Is it Worth it ($$) to be an Installer in the 3rd World?$

[AgroVenturesPeru]

I'm going to invest in a drill, wire cutters, wire strippers, wrenches, multi-meter, MC4 crimper, and a couple other small tools, since the tools will cost me less than paying what the installers are asking for here in Rioja, Peru.

What I'm curious about is if I should keep investing in my education after I put in my own system? There are some basic online courses and whatnot, but I honestly don't know if it's worth it. I know in the USA there is a great deal of demand, and excellent subsidy programs, so solar is definitely growing there. But how about in the third world? In Peru, unfortunately, my off-grid solar system cost me probably 30-40% more than it would have cost in the USA for the exact same components, because customs and the government taxes it hard just like any other import. You just don't see much solar here except for maybe a small 10W panel on a pole, that people use to charge their phones. In the third world, it seems more like a luxury that only a few wealthy might demand. I think here it depends on whether the government subsidizes the average poor person to install solar, and its an uphill battle (as it is anywhere) with the big energy monopolies.

I'm sure the question largely correlates with another question: What is the future of solar?

 

[Supervstech]

Solar prices drop every year, labor prices rise every year.

it wouldn’t surprise me if you could make a good living with it.

insurance and codes notwithstanding... cover yourself, and see what the customers could pay.

good luck!

 

[A.Justice]

Make your own market. Order bulk panels and equipment yourself, get them through customs / fees, and have them locally available. Of course there would be a markup, but it would be less if you purchased in bulk. Plus, people like things NOW, not in a few months.

Design a few simple systems for "sale" that you would install to meet different demands. Ex: you could have a small "budget" system, designed for charging phones, laptops, and a few LED lights, then you could offer a bigger system for customers who need more energy.

Pre-designed "packages" would allow you to make it very clear up front what they are capable of.

I have no clue what codes are like in Peru, but I imagine nobody cares about small off-grid systems in areas where power is scarce or non-existent.

If it were me, I would visit towns or villages that don't have power, or have frequent blackouts, and pitch community systems for basic things, like phones, radios, and computers.

The NEED is there, you just have to figure out how to make it cost effective, and turn it into a WANT.

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

Well there may be some codes here, but we're way out in the boonies, and no one really cares. You can pretty much build or do anything you want as long as you're not deforesting, but the authorities don't really do anything about that either. It's pretty much the wild west still.

The other focus of my question is my own background. I don't have any previous experience with solar or electrical engineering. Do you think it's important to have a background as, say, an electrician if you want to get into solar, or is it one of those things that anyone can pick up, and get proficient enough at to do installations?

 

[Diysolar123]

solar government regulation in 1st world countries make it a losing proposition to get in the game now.
In 3rd world the proliferation of lower cost solar combined with much lower power demands per home seems like a good match.
The flip side is that in certain cultures(such as middle east) "who" is allowed to work on such things and the bribes needed can be considerable. (yep, bribes and informal control of such services is a very real thing and an integral part of the culture). No idea how that is in your part of the world, you would have to ask around.

Deploying a solar system does NOT require a great degree of understanding of electronics; it really is rather straight forward and the tool demands are minimal. You are basically wiring together pre-built components with at most 4 wires.
The trickest part is sizing the front end (panels and batterieis) to the back end (power demands)...and there are a lot of online calculators that actually do a pretty good job of that.

 

[pollenface]

Do you think it's important to have a background as, say, an electrician if you want to get into solar, or is it one of those things that anyone can pick up, and get proficient enough at to do installations?

I think you should have proficient knowledge in the service you're wanting to provide.

(We're all here to help)

 

[A.Justice]

The flip side is that in certain cultures(such as middle east) "who" is allowed to work on such things and the bribes needed can be considerable. (yep, bribes and informal control of such services is a very real thing and an integral part of the culture). No idea how that is in your part of the world, you would have to ask around.

I never really understood the difference between a "bribe" and fees for permitting and licensing anyway. Either way, you have to pay someone else money for something that YOU are doing. ?

 

[Supervstech]

I never really understood the difference between a "bribe" and fees for permitting and licensing anyway. Either way, you have to pay someone else money for something that YOU are doing. ?

We lived in Iran in the late 70’s and the phone company waiting list was 9months. The landlord paid the installer $3000 and the phone was installed in 2 days...

 

[Bud Martin]

Will the people in rural place in Peru be interested in small Solar generator type package that you can put together and sell them?

 

[Skid]

When first looking for solar in Nicaragua I asked one company - well, one man - for an estimate of a small, basically whole house UPS. He would only talk high end, Battle Born, Outback, Midnite Solar etc. and American labor prices to match. I really didn't need that for essentially a backup. Another company is doing a good business using Growatt and Gyll batteries. No one sells those here and he has them only for installations.
Pretty much the rest of the companies are offering MSW inverters and PWM controllers. I ended up having to import the system I need. I'm not blaming the companies here as it's a fairly poor country and there's not that much of a consumer base.

There are ways to import inverters and batteries and such and solar is taxed relatively leniently. The company using Growatt and Gyll is pretty busy. The first one I contacted is now doing consulting and maintenance.

Search Peru Facebook expat groups and message boards. See who's advertising what, the products they have and how much they charge and more importantly if people there are looking to go solar.

 

[mrdavvv]

I'm going to invest in a drill, wire cutters, wire strippers, wrenches, multi-meter, MC4 crimper, and a couple other small tools, since the tools will cost me less than paying what the installers are asking for here in Rioja, Peru.

What I'm curious about is if I should keep investing in my education after I put in my own system? There are some basic online courses and whatnot, but I honestly don't know if it's worth it. I know in the USA there is a great deal of demand, and excellent subsidy programs, so solar is definitely growing there. But how about in the third world? In Peru, unfortunately, my off-grid solar system cost me probably 30-40% more than it would have cost in the USA for the exact same components, because customs and the government taxes it hard just like any other import. You just don't see much solar here except for maybe a small 10W panel on a pole, that people use to charge their phones. In the third world, it seems more like a luxury that only a few wealthy might demand. I think here it depends on whether the government subsidizes the average poor person to install solar, and its an uphill battle (as it is anywhere) with the big energy monopolies.

I'm sure the question largely correlates with another question: What is the future of solar?

Solar was a lot less competed 10 years ago, nowadays there is thousands of installers doing the same thing, without knowing your particulars i would say... "maybe" its harder to start on your own. Panels are starting to become a commodity, you can buy them even at costco. Everyone is selling solar, the electrician, the CCTV guy, regular builders.... it has become pretty easy to do with microinverters and aluminum mounting systems.

But in every market there is niches, and you can take advantage of that.

For example, in my market there is a bunch of people that can install "regular" PV systems with string inverters and microinverters, the "easy" stuff. Its so competed that you cant believe some of the pricing that people are offering just to get a client... a real price war that in my opinion its starting to get detrimental since there is not a lot of regulation in 3rd world countries, a lot of unsafe and shitty installations.

The lack of regulations can be an advantage... in USA you need to be a licensed electrician and learn the NEC code, a bible with hundreds of pages.

In Peru, i guess you only need a couple of pliers

So if everyone is installing "regular, easy" systems, what can you do to differentiate yourself?. For example, focusing in off grid systems, there is not a lot of people that can do them good and with good pricing. In my market most of the installers still use 100% offgrid inverters (They dont know the hybrids) and keep offering AGM / lead acid batteries. That's why i started on solar, i wanted a LIFEPO4 system and no one that i could find offer them.

So you could specialize in offgrid and purchase "Cheap" lifepo4 batteries with cheap hybrid inverters like the MPP solars or growatts... with that combination you can easily beat a lot of more established companies that still use lead acid and old inverters.

You can specialize in PV water pumping systems.

---

That being said, you need to learn a lot about electricity and regulations to do a proper job. You dont want one of your installations burning a house, or some panels flying in a storm and killing someone.

And learning its never a waste, my work its not solar, but everything i have learn has been useful, now i can easily do my own electrical installations, following code and better than a lot of local electricians. I can diagnose basic electric issues. I can do a lot that i couldn't before, its worth it.

 

[mrdavvv]

When first looking for solar in Nicaragua I asked one company - well, one man - for an estimate of a small, basically whole house UPS. He would only talk high end, Battle Born, Outback, Midnite Solar etc. and American labor prices to match. I really didn't need that for essentially a backup. Another company is doing a good business using Growatt and Gyll batteries. No one sells those here and he has them only for installations.
Pretty much the rest of the companies are offering MSW inverters and PWM controllers. I ended up having to import the system I need. I'm not blaming the companies here as it's a fairly poor country and there's not that much of a consumer base.

There are ways to import inverters and batteries and such and solar is taxed relatively leniently. The company using Growatt and Gyll is pretty busy. The first one I contacted is now doing consulting and maintenance.

Search Peru Facebook expat groups and message boards. See who's advertising what, the products they have and how much they charge and more importantly if people there are looking to go solar.

That was my experience.

A couple of business selling high end lithium batteries and inverters, pricing out of reach for regular folks.

And the rest 5 years behind the times with their little PWM controllers, old inverters and lead acid!.

And also, ended up importing my own batteries and inverters, and at the end installing my own system since no one was experienced with this kind of setups!

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

Solar was a lot less competed 10 years ago, nowadays there is thousands of installers doing the same thing, without knowing your particulars i would say... "maybe" its harder to start on your own. Panels are starting to become a commodity, you can buy them even at costco. Everyone is selling solar, the electrician, the CCTV guy, regular builders.... it has become pretty easy to do with microinverters and aluminum mounting systems.

But in every market there is niches, and you can take advantage of that.

For example, in my market there is a bunch of people that can install "regular" PV systems with string inverters and microinverters, the "easy" stuff. Its so competed that you cant believe some of the pricing that people are offering just to get a client... a real price war that in my opinion its starting to get detrimental since there is not a lot of regulation in 3rd world countries, a lot of unsafe and shitty installations.

The lack of regulations can be an advantage... in USA you need to be a licensed electrician and learn the NEC code, a bible with hundreds of pages.

In Peru, i guess you only need a couple of pliers

So if everyone is installing "regular, easy" systems, what can you do to differentiate yourself?. For example, focusing in off grid systems, there is not a lot of people that can do them good and with good pricing. In my market most of the installers still use 100% offgrid inverters (They dont know the hybrids) and keep offering AGM / lead acid batteries. That's why i started on solar, i wanted a LIFEPO4 system and no one that i could find offer them.

So you could specialize in offgrid and purchase "Cheap" lifepo4 batteries with cheap hybrid inverters like the MPP solars or growatts... with that combination you can easily beat a lot of more established companies that still use lead acid and old inverters.

You can specialize in PV water pumping systems.

---

That being said, you need to learn a lot about electricity and regulations to do a proper job. You dont want one of your installations burning a house, or some panels flying in a storm and killing someone.

And learning its never a waste, my work its not solar, but everything i have learn has been useful, now i can easily do my own electrical installations, following code and better than a lot of local electricians. I can diagnose basic electric issues. I can do a lot that i couldn't before, its worth it.

How did you learn?

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

That was my experience.

A couple of business selling high end lithium batteries and inverters, pricing out of reach for regular folks.

And the rest 5 years behind the times with their little PWM controllers, old inverters and lead acid!.

And also, ended up importing my own batteries and inverters, and at the end installing my own system since no one was experienced with this kind of setups!

Peru was probably like this too five years ago. Now, there are companies in the capital that have pre-packaged kits that are mostly AGM and cheaper components, but they also offer high-end components. As you say, "out of reach for regular folks". I'm out in the boonies, and I went with the higher end stuff from distributors in the capital. The local companies are dealing components with lead acid/AGM batteries and tiny, 50W panels, since most people in rural areas cook with gas or even wood. In the village of about 100 people where I live, there is only one other person that has a refrigerator. There are some larger towns nearby though, where I'm sure there's' more electrical consumption.

Since people who do installations know enough to understand that my components are higher-end, and there's almost always a factor where they try to take advantage of a foreigner, I didn't receive a lot of reasonable quotes for my installation, so I just got fed up, and bought all my own tools instead. I'm nervous to do it myself. I'll have one helper, who's a general handyman type guy, but still...I need to make sure we do things right.

 

[mrdavvv]

How did you learn?

I had some bases as my studies and a career involved some electronics, but most stuff you can learn from the internet... ive watched hundreds of hours of youtube videos, read a bunch of articles and some books. You need to put the time, but its doable. Wills its pretty knwoleadbe about PV systems, and he learned everything in the internet too.

Ill suggest starting with basic electricity / electronics courses in youtube, a lot of how to install PV systems and there should be a lot of guys installing your brand of inverter.. that could be a great reference. You will know when you feel ready, and you can share your photos, diagrams and ideas here to double check.

Peru was probably like this too five years ago. Now, there are companies in the capital that have pre-packaged kits that are mostly AGM and cheaper components, but they also offer high-end components. As you say, "out of reach for regular folks". I'm out in the boonies, and I went with the higher end stuff from distributors in the capital. The local companies are dealing components with lead acid/AGM batteries and tiny, 50W panels, since most people in rural areas cook with gas or even wood. In the village of about 100 people where I live, there is only one other person that has a refrigerator. There are some larger towns nearby though, where I'm sure there's' more electrical consumption.

Since people who do installations know enough to understand that my components are higher-end, and there's almost always a factor where they try to take advantage of a foreigner, I didn't receive a lot of reasonable quotes for my installation, so I just got fed up, and bought all my own tools instead. I'm nervous to do it myself. I'll have one helper, who's a general handyman type guy, but still...I need to make sure we do things right.

interesting, you leave me curious about how you end up in such small village in Peru!, if you are interested enough i think you can do your own system!, and maybe pay a fee to a good installer or electrician to check your installation an make sure everything is safe!

 

[AgroVenturesPeru]

I had some bases as my studies and a career involved some electronics, but most stuff you can learn from the internet... ive watched hundreds of hours of youtube videos, read a bunch of articles and some books. You need to put the time, but its doable. Wills its pretty knwoleadbe about PV systems, and he learned everything in the internet too.

Ill suggest starting with basic electricity / electronics courses in youtube, a lot of how to install PV systems and there should be a lot of guys installing your brand of inverter.. that could be a great reference. You will know when you feel ready, and you can share your photos, diagrams and ideas here to double check.



interesting, you leave me curious about how you end up in such small village in Peru!, if you are interested enough i think you can do your own system!, and maybe pay a fee to a good installer or electrician to check your installation an make sure everything is safe!

The property we found here was absolutely the most beautiful piece of property we could find. It's an undiscovered gem sort of place that's completely underexploited touristically. Even though the house is going to be our personal home, in the future we're considering renting it for a few days at a time to biologists and bird enthusiasts. It will be the only decent place to lodge anywhere near here. The area where we are is the most biologically diverse hotspot on the planet for Orchids.

That's a good idea to have an electrician double-check my work.

I think I'm going to start a separate thread on here to document the whole process too. That way I can share a bit more, and others can chime in if I'm doing something wrong.