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Is it possible to protect your Solar System against EMP?

One improperly installed wire will ruin the whole protection strategy
I’d almost rather have backups in a blink-proof vault than be ‘special’ everyday.
‘We’ probably have way higher risk of dying in a car accident than we do of getting an EMP yet none of us are quitting driving…
 
I’d almost rather have backups in a blink-proof vault than be ‘special’ everyday.
‘We’ probably have way higher risk of dying in a car accident than we do of getting an EMP yet none of us are quitting driving…
Yep. For folks who have a big PV installation, most would probably balk at the price of buying redundant >everything< for such an unlikely event. But, the daily-use cables, panel racks, etc will be re-usable, and if a household can get by with a much smaller "essential loads" system the cost might not be very high. Solar panels (esp used ones) are coming down in price, "good enough" charge controllers are reasonably inexpensive (PWM still works as well as it ever did...). Batteries are pricey >and< would be the most maintenance intensive portion of any "put it in a Faraday cage and forget about it" system. Lead acid batteries would survive any EMP, and if they can be incorporated into a "daily use" system they could be kept topped up and healthy for use after "the event." Buying a big set of lithium batteries to keep offline in a shielded box "just in case" is outside of my budget, but a maybe some folks would be okay with a small investment. $300 spent for a 1200 AH battery that was checked/topped back up to 80% once per year might prove useful even in more normal situations (power outages, etc).
If my understanding is correct, having even a crummy battery (lead acid battery from a car?) will let the charge controller see that there's a nominal 12V load so the power will flow from the panels-> SCC-> inverter (and battery). Hooking an inverter to that battery will allow much larger AC loads (fridge, furnace fan, power tools, pumps, chargers for other batteries, etc) in the daytime when sufficient PV power is available. In this way, a low-budget "just in case" system, even if it had nearly zero battery storage, might be pretty useful.
 
I’d almost rather have backups in a blink-proof vault than be ‘special’ everyday.
‘We’ probably have way higher risk of dying in a car accident than we do of getting an EMP yet none of us are quitting driving…
Yeah, but some of us drive around with a get home bag in the back, and fix-a-flat in the trunk. Its just nice to not be scared, but be prepared.

I recently saw a youtube of a guy who lost thousands in equipment, cause he neglected to install lightning suppression. He learned the hard way that a few bucks spent as insurance could protect from a costly one time event.

I taught all my kids how to shoot, how to build their own rifles, the basics of Tae Kwon Do, and many other skills that would come in handy if they needed to protect their own families as they grew up.

I am hoping they NEVER need to use any of those skills, but its good to know they have the skills if needed.
 
Not necessary. Battery cells are immune to EMP. Only BMS circuit is vulnerable. Just keep spare BMS boards.
Keep them in the blink-proof vault. They could and likely would still fry from the inducted power imho.
Yep. For folks who have a big PV installation, most would probably balk at the price of buying redundant >everything< for such an unlikely event
True. But I have a problem. I depend on my stuff that is also a bit of a hobby. I think I currently have nine or ten SCC’s on hand, five inverters, and like 60 or 70 spare MC4s, maybe 1000 total of different sized terminal lugs up to 2/0… and ~3600W of spare panels that only cost me $800 1900W of which are brand new panels. I scan for stuff continually.

You get the idea.
 
True. But I have a problem. I depend on my stuff that is also a bit of a hobby. I think I currently have nine or ten SCC’s on hand, five inverters, and like 60 or 70 spare MC4s, maybe 1000 total of different sized terminal lugs up to 2/0… and ~3600W of spare panels that only cost me $800 1900W of which are brand new panels. I scan for stuff continually.

You get the idea.
Hello fellow hoarder. lol
 
Hello fellow hoarder. lol
But only certain scrap steel, jeep YJ parts, certain boat stuff, and solar equipment (that I usually buy new).
I don’t buy tools that often anymore cuz I buy stuff on needs basis. And I don’t lack for tools.
I did just get two 11# spools of 0.023 mig wire because I found it at $23/spool, and I spent $249 at harbor freight for a tubing roller that fixed a bent up $300 portable garage frame I got for free. And now I own and still have the tool and have already used it for several projects which couldn’t happen if I just bought a portable garage new.

My ‘hoarding’ has either a payback/profit incentive or is opportunistic parts that keep me from buying maintenance or repair parts later. Like transfer cases.

Maybe it is a sickness.
When I was younger I was envious of people that could move apartments in a few hours. No longer: I have a 28’ office trailer full of tools I can rebuild entire vehicles with plus a whole woodshop, and a gutted 38’ camper full of parts, lumber, other storage. They don’t cost me anything and I can repair or build most anything wood or metal.

Many think I’m a hoarder but I think of it is extremely self sufficient. ?
 
But only certain scrap steel, jeep YJ parts, certain boat stuff, and solar equipment (that I usually buy new).
I don’t buy tools that often anymore cuz I buy stuff on needs basis. And I don’t lack for tools.
I did just get two 11# spools of 0.023 mig wire because I found it at $23/spool, and I spent $249 at harbor freight for a tubing roller that fixed a bent up $300 portable garage frame I got for free. And now I own and still have the tool and have already used it for several projects which couldn’t happen if I just bought a portable garage new.

My ‘hoarding’ has either a payback/profit incentive or is opportunistic parts that keep me from buying maintenance or repair parts later. Like transfer cases.

Maybe it is a sickness.
When I was younger I was envious of people that could move apartments in a few hours. No longer: I have a 28’ office trailer full of tools I can rebuild entire vehicles with plus a whole woodshop, and a gutted 38’ camper full of parts, lumber, other storage. They don’t cost me anything and I can repair or build most anything wood or metal.

Many think I’m a hoarder but I think of it is extremely self sufficient. ?
Most of what I have will save or make me money in the future.
I didn't say that there was anything wrong with it.
It's just nice to know that I am not alone. lol
 
Yep. For folks who have a big PV installation, most would probably balk at the price of buying redundant >everything< for such an unlikely event. But, the daily-use cables, panel racks, etc will be re-usable, and if a household can get by with a much smaller "essential loads" system the cost might not be very high. Solar panels (esp used ones) are coming down in price, "good enough" charge controllers are reasonably inexpensive (PWM still works as well as it ever did...). Batteries are pricey >and< would be the most maintenance intensive portion of any "put it in a Faraday cage and forget about it" system. Lead acid batteries would survive any EMP, and if they can be incorporated into a "daily use" system they could be kept topped up and healthy for use after "the event." Buying a big set of lithium batteries to keep offline in a shielded box "just in case" is outside of my budget, but a maybe some folks would be okay with a small investment. $300 spent for a 1200 AH battery that was checked/topped back up to 80% once per year might prove useful even in more normal situations (power outages, etc).
If my understanding is correct, having even a crummy battery (lead acid battery from a car?) will let the charge controller see that there's a nominal 12V load so the power will flow from the panels-> SCC-> inverter (and battery). Hooking an inverter to that battery will allow much larger AC loads (fridge, furnace fan, power tools, pumps, chargers for other batteries, etc) in the daytime when sufficient PV power is available. In this way, a low-budget "just in case" system, even if it had nearly zero battery storage, might be pretty useful.

I wonder if we could split the baby on strategies. Keep spare solar panels, MPPTs, inverters in a faraday cage and use some of the offered devices to protect the batteries. Maybe keep one spare battery in a faraday cage. So that way you don't have to pay for expensive redundant batteries and worst case you at least have one protected battery to swap into the system.

Sleeves and ferrites and all that don't give me much confidence since I can't understand them, can't test them, and I'm used to companies selling stuff that doesn't work.

There are so many "this should work" or "might work" assurances associated with protection schemes without any real world testing that I lean toward keeping spares in an enclosure. Although even then who knows. I know nothing, but I'm under the impression that faraday cages do let certain frequencies penetrate them and since EMP employers from hostile nations don't publish their specs online, it's a crap shoot on what might work.
 
Sleeves and ferrites and all that don't give me much confidence since I can't understand them, can't test them, and I'm used to companies selling stuff that doesn't work.

There are so many "this should work" or "might work" assurances associated with protection schemes without any real world testing that I lean toward keeping spares in an enclosure. Although even then who knows.
Yes, I'm with you on that. There are plenty of folks selling expensive, simple-looking ferrites, chokes, etc. I have serious doubts that I can trust them. I might learn more and decide a small investment in something would be worth it, but I sure wouldn't spend a lot or make it central to everything else working.

I know nothing, but I'm under the impression that faraday cages do let certain frequencies penetrate them and since EMP employers from hostile nations don't publish their specs online, it's a crap shoot on what might work.
I am not an expert, but from what I've read, a homemade foil Faraday cage that is tight can attenuate all EMP frequencies at least up to 10GHz to a level of 30 dB (that is, power reduced by 97%). Further wrapping of individual items inside helps even more. Insulate each layer from the rest. That should do the trick for most situations.
I wonder if we could split the baby on strategies. Keep spare solar panels, MPPTs, inverters in a faraday cage and use some of the offered devices to protect the batteries. Maybe keep one spare battery in a faraday cage. So that way you don't have to pay for expensive redundant batteries and worst case you at least have one protected battery to swap into the system.
Right. IMO, an EMP is a low probabiliity event, but if it happens it will be very high impact. I'm not willing to spend a ton of resources on this, but I think a little preparation can help a lot if the worst happens. With emergency power, it would definitely be a situation of "diminishing returns." In the case of my family, the first approx 1000 Wh of daily electrical power provides a LOT of utility: potable water and pressurized water (that can be pushed through filters, etc for our home and some neighbors), lights, limited power tool use, radio, CPAP machine, a fan or two for much of the time, FRS radio comms with neighbors, etc. If we get another 1000 Wh per day we can do a load of clothes in the washer, run the furnace blower for limited time, use tools a bit more, etc. If we had another 1000 Wh or so, maybe I'd keep a freezer going, spurge on a few hours from a small window AC unit, etc. But the first 1000 Watt hours would have a lot more utility than the ones that follow.
 
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Yes, I'm with you on that. There are plenty of folks selling expensive, simple-looking ferrites, chokes, etc. I have serious doubts that I can trust them. I might learn more and decide a small investment in something would be worth it, but I sure wouldn't spend a lot or make it central to everything else working.


I am not an expert, but from what I've read, a homemade foil Faraday cage that is tight can attenuate all EMP frequencies at least up to 10GHz to a level of 30 dB (that is, power reduced by 97%). Further wrapping of individual items inside helps even more. Insulate each layer from the rest. That should do the trick for most situations.

Right. IMO, an EMP is a low probabiliity event, but if it happens it will be very high impact. I'm not willing to spend a ton of resources on this, but I think a little preparation can help a lot if the worst happens. With emergency power, it would definitely be a situation of "diminishing returns." In the case of my family, the first approx 1000 Wh of daily electrical power provides a LOT of utility: potable water and pressurized water (that can be pushed through filters, etc for our home and some neighbors), lights, limited power tool use, radio, CPAP machine, a fan or two for much of the time, FRS radio comms with neighbors, etc. If we get another 1000 Wh per day we can do a load of clothes in the washer, run the furnace blower for limited time, use tools a bit more, etc. If we had another 1000 Wh or so, maybe I'd keep a freezer going, spurge on a few hours from a small window AC unit, etc. But the first 1000 Watt hours would have a lot more utility than the ones that follow.
I was just looking at some comments on a video about which cities would be attacked in a nuke war. EMP is one thing, but all out nukes would darken the sky for about a year the comments indicated, so Solar would not help. You would need combustibles to survive, like gas, oil, propane, and gassified wood. Most of the wood would be gone from the fires though.
I live right by a naval base and air force base, so I would most likely not even notice it happened.
 
I did ESD testing on chips. Basically an ESD event triggers a "Shorting" response in the protection network. One short is not enough. The ESD is a complex waveform of many frequencies, some of the waves will be at or near zero volts at the Short location. These waves pass on down the line, and another ESD protection device is needed.
Your power company may have lightning arresters. But some gets thru and It's good to have Surge protector power strips.
I have been adding snap on Ferrite beads to my wiring, including the solar wiring. Basically it is an inductor which will delay current as its magnetic field builds. That delay could give a chance for the Surge Protection to work. EMP being incredibly fast. I was more worried about nearby Lightning strikes. Additional stages of protection are helpfull.
Snap On Ferrite Beads.
 
I did ESD testing on chips. Basically an ESD event triggers a "Shorting" response in the protection network. One short is not enough. The ESD is a complex waveform of many frequencies, some of the waves will be at or near zero volts at the Short location. These waves pass on down the line, and another ESD protection device is needed.
Your power company may have lightning arresters. But some gets thru and It's good to have Surge protector power strips.
I have been adding snap on Ferrite beads to my wiring, including the solar wiring. Basically it is an inductor which will delay current as its magnetic field builds. That delay could give a chance for the Surge Protection to work. EMP being incredibly fast. I was more worried about nearby Lightning strikes. Additional stages of protection are helpfull.
Snap On Ferrite Beads.
From my research, most amazon Ferrites are not very good. Fair-rite seems to be the best supplier of high quality ferrites for protection. Its all in the quality and tests performed on the batches.
 
I was just looking at some comments on a video about which cities would be attacked in a nuke war. EMP is one thing, but all out nukes would darken the sky for about a year the comments indicated, so Solar would not help. You would need combustibles to survive, like gas, oil, propane, and gassified wood. Most of the wood would be gone from the fires though.
I live right by a naval base and air force base, so I would most likely not even notice it happened.

My plan is to have my solar array lifted by helium balloons up above the haze. Not sure what the voltage drop will be on the wire though.

Seriously though, propane is our plan. We have so many volcanoes around here, Canada burning and sending smoke into the air (going the other way fortunately) and volcanic stuff in the atmosphere from Russia that eventually we hope to have combustibles as a backup. I like the idea of propane due to the shelf life. We could build up a large stash of it and hopefully not use it. If you build up a stash of diesel or gas though, the clock is ticking on its shelf life and it would be a scramble to use it before it went bad.
 
I don't think anyone is bought this up yet, but if your cell phone stops working, your whole life comes to an end. You might as well stand on the beach and get that nice Rosy suntan from the nuclear fallout LOL
 
I was just looking at some comments on a video about which cities would be attacked in a nuke war. EMP is one thing, but all out nukes would darken the sky for about a year the comments indicated, so Solar would not help.
Members post about the reduction in PV yield with the Canadian wildfire smoke, yet would harden against an EMP where most likely it ends up with full nuke war. Makes sense.
 
From my research, most amazon Ferrites are not very good. Fair-rite seems to be the best supplier of high quality ferrites for protection. Its all in the quality and tests performed on the batches.
But... Snap on Ferrites are easy to use. Far easier then pulling wires, slipping them on, and reconnecting. Their cheap enough that using 2 or 3 is not a big deal, and you can spread them apart to be more effective. They can be used on a single wire or common mode on cable with Hot and Neutral or cable with Solar + and - .
 
Members post about the reduction in PV yield with the Canadian wildfire smoke, yet would harden against an EMP where most likely it ends up with full nuke war. Makes sense.
Two observations:
most likely it ends up with full nuke war.
1. "Likely" doesn't mean "inevitably." There are >plenty< of very plausible scenarios where EMP damage is the only/most significant damage experienced in a confrontation. Strategy and war are very complex things.

2. For the vast majority of households that depend on the grid for 100% of their electricity, a small "essentials only" offline power system (solar or solar/generator) that addresses outages due to other reasons (ice storms, hurricane, local lightning strike, grid problems, coronal mass ejection (CME), etc,) requires only a tiny bit of additional investment to also address an outage caused by EMP. It seems prudent to make that small investment, IMO. It's far less likely than other causes of power loss, but will last a lot longer if it doees happen. Cheap >additional< insurance.
 
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But... Snap on Ferrites are easy to use. Far easier then pulling wires, slipping them on, and reconnecting. Their cheap enough that using 2 or 3 is not a big deal, and you can spread them apart to be more effective. They can be used on a single wire or common mode on cable with Hot and Neutral or cable with Solar + and - .
I like your handle. Hoping its in honor of the 1973 movie with Steve McQueen.
 
Better to prepare for solar flares than a nuclear EMP. With extremely high particulates (5,000ppm pm100), I doubt many combustion engines could run for more than a few hours. You just can't filter that stuff out for very long, and when it runs the full spectrum of particulate sizes the weakest link is hit quickly.
 

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