the Multiplus 12/3000-120 is probably what you want. The 3000 number is volt amps, not watts. The effective watt number is 2400. This is the unit I have in my toy hauler with a single air conditioning unit. I can run the air conditioner off of my 560 Ah LiFePO4 battery bank for about three hours.

The Multiplus has been a very reliable component in my system.

I was under the assumption that VA was relatively equivalent to W…but I guess that was a bad assumption. Does the 12/3000 multiplus retain battery type and other settings when you pull the battery disconnect in the trailer?

 

[HRTKD]

I was under the assumption that VA was relatively equivalent to W…but I guess that was a bad assumption. Does the 12/3000 multiplus retain battery type and other settings when you pull the battery disconnect in the trailer?

Yes. While I haven't disconnected mine very often, I have cut power a couple of times since the original install. My batteries stay in my camper all year. My PV system keeps them charged and I have a warming system to keep the LiFePO4 batteries above 35°F.

 

[TheHotCarl]

Yes. While I haven't disconnected mine very often, I have cut power a couple of times since the original install. My batteries stay in my camper all year. My PV system keeps them charged and I have a warming system to keep the LiFePO4 batteries above 35°F.

When you did cut power did it retain any settings for battery type and charge amps, etc.?

 

[Tomthumb62]

When you did cut power did it retain any settings for battery type and charge amps, etc.?

Not the person you’re replying to, but I now own a Victron charger and inverter (separate units cause cheaper not a combo unit like the multiplus) and both units retain all settings when disconnected from power. I really like that. And their app Victron Connect works for all their devices that are Bluetooth or otherwise connected through the VE Direct network system.

I can’t imagine that the Multiplus doesn’t retain settings like their other devices.

Something to consider also is idle draw. This is the draw your device uses just to be powered on. The biggest culprit is always the inverter. Our previous Renogy 2000W inverter (not a combo inverter charger) had an idle draw of 24W. Our newer Victron 12/1200 (1000W) draws 9W on regular mode and 1W on Eco mode. I tested the Eco mode with no load connected for 24 hours and the average draw was 0.6W. Victron has arguably the lowest idle draw of inverters out there.

If you intend to turn off your inverter when not using it, idle draw is less important, but if you have it powered 24/7 like for a fridge, then it really adds up. With the Renogy, the idle draw was using 40% of our battery every single day, which didn’t leave much left over to power our fridge.

Edit: Looks like the Multiplus 12/3000 120 had an idle draw of 20W on regular, 15W on AES mode and 8W on Eco mode. Even on the regular mode, that’s very good for a 2400W inverter.

Also, the 3000VA/2400W thing depends upon the power factor of the connected load. I don’t recall the specifics, but things like a resistance load like an electric heater will have a PF of 1.0, giving you 1:1 VA:W, meaning you could get a full 3000W from the said Multiplus. A device like fridge typically has a PF of 0.7-0.8, giving you an available wattage of 2100-2400W. AFAIK, it’s much more complicated than that, but it gives you some more info that it depends upon type of loads.

 

[TheHotCarl]

Not the person you’re replying to, but I now own a Victron charger and inverter (separate units cause cheaper not a combo unit like the multiplus) and both units retain all settings when disconnected from power. I really like that. And their app Victron Connect works for all their devices that are Bluetooth or otherwise connected through the VE Direct network system.

I can’t imagine that the Multiplus doesn’t retain settings like their other devices.

Something to consider also is idle draw. This is the draw your device uses just to be powered on. The biggest culprit is always the inverter. Our previous Renogy 2000W inverter (not a combo inverter charger) had an idle draw of 24W. Our newer Victron 12/1200 (1000W) draws 9W on regular mode and 1W on Eco mode. I tested the Eco mode with no load connected for 24 hours and the average draw was 0.6W. Victron has arguably the lowest idle draw of inverters out there.

If you intend to turn off your inverter when not using it, idle draw is less important, but if you have it powered 24/7 like for a fridge, then it really adds up. With the Renogy, the idle draw was using 40% of our battery every single day, which didn’t leave much left over to power our fridge.

Thanks for the input…the idle draw was another reason I’m cancelling my renogy 2k unit. Most of the time when we don’t have the generator in we are using minimal power and I don’t need the inverter eating up that much doing nothing.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Thanks for the input…the idle draw was another reason I’m cancelling my renogy 2k unit. Most of the time when we don’t have the generator in we are using minimal power and I don’t need the inverter eating up that much doing nothing.

You replied just as I was editing my reply. You might want to go back and read my additional comments.

 

[HRTKD]

When you did cut power did it retain any settings for battery type and charge amps, etc.?

No, the settings were not lost. If you were concerned that the settings could be lost, export the settings using the VictronConnect app (or PC application) and then import the settings later.

 

[Odom1957]

I would get the Multiplus 2 3000, and put a solar panel on the roof with a small charge controller and never turn the thing off, even though the Victron inverter/chargers save their settings. The Victron stuff uses very little power when idle, so a simple solar panel would keep it from draining the batteries.

 

[Jbuck]

For a 30 amp system, the Multiplus 12/3000-120 is probably what you want. The 3000 number is volt amps, not watts. The effective watt number is 2400. This is the unit I have in my toy hauler with a single air conditioning unit. I can run the air conditioner off of my 560 Ah LiFePO4 battery bank for about three hours.

The Multiplus has been a very reliable component in my system.

I recently set up 800 watt bifacial solar panels (4-200 watt) in series and parallel to a 60 amp Renogy charge controller, then into 4-100ah lifepo4 battery bank wired in a perfectly balanced parallel using 4/0 pure copper welding cable, then that is run through a 500amp shunt from battery through shunt into a buss bar from buss bar into a 3000 watt Renogy inverter with 2/0 pure copper welding wire/cable (positive is run with same wire into inverter. I have resettable fuses, battery isolaters and breakers through out the circuit but when I went to run my RV for the first time with it (converter was run to its own breaker and I have it shut off) but my AC went to kick on and it trips the Gf on my inverter. I do have a soft start installed actually an ICM870 which is the same thing we’ve just been using them in server rooms for hvac units that may transfer to batteries before Genny in the event of a power outage. I think I’m stumped or I’m a dumbass because I overlooked grounding to the chassis of my RV being focused on everything else during my build. Would not being grounded to my chassis cause ground fault trip on my inverter and cause my AC (1-13.5k btu) to shut down my inverter like it’s doing? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[HRTKD]

I recently set up 800 watt bifacial solar panels (4-200 watt) in series and parallel to a 60 amp Renogy charge controller, then into 4-100ah lifepo4 battery bank wired in a perfectly balanced parallel using 4/0 pure copper welding cable, then that is run through a 500amp shunt from battery through shunt into a buss bar from buss bar into a 3000 watt Renogy inverter with 2/0 pure copper welding wire/cable (positive is run with same wire into inverter. I have resettable fuses, battery isolaters and breakers through out the circuit but when I went to run my RV for the first time with it (converter was run to its own breaker and I have it shut off) but my AC went to kick on and it trips the Gf on my inverter. I do have a soft start installed actually an ICM870 which is the same thing we’ve just been using them in server rooms for hvac units that may transfer to batteries before Genny in the event of a power outage. I think I’m stumped or I’m a dumbass because I overlooked grounding to the chassis of my RV being focused on everything else during my build. Would not being grounded to my chassis cause ground fault trip on my inverter and cause my AC (1-13.5k btu) to shut down my inverter like it’s doing? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have everything grounded according to what is called for in the manual. So both the inverter and the air conditioner are ground to the chassis. I can't say if the lack of ground is your issue or not.

My Mach 15 says it's rated for 19 amps (AC), but that's not the surge amps. It's running from my Multiplus (2400 watts), so I'm surprised that yours isn't running from a 3,000 watt inverter.

 

[TheHotCarl]

I recently set up 800 watt bifacial solar panels (4-200 watt) in series and parallel to a 60 amp Renogy charge controller, then into 4-100ah lifepo4 battery bank wired in a perfectly balanced parallel using 4/0 pure copper welding cable, then that is run through a 500amp shunt from battery through shunt into a buss bar from buss bar into a 3000 watt Renogy inverter with 2/0 pure copper welding wire/cable (positive is run with same wire into inverter. I have resettable fuses, battery isolaters and breakers through out the circuit but when I went to run my RV for the first time with it (converter was run to its own breaker and I have it shut off) but my AC went to kick on and it trips the Gf on my inverter. I do have a soft start installed actually an ICM870 which is the same thing we’ve just been using them in server rooms for hvac units that may transfer to batteries before Genny in the event of a power outage. I think I’m stumped or I’m a dumbass because I overlooked grounding to the chassis of my RV being focused on everything else during my build. Would not being grounded to my chassis cause ground fault trip on my inverter and cause my AC (1-13.5k btu) to shut down my inverter like it’s doing? Any advice would be greatly

You mention the inverter having its own breaker. Are you referring to shore power coming into the main panel and one breaker powers the inverter, or the shore power coming in and going to the inverter and it has a separate load panel after the inverter? Are you trying to run the a/c off of the inverter in a bypass mode with shore power?

 

[TheHotCarl]

I would get the Multiplus 2 3000, and put a solar panel on the roof with a small charge controller and never turn the thing off, even though the Victron inverter/chargers save their settings. The Victron stuff uses very little power when idle, so a simple solar panel would keep it from draining the batteries.

I’m looking to permanently mount my panels soon (right now it’s a ground array), and it should work while my trailer is set up in the open, but I worried about when it goes into covered storage during the off-season. I guess I could get a small 20w panel and stick it on the tongue of the trailer where it’s not totally covered during those times though. I’ll just have to understand the real idle power consumption once installed and size that auxiliary panel accordingly.

 

[justinm001]

All victron inverters retain settings if power is lost. Actually, when you update settings using VEconfig or update the device I think it fully resets itself.

VA isn't W for inductive loads like AC its 80% other things are higher percentage.

Nothing compares to Victron, sure they're more but they're worth it. I personally couldn't imagine leaving a system off and hoping everything works after winter. If I were you and had wifi wherever I stored it, I'd have a CerboGX and a couple of those 20w or a spare 100w panel and just toss it on the roof of the trailer above the cover. Leave everything on and feel comfortable knowing its all working and i'll get an email if batteries are low. randomly check the app just to be sure its all good.

 

[Tomthumb62]

the idle draw was another reason I’m cancelling my renogy 2k unit.

One more tip about the Eco mode on the Victron inverters. Eco mode doesn’t work in all applications. You program it and every X seconds, it offers power for Y seconds. It searches for a load, min/max load requirements are programmable. For our analog thermostat fridge, it works, but when I tried it out on our digital Samsung home fridge, it doesn’t work because every cycle of searching by the Victron acts like a hard reset to the fridge (not a problem in an analog fridge). My point being is if the extremely low idle draw of the Eco mode is a major selling point for you, do some research first to confirm it will work for your situation. Samlex inverters also offer low idle consumption, but some of their models are even pricier.

 

[Odom1957]

Victron units use so little power that the eco mode is not worth it in most cases. A simple small portable solar panel can offset the consumption from a Victron.

 

[TheHotCarl]

All victron inverters retain settings if power is lost. Actually, when you update settings using VEconfig or update the device I think it fully resets itself.

VA isn't W for inductive loads like AC its 80% other things are higher percentage.

Nothing compares to Victron, sure they're more but they're worth it. I personally couldn't imagine leaving a system off and hoping everything works after winter. If I were you and had wifi wherever I stored it, I'd have a CerboGX and a couple of those 20w or a spare 100w panel and just toss it on the roof of the trailer above the cover. Leave everything on and feel comfortable knowing its all working and i'll get an email if batteries are low. randomly check the app just to be sure its all good.

I’m still coming around to a different mindset from the old lead acid where I pull the disconnect and store it (after the other pre-storage procedures). I guess I have to rethink things with a lithium system with the inverter. Unfortunately most of the storage places don’t have WiFi so that’s a bust, but I generally check things maybe once a month or so…so could probably catch things, especially once I know what a steady state idle draw is. Generally all of the other appliances are turned off (fridge etc) but I had always just pulled the disconnect to prevent any phantom draw.