Is it just me?

[WorldwideDave]

I enjoy discussing solar, energy generation, energy storage, all in ones, off grid, ground mounts and more here.

However, is there a well defined process or approach one should take to figure out what they need?

For example, start with figuring out load, looking at panel for and split phase breakers, review your bill, kill a watt to figure out usage at outlets, etc?

Asking because I’d like to have a plan - an end goal - that is much more well defined than “someday I hope to have panels, all in one inverter, and batteries”.

Just when I had decided on one make/kind of battery (example rack mount EG4), a cheaper wall comes out that can be exterior mounted.

Also I can’t afford to do everything at once. I can spend maybe 1000 per month max on gear. My hope is to get some roi right away vs having gear sit for months at a time while products get cheaper and better and more powerful.

Thoughts?

 

[Q-Dog]

Search the forum for "energy audit" to get started.

 

[Mattb4]

If you know the load you can work towards the supply. However if you are making it up as you go than you can simply buy a few things you can afford and see what they will do. Keep adding on as your finances and the stuff you would like to power increases. Over a few years of experimentation you will get a feel for how it all works and likely will have redid your initial setup many times over.

Follow the Forum reading people's questions and equipment reviews and you will pick up information on all things DIY solar.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

There are several approaches - e.g. question / answer, paper design, consulting experts, .... but for me, it was building and operating a small system (200w PV, EPEVER charge controller, DIY 24v battery, 2000w inverter) based on you tubes and forums like this (with honest info) that got me educated enough to eventually design, build, and operate my current 15kw PV, 121kwh battery, and 24,000w of inverting system in a way I understand and can defend my choices.

A real investment in learning about solar/power/batteries - however you want to learn - is my recommendation for a starting place.

 

[45North]

I started with Will's book 4 years ago then made a small hobby solar system to learn on.

 

[SunDave]

I second OffGridInTheCity's, and 45North's idea of a small system to learn on. It does help. Gives you an idea of real output in your desired location, vs. panel specs vs. theory. If you have the patience, a small system will tell you a lot. You get to learn how panels string together, amperage of wire needed for a real project, all that fun stuff.

I went from a harbor freight type $150 setup, to a 400, turned 800 watt cabin build, to my home system that is quite large vs. those.

You can also go straight to the big leagues, as long as you are smarter that I am that is

 

[wpns]

There is no one true way. You can do an energy audit and figure out what you need to run what you have now, you can add a little grid-tie solar to see how that does for you (assuming net metering, or even zero export, though that gets messy), keep your options open (you are going to want batteries someday), etc.

Personally I'd do the energy audit first, it's not expensive and then you'll know the scale of your needs. "You can't control what you can't measure". And of course, the simplest and cheapest energy audit is to plug a year or two of your power bills into a spreadsheet, though you'll get much better numbers from a continuous monitor.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Is there a way to put a hall sensor on the primary lines entering the house and chart/graph that?

 

[OzSolar]

Also I can’t afford to do everything at once. I can spend maybe 1000 per month max on gear. My hope is to get some roi right away vs having gear sit for months at a time while products get cheaper and better and more powerful.

Thoughts?

It's a common quandary. Few of us do this for ROI, as in most cases it's just not there compared to traditional investments. But if you are in one of those areas with 40 cents or more kWH's then a nice ROI could very well be there. And of course, a mutual fund can't keep your lights on after a storm.

Others have already gave some great advice so there's not much I can add other than if you do start small then the first thing I'd do is install a generator transfer switch with individual circuits. Of course the solar and inverter are the generator. You can switch back and forth as you learn manage your energy needs vs. your energy production.

Is there a way to put a hall sensor on the primary lines entering the house and chart/graph that?

Check out the Emporia Vue.

 

[45North]

Is there a way to put a hall sensor on the primary lines entering the house and chart/graph that?

Mebbe, but why not just use the poco's meter and add up all your old bills?

 

[wpns]

Is there a way to put a hall sensor on the primary lines entering the house and chart/graph that?

Well, current transformer (CT) but yes, energy monitors like Emporia do exactly that. Then you’ll know your peak power in KW and daily energy requirements in KWHR and you can see what your end goal might look like (assuming that’s energy independence).
Other short-term goals will have much lower costs for instance, a few panels and a grid tie inverter will offset your electric bill.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Suggestions:
1. start by putting your $1,000/month in a separate account while you do the research.
2. get the data you will need - utility bills, daily peak demand, monthly consumption for a year, also what you pay for utility power - ToU, etc.
3. PVWatts.nrel.gov - solar potential calculator - plug in your location, plug in 1kW of PV due south tilt to match your lat or your roof pitch if you plan on using the roof. (generally they make using the roof hard, ie RSD, AFDD, need to have new roof prior to putting up PV to avoid the PV being in the way of a re-roofing job in a few years).
4. Research the rules that apply in your area - ie grid tie rule, HOA rules, Permits for ground mounts etc. know what the rules are so you don't get caught unprepared.
5. If you want to get your feet wet, but not invest a lot of money to learn about solar, a cart based mobile solar generator is a nice project at moderate cost.
6. Building in stages is a nice way to keep costs in line with income, and not get overwhelmed with too much to do all at once.

 

[WorldwideDave]

I bought everything to do with the cart except for the inverter and the 48 V battery. I also bought a lot of parts to replace the whole system such as a panel with mini breakers. I also have a lot of lugs and large wire. I’ve also got several hundred feet of nema compliant wiring. I have some panels and a 12v system and small inverter so I have beyond dabbled.

This project would be in Los Angeles, and I would like the ability to charge the batteries from an all-in-one solar charge controller, but I think with time of use and the new rules that are in place here in Southern California, there isn’t any benefit to selling it back to the utility. my preference would be to install something more low-key… I do have two separate panels… A main panel, and a subpanel in my house that is grid tied today. I think one of the easiest projects to do would be to replace the existing subpanel from the grid , but it might make more sense just to do the main panel with a bigger inverter and more panels upfront, which would then feed the sub panel through the existing wiring. Open to suggestions.

I have been saving up some money, but it’s like I would buy the inverter One month and then three months later be able to buy a 48 V battery.

Have considered doing a DIY battery with Ross cells and getting my own BMS. But I feel like there is a greater risk of failure, no warranty, and if I interpret what will has been saying lately it doesn’t seem to be much cheaper to do it yourself other than, having the knowledge of how it all works. On the other hand watching a video and seeing others do it is pretty close to the same thing. I also know that most large 48 V batteries work the same way as a DIY battery they just usually have communication built into them. Whether or not communication matters, I really don’t know. I think with the benefit of the communication system is is that the all in one can log the data and present it to you through one app versus having to switch between multiple apps.

I appreciate all the responses people have given. Please feel free to chime in if you haven’t already.

 

[WorldwideDave]

I can view all past bills. Most people add them all up or take the highest bill and multiplied by 12, or? Usage is about 7600 kWh a month.

 

[Mattb4]

7600kWh per month? That is about 2 times my annual use before I added solar to my place. 254kWh/day would require a massive PV system to reach. Over 60,000w worth of panels.

 

[Zwy]

Is there a way to put a hall sensor on the primary lines entering the house and chart/graph that?

I own the Emporia that is used in the shop and Eyedro in the house.

For overall electrical usage, the Eyedro is way better and much better for historical data and features. Emporia will give individual circuit monitoring and an overall consumption but lacks in other areas. I ran the Eyedro for about a year before I started on my house system install. After some time, you can tell what loads are on/off with the Eyedro. I hard wired the Eyedro into house network (it can be used wi fi) , the Emporia 2 was only wi fi and I ended up purchasing another access point in order to get it networked. Hard wired would have been preferred in my case. Emporia 3 is now ethernet capable which should have been since the start.

Save your money for a year, gather historical data on usage, identify which areas are power hogs and if greater energy efficiency can be achieved first. Conservation always pays, you end up with a lower electrical bill from the start and when you do build a system it won't cost as much.

Having said that, we actually increased electrical consumption since the install by over 25%. Switched to heat pumps for heating in spring/fall and now heating water with hybrid water heater instead of propane. I'm still looking for another dump load this time of year.

 

[Zwy]

I can view all past bills. Most people add them all up or take the highest bill and multiplied by 12, or? Usage is about 7600 kWh a month.

I'd get an energy monitor and find out where all this is going.

250 Kwh per day?

 

[OffGridForGood]

I wonder if the OP slipped a decimal place or something, 250kWh per day is a huge load.
250kWh in Southern CA where (others have posted) utility rates as high as $0.50/kWh on peak rate,
250 x 0.5 x 30days = $3,750/month ???
even if the average rate is say half this, that is still a monthly utility charge of $1,875

Better confirm since this would tilt the thinking so much, such as planning for 100 x 500W PV panels vs more typical 20-30 panels.

 

[WorldwideDave]

7600kWh per month? That is about 2 times my annual use before I added solar to my place. 254kWh/day would require a massive PV system to reach. Over 60,000w worth of panels.

Sorry. Will post actual data below. Had to look it up. Been three months.

 

[WorldwideDave]

24,000 watts per day
Or 24kW per day

744,000 watts per month or
744 kW per month

9,000,000 watts a year or
9,000 kW a year

According to highest power bills over last year.

I think I need 7,000 kW in panels minimum

Thoughts? Math right?

 

[OffGridForGood]

24kWh per day is pretty normal looking.
Now go to PV Watts.nrel.gov and plug in your location, 1kW of PV pointed South and use your lat or roof slope (if you plan roof mount) as the tilt angle, and see what the calculator tell you per month.
compare with your typical and max monthly - if A/C is your biggest load, high solar and high power consumption months should line up.

edit: can't be "7000kW" in panels - you mean 7000W of panels.
but this is the wrong way to look at it:
24000W/day / five hours normal solar = 4800W in PV may be sufficient. But use PVWatts to see what you have available, then consider if your will use roof or ground mounted PV and if you will have shading, and if you can direct panels south, or combination of SE, South, SW etc. to calculate what you can expect to actually collect.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

D

 

[wpns]

24,000 watts per day
Or 24kW per day

744,000 watts per month or
744 kW per month

9,000,000 watts a year or
9,000 kW a year

According to highest power bills over last year.

I think I need 7,000 kW in panels minimum

Thoughts? Math right?

Not to be pedantic about it but you really need a better understanding of KW and KWHR, or you are never going to get this right.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Half asleep when I posted. Sleepwalking now.

 

[WorldwideDave]

My bill says 744kWh or KWHR if you prefer in the past month. Highest usage ever. Added mini splits and converted from gas to electric dryer. Gas bill also expensive.

I see I left off an h or HR above.

I think the math still checks out?

According to my bill my annual average per day is 23.25 kWh or KWHR if you prefer.

My bill is 175/month TOU 9-4 with SCE

And we have not started the pool up yet so I expect 225 in electricity and 250 in gas so that’s why I’m here.