MisterSandals
Participation Medalist
This is getting confusing discussing your system and JanC's system in the same thread.
You should start a thread where YOUR questions can be answered without trampling on this thread.
Is 91.24 Voc of panels combined okay for a 100/50 smartsolar?
- Thread starter JanC
- Start date
You should start a thread where YOUR questions can be answered without trampling on this thread.
So I'm planning to build something like a tiny home solar design for daily use. The main goal for this solar system is to power one medium size AC fridge all throughout the year, but perhaps I would be okay even if there are extreme winter time conditions where I need to unplug the fridge for some time. The other things I want to power are- charging a laptop, charging 2 phones, some lights, portable hotspot router, charging a flashlight, and occasional use of a printer. I already bought this-
| R114 | Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/50 Solar charge controller | €332.43 | 1 | €332.43 |
| AC700 | MC4 Weidmuller Solar Connectors | €4.53 | 1 | €4.53 |
| AC702 | MC4 Y Weidmuller Solar Connectors | €17.71 | 1 | €17.71 |
| AC1021 | Victron Smart Battery Sense Long Range Battery Sensor | €40.29 | 1 | €40.29 |
| MS17 | Q-Cells 485w Q.Peak ML-G11 Monocrystalline Solar Panel | €182.22 | 2 | €364.44 |
I chose that controller, because I wanted to do somewhat higher quality panels with the controller and there are not many shops in Portugal to choose from, and the delivery is not cheap, so I wanted to order the most I can out of one shop. Also they had a 23% discount for those panels ending in a few days, so that's why I ordered them. If I wanted to go over 50 A with the Victron controller, it would cost about 200 € more for the controller. If I went with a 12v battery bank, it would cost me about 400€ more for the controller. And I found a good deal on a 24v battery - https://www.elkersolutions.com/product/lifepo4-24v-100ah/ . I only plan to buy this one 100ah battery for the time being.
I really like this inverter- https://www.leroymerlin.pt/produtos...rsor-xunzel-xj-2000w-24v-c-cabo-81908435.html, but it's slightly more expensive than I would prefer. But I think it would be better to have a higher quality inverter considering I'm planning to power a fridge with it 24/7.
This is the rest of the things I'm planning to order - https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Blade-12-Circuit/dp/B000THQ0CQ?th=1
- https://www.amazon.com/Cllena-Conve...2401225&sprefix=dc+to+dc+,aps,239&sr=8-9&th=1
-https://www.amazon.com/Cllena-Cigarette-Lighter-Splitter-Switches/dp/B091FR8GZD/ref=sr_1_5?crid=M8FQFQPXA7HM&keywords=cllena+dc+outlet&qid=1672660149&sprefix=cllena+dc+out%2Caps%2C605&sr=8-5
- some DC outlet for my 12v kettle
- DC lights
- all the wires plus some tools for crimping etc
I understand why you made the order when you did, just wish you came back to the forum before making this purchase.
Is there still time to change the order, or was it shipped already? How far is this store from your place?
Agree, 24V makes more sense here everything considered.
Btw, you might want to check this battery instead, it's just a better deal overall. It's a good battery with a 5-year warranty, good customer support, free and fast shipping, and no import taxes considering you are from Portugal.
https://www.ipowerqueen.de/en/products/power-queen-25-6v-100ah-lifepo4-akku?variant=43507087835356.
There's also a 3% discount code somewhere on their site, in case you are interested. Their store is cheaper, but there's also an Amazon.de option if you prefer that.
Haven't seen that one before. A bit pricey but is it any good? Reviews?
Also, did you measure how much that fridge pulls?
Best,
D.
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I made a post a while ago in "Off-grid living advice" category. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/ac-vs-dc-fridges-for-off-grid-use.50973/#post-647800 . I got some good advice there and since then I changed a lot of my plans for the solar system.
The order's just being prepared for shipping. What exactly would you change about that order? Does the items seems too expensive for you?
I already bought the battery. I hope it's not that different to your recommendation. Mine has shorter warranty but also is a little cheaper.
That Xunzel inverter seems pretty good on paper. I think it's a spanish brand. They state about 95% efficiency and only 14 watts no load current. Also it's available in a store very close to me. The 12v version has a few reviews here that are pretty good https://www.leroymerlin.pt/produtos...pura-xunzel-xj-series-2000w-12v-16501765.html , Also they say minimal recommended battery is 240Ah - 24v. Do you know why would they say this?
I found some chinese inverters, but I have a feeling that for powering a fridge 24/7 it's better to have something more efficient and reliable.
That's a great thread, lots of excellent advice there.
In there I saw you've mentioned that you have a specific budget for this solar build and that you are looking to build this system once, no thoughts on further expansions?
Fundamentally, the concerns I have in regard to your solar system component selection can be all traced back to your solar panels.
It leads to, either changing the panels or the SCC.
Specifically, the panel in question has a high Voc at STC, too close to 100/50 limits for comfort in the winter period.
Since you've decided to go with a 24V system voltage, for a good performance all around you want two panels in series.
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Here is the link to the shop and their panel selection - https://www.solarshop.pt/gb/photovoltaic-solar-panels
Why would connecting the panels in series make such a difference for the production? When I looked into it, it seemed there is only a minimal difference. In my situation, there are a few trees here and there that might occasionally shade on one panel and then on the other one, so a parallel connection might be even more beneficial in this situation.
About the future expansion - I know almost everybody starts low on the solar system and expands later, but me and my girlfriend are somewhat different. Maybe it's a blasphemy to say this in a solar forum, but we're trying to rely as little on modern technology as we can. We're building a self sustainable farm and are trying to get rid of anything that makes us dependent on the money. So it means we plan to go even lower with our electricity consumption. But it's a long process, and that's why we're building this solar system now. And also our plan is to take care of our basic needs without money so we won't be earning much and that means no money for expansion.
So with regards to that inverter, do you think it's a good choice, or you know of some better option? I haven't bought the fridge yet but when I researched it a few weeks ago, it looked like their daily consumption should be about 800-900w/24h. I don't know about the surge input, they don't say it anyway. But I hope a 2000w inverter should be enough for a 150-200 liter fridge.
Living the dream, nothing wrong with that.
Taking into consideration that you do not have any intention to upgrade the solar array or the battery storage capacity in the future or spend any more money on this in general, my suggestion would be to focus on building the best solar system possible within your specific circumstances, with as much solar power as possible for a bit more investment than already planned to get started.
Temperature, Voltage drop, panel degradation over time, and so on.
My suggestion is a 150/35A SCC with 4x 485W Q-cell panels 2s 2p.
Everything considered this is the cheapest way to modify your component selection and get the most out of your investment and full use of your components.
It's an expensive one, but if the reviews you've read are saying it's a good and reliable inverter. It's probably a good choice.
Regardless of the price of an inverter, when buying one your focus should be on the customer reviews and the quality of customer support of the company.
Best,
D.
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I understand the cost can be a deciding factor here, just in case.
The bare minimum of my suggestion,
150/35 SCC
2x 485W half-cut panels in series
It's very important to take special care in mounting and orienting these panels properly.
I hope you'll consider 4x485W over this.
Best,
D.
The bare minimum of my suggestion,
150/35 SCC
2x 485W half-cut panels in series
It's very important to take special care in mounting and orienting these panels properly.
I hope you'll consider 4x485W over this.
Best,
D.
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I appreciate all the info you've given, but the order's been already shipped today so it would be difficult to change now and I don't really want to mess with it.
The thing I don't understand from your post is about the 150/35 SCC. I cannot really go higher with the panels because of our budget, but wouldn't this controller be insufficient with the 35A limit? Right now I have 970w ÷24v battery bank = 40,4 A. That means there would be some clipping if I bought this controller. And you suggest to buy this controller and double the panel array? How would that work?
It doesn't matter if you have a 100A SCC if you do not have enough solar to utilize it.
Yet again, as long the system you'll build operates and fulfills your expectations and power needs, it's all that matters really.
Best,
D.
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Owen Parker
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2021
- Messages
- 31
Understood...
I think I made a wrong decision with the SCC. I'm not sure if I'm correct on this so I thought I would ask in this thread again. I used this wire sizing calculator https://www.explorist.life/wire-sizing-calculator/ and I made an error when I was putting the numbers into the calculator a few weeks ago. Back then it seemed like I could connect those 485W panels in parallel and use a 10 AWG wire for a 100 feet distance (combined). So I thought it's not that expensive compared to series connecting and it's pretty easy to get a 10 AWG cable. But now I realized the inputs I should have put into the calculator were amps- 27.08, voltage- 45.62, length- 100 feet. And it says I should use a 6 AWG cable. In Europe that's a 16 mm2 cable and it's very hard to find this kind of a cable for solar input. And it's super expensive as well. They sell it only for batteries and inverters.
Can you recommend something in this unfortunate situation of mine. I was thinking I could change the solar charge controller for the 150/35. But I already opened the package and I don't know if they're gonna be willing to change it.
The best way to solve all of this would be by switching to a 150/35 as previously recommended for your specific installation requirements. With panels in series, you could run 10AWG with no problem.
Best,
D.
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I already sent an email to the seller. I realized that there is a law that applies on all EU countries that you can return any unused item (there are some exceptions) you purchased online within 14 days without giving a reason. So I hope there shouldn't be a problem.
I also thought about a solution like on the picture you sent, but when I started calculating, it seemed it would be more expensive then buying 100 feet of 6 AWG wire. Another issue I wasn't sure about is whether the 6 AWG would even fit into the SCC terminals. The terminals are only about 5mm in diameter.
Sorry, but that's sort of a crap move in my book, everything considered.
The seller has done everything right by you, delivered what you've ordered, and even give you a discount on panels.
You've made the mistake of choosing equipment that is not well suited for your needs, despite being advised against it here.
Why not just simply own your mistake and be upfront with the seller, and see if there's a way to swap the 100/50 for 150/35, even if for a small fee or something?
Heh. Maybe the seller could also pull some rule/law too when the time comes for your warranty claim.
Anyhow.. good luck.
I'm out.
I think you may have misunderstood. I didn't approach the seller like that. I explained to him my mistake and kindly asked him to replace it. I mentioned the law here just to reassure that it shouldn't be a problem.
I myself don't like laws or governments. But I see it like this - Somebody put us the people into a huge lake (this world) that's full of shit (manipulation, lies, exploitation) and then threw us a lifebuoy (laws) so we don't drown, but at the same time cannot excape the shitty lake. We wouldn't need the lifebuoy if this world wasn't full of liquid shit. But right now we do need it.
The seller won't lose anything when a consumer applies this law. The consumer needs to pay the delivery back to the seller, so I will be the one losing some money.
Per the SCC manual, 6AWG should fit in the SCC terminals. It might be a snug fit though.
Similarly, when I used 10AWG with 100/20 SCC, it took me a while to properly insert the cables into the terminals.
If you plan to get something like this, get the one with 4 teeth to get a square ferrules crimp. This should be able to get into the SCC terminal. I've made a mistake buying a 6-teeth one, 53EUR down the drain.
Luckily, Victron has a good cable lock system, so I didn't use ferrules at all.
Few tips for the tools,
You can get away with very cheap garden pruning shears for cutting 10, 8AWG perfectly, and 6 AWG, I even used it for 4AWG cables with a bit of trial and error. It's about 8 EUR and is found in most stores. I've also recently bought a Klein cable cutter, it's excellent but will probably go for those heavy-duty cable cutter croppers used in construction next, for the bigger cables.
Also, It's worth spending the money on an actual MC4 Crimper. Once you've crimped and assembled the MC4 connector, and connected the two cables with it, you won't be able to pull it apart by force, indicating a properly crimped connector.
This one worked as a charm for me, MC4CrimperSet.
For cable lugs up to 50mm2/ 1AWG-1/0AWG, this is a must. Period. I've bought mine locally so I can't recommend any online store or product pages.
Anyhow, hope it helps.
Best,
D.
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I also live in Portugal in the Center, if you are not in the North you should be fine I have 8 panels in serial that have a total 396,8 Voc and the higher I got was 380V.
If you haven't bought your equipment post me in private and I will put you in contact with Deye distribuitor he has all you need and few months ago had a 3KW inverter that was used in the certification for Portugal, if still has it you can get a good price and full warranty.
Don't know Xunzel inverters but if they are like their batteries don't buy it, I bought 96 x 8Ah Solar AGM and they are crap, paid close to 1500€ for them and would be happy to sell them for 700€ with 3 months use.
I assume this is for an caravan if is for a cabin one member in another forum has a 5Kw Voltronic to sell for 700€ because the inverter sine wave noise mess with his guitar.
The problem with panels is that they cost a lot to transport, for 2 panels probably you will pay 1 more, most webshops abvertise the panels but after refuse to sell.
The connectors you post are expensive and there is only 1 brand that you should use Staubli others M4 are copies most bad ones, new generation MC4-EVO2 cost 1.4 and 1.77€ each.
I found a guy on marketplace that sells solar cables from a brand called Helukabel. It's a portuguese company. He would crimp and cut everything for me. 6 mm2 (10AWG) for 1.50 €/m. Plus 3€ for crimping 2 MC4 connectors. I was thinking I could give him the exact measurements and buy all the other cables from him. It would probably be cheaper for me because I wouldn't have to buy all the tools. Electrical tools are expensive and right now we're low on finances. I'm not going to buy a fuse box, or DC lights for now. We will use just the inverter for the time being. So I think this might be a good choice considering we're also in a hurry. It would take much longer if I would have to do it myself.Per the SCC manual, 6AWG should fit in the SCC terminals. It might be a snug fit though.
Similarly, when I used 10AWG with 100/20 SCC, it took me a while to properly insert the cables into the terminals.
If you plan to get something like this, get the one with 4 teeth to get a square ferrules crimp. This should be able to get into the SCC terminal. I've made a mistake buying a 6-teeth one, 53EUR down the drain.
View attachment 129695
Btw, not sure if you have already bought the other cables or tools you'll need for your build yet, but here are a few tips and links.
I've spent a few hundred EUR on cables from Amazon prior, and I simply wasn't satisfied with those. At least in my experience, sourcing good cables, etc in the EU, can be quite a challenge, and an expensive process too.
Coicendetly, a seller from Amazon tried to slip me a used SCC for which I immediately requested a full refund and sent it back. Anyhow, lead by my online shopping experience thus far, I wanted to deal with the utmost professionals for purchasing the heart of my solar system, the reason why I went with the UK store. Since I'm from the EU I had to pay 30% for tax imports and customs. Well worth it in my case IMO, as these devices are a long-term investment.
This is how I've come across this store, 12voltplanet. It's where I buy all my Victron gear and cables now, but also has a variety of offerings ranging from lugs, cables, and Victron gear all the way up to fridges, and cooking hobs in one place. Though, it might be worth checking your local stores for cable lugs. I've found better ones at my local store. Though, the 90-degree found in this store is a very nice option to have.
Note: the prices seem higher than when you go to the checkout, this is due to the country-specific tax calculations. So it's best to go to the checkout to see the actual price of goods for your order.
There's also a store in the EU I haven't bought from yet, but planning to do so for the class T fuse/holder soon as I need a 125-150A range. They also have cables etc. Yet again, I haven't had the opportunity to check out the store yet, svb24.
Few tips for the tools,
You can get away with very cheap garden pruning shears for cutting 10, 8AWG perfectly, and 6 AWG, I even used it for 4AWG cables with a bit of trial and error. It's about 8 EUR and is found in most stores. I've also recently bought a Klein cable cutter, it's okay but will probably go for those heavy-duty cable cutter croppers used in construction next. Probably cheaper too.
Also, It's worth spending the money on an actual MC4 Crimper. Once you've crimped and assembled the MC4 connector, and connected the two cables with it, you won't be able to pull it apart by force, indicating a properly crimped connector.
This one worked as a charm for me, MC4CrimperSet.
For cable lugs up to 50mm2/ 1/0AWG, this is a must. Period. I've bought mine locally so I can't recommend any online store or product pages.
View attachment 129696
Anyhow, hope it helps.
Best,
D.
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