diy solar

diy solar

Kind of off grid help? UK

Shaman

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2023
Messages
17
Location
UK
I am planning a system that will be eventually off grid, but funding means will be modular effort.

Currently have electricity price on Economy 7 of £0.44p day £0.095 night. £0.50p standing charge.

The system will be part of a self sufficient micro smallholding/homestead.

My house is thatched and listed so panels must be ground mount.

My feelings are to firstly get a battery, diesel generator and a switchover module. Then add panels later when funds permit.

So…. Is it best to buy separate switchover or get an inverter(?) with one built in?. The generator is part of a long term failsafe for power and wouldn’t be used much.

Be good to have a “brain” box (inverter?) to start with and just add everything to it when funds permit. Ideally could be app or computer controlled.

I have no interest in selling back to grid, eventually I’d like to get rid of the scummy thieves.

Thanks!
 
Hi


Two things,

1) you are correct, you can get yourself an inverter, battery and a Geno , this will give you back up electricity in case of a power cut , also you'd be ready to install panels as and when budget allows


2) I would recommend an LPG generator for standby use , new desiel does no store well,, 3months max , plus if left in the Geno it will gum up

LPG does not suffer either of these issues


I can recommend good LPG genos & good Hybrid inverters , but very much depends on your budget !
 
This is new to me, and ideally I’d like to find a used hybrid inverter and battery. Suppose should have capacity for adding and adding as needs arise. Growatt maybe?
 
This is new to me, and ideally I’d like to find a used hybrid inverter and battery. Suppose should have capacity for adding and adding as needs arise. Growatt maybe?
Growatt are good (not the best, but good)

But here's the issue:

The size of the inverter (KW)


When you are 'grid-tied' , you only need a small inverter, usually 3.6kw , , the inverter mixes with electricity with the mains, supplying household loads if possible , any load larger than 3.6kw (electric cooker, shower etc.) then is supplied automatically by the mains

It is very different when you are off-grid , your off-grid inverter needs to be big enough to supply all household loads
 
If budget is tight (I know mine is now-a-days ?) these are the recommendations I would make

Hybrid inverter:




Generator:

 
Which models should I look out for do you think? I’m not set on Growatt, just seen them.
Edecona sell the best value Hybrid inverters you can get in the UK (at least that is the best you can get from a semi-reputable company with a real warranty they genuinely honour)
 
So would generator switchover be separate?

Yea it's not really done a lot in the UK , much more common in the states , they are called a generator interlock

But I doubt that little Geno is going to run your whole house, it's only 2kw , people use a little geno like that to recharge batteries , then power the house with an inverter from the batteries (if that makes sense? )


Not yet, seem so expensive

Yep ! There's some great deals on flooded lead-acid/gel/AGM batteries (especially good condition secondhand ),

if you want Lithiums it's going to cost you £££
 
Yea it's not really done a lot in the UK , much more common in the states , they are called a generator interlock

But I doubt that little Geno is going to run your whole house, it's only 2kw , people use a little geno like that to recharge batteries , then power the house with an inverter from the batteries (if that makes sense? )




Yep ! There's some great deals on flooded lead-acid/gel/AGM batteries (especially good condition secondhand ),

if you want Lithiums it's going to cost you £££
Thanks. Any recommendations on used batteries or Powersafe etc
 
Thanks. Any recommendations on used batteries or Powersafe etc

Yes powersafe, or any quality brand name , Leoch, yuasa , Sonnenschein , Trojan etc.


This is my go to seller

Your battery bank all wants to be made up of matching batteries if at all possible,
 
I will play devil's advocate here.

While a generator can charge up a battery bank fast it is an expensive way to produce electricity and with fuel prices very fluctuating especially in the UK because of the war in Ukraine it could get very expensive to use a fuel generator.

A good generator that will output enough to charge a bank of batteries will cost $2k-$3k in the US and probably more in the UK.

That would purchase at least a 2kw solar array which for many houses in the UK would probably be enough for their needs depending on heat and cooling source.

If you can get a deal on used panels you could probably get a 5kw system for the same price as a new fuel generator.

When you calculate on going fuel costs to run the generator and maintenance and possible breakdowns and repairs a solar array would be cheaper and is a one time expense with an average life of 20 years and little maintenance. It will also work if the grid goes down and you can't get fuel.

Note: I am from the US and not familiar with UK prices so correct me if there is a huge difference and equipment where you live.

Added: ground mount systems do not have to be fancy or expensive and mine is just two posts 3 feet in the ground with a cross post to attach the panels to and some cinder block under the panels to hold them at the correct angle. Stuff you can get cheap or free most places.

400 watt system.jpg
 
Last edited:
A good generator that will output enough to charge a bank of batteries will cost $2k-$3k in the US and probably more in the UK.

That would purchase at least a 2kw solar array which for many houses in the UK would probably be enough for their needs depending on heat and cooling source.
2kW is very small. Absolute minimum of 3kW for a small house. Not much sun over here. If DIY, should be able to get well over 3kW of panels and mounts for $3000. Panels are cheap. Overpanelling is good. Batteries are not cheap, but get as many as you can. I prefer LFP to FLA. Worth it in the long run.
 
A good generator that will output enough to charge a bank of batteries will cost $2k-$3k in the US and probably more in the UK.

That would purchase at least a 2kw solar array which for many houses in the UK would probably be enough for their needs depending on heat and cooling source

At the cheapest sellers £3k would get you over 15,000w of solar panels

But then you've got to mount them ?
 
Hey, I've done something similar in the UK. 'Kind of' Off Grid, I do have access to the grid, but do my upmost not to use it for anything other than charging my batteries when I get negative rates from my Energy provider and loads that are just too big for my inverter.

I built my own battery using EVE LF280K LifePo4 cells and a Seplos Mason DIY kit. The rest of my install is all Victron equipment. It's expensive, but it's reliable, and there's lots of support on the Victron Community Forums. Also I'm a data geek and Victron's system monitoring capabilities are second too non. It's been up and running now for 10 months and I've no complaints, although if I were to do it again I would likely install an EG4® 18kPV-12LV All-In-One Hybrid Inverter. The Victron equipment is good, but it's very very expensive, especially if you want to be able o run some high loads.

The first thing I would do though is change your energy supplier, those rates are terrible. I'm on Octopus Agile currently and again have no complaints. Rates are lower outside on-peak hours and you sometimes get plunge pricing, where you are actually paid to use electricity. I'm in the process of upping my battery charging capacity to exploit it as much as possible.

The second would be an energy audit. You need to know how much energy you use on average each day and what your highest loads are.
If you have a smart meter you can use your energy supplier’s app/website to give you an idea of your daily usage, but you will need a monitoring device to measure your loads. I used this: Shelly EM (You’ll need the 120A clamp). There are other cheaper alternatives out there, but I wanted to be able to consume the data and use the built in relay for IOT projects down the line. You need to know how much energy you use on average each day and what your highest loads are for several reasons. Solar requirements, battery capacity and inverter size.

Solar Requirements

There are lots of detailed tools you can use to calculate your daily sun insolation (How many hours of direct sunlight on average per day) which
will help you calculate your solar requirements, but here’s a basic example to illustrate. A 4KW solar array in the peak of summer under
ideal conditions (your roof points directly south, has a 35 degree angle and has no shade whatsoever) will on average generate 16.36KW of electricity (4.09 * 4KW). However in December with a 4KW array you will only generate on average 3.76KW a day. Not great if your daily usage is say 12KW. You’re only going to generate enough to cover your daily requirements for 6 of the 12 months. And the months with the greatest shortfall are those when you are likely going to require the most energy. There are ways around that however. If you have a big enough battery bank you can store more on the days when the sun hours exceed the average to be used on low yield days. And you can also use an off peak energy tariff such as Octopus Agile or Octopus Go/Intelligent recharge your battery overnight on a low or negative rate to be used during the day.

Here's a handy calculator that will allow you to see your solar irradiance figures: Irradiance Calculator Ultimately though you will want to fill as much of your available roof space as possible with the most powerful panels you can afford or justify buying.

Battery Capacity

Once you know your daily energy requirements, and hopefully your solar array size, you can calculate what size battery you will require. The bigger the battery the more energy you can capture and store from your solar array, and the less reliant you are on the grid. My battery has a total capacity of 33.8KWH, however I only use 80% of that as I keep my battery above 20% State of Charge (SOC) to aid longevity. So I’ve 27.04KWH to play with. Although that is contentious, some use 10-90%, others 0-100%. I may soon move to 10-90% myself as degradation from ageing is likely to kill the cells long before charging cycles will. My aim when I designed the system was to have enough battery capacity for around 3 days usage from fully charged with no solar or grid input whatsoever. That way in the winter months I could ride out those days where next to no energy is generated from solar and capture and store everything on those rare sunny days here up north in winter. I have a 12KW array, which is 3 x the typical install size, and even I'm starting to realise I may need to charge from the grid at some point over winter.

Inverter

Once you know your peak loads and your solar array capacity you can size your inverter. I chose a Victron Multiplus 48/5000 in the end. However it’s only capable of around 4.2KW continuous and 9KW peak (for around 60 seconds), and my shower is 9KW, and I also have a couple of other loads exceed that. There's a few ways you can approach inverter sizing in relation to your highest loads. You can buy an inverter capable of delivering the loads, which can be expensive. You can reduce your highest loads to match your inverter capacity, which may not always be possible (like in my case). You can use an inverter that can power assist, i.e. provide the maximum amount of electricity possible from your inverter and supplement that from the grid, although this will require you to give notice to your Distribution Network Operator (DNO). Or as I have done, separate your higher and lower loads into two consumer units, so the higher draws energy from the grid, and the lower from your inverter. I added a changeover switches on both my high and low consumer units so I can switch them both back and forth between the grid and my inverter/battery. This especially comes in handy during my energy providers plunge pricing days when I get paid to use electricity and go absolutely nuts switching everything in the house on ?

Take the above with a pinch of salt. It's just a brain dump of how I approached my install, and ultimately like many here I'm just a noob DIYer. However i'm sure if I've led you down the wrong path others will soon be along to put you straight. This forum is a great resource, and I'm not sure whether I would have managed to complete my build without it. I'd also highly recommend you check out Andy & Will's Youtube channels, @OffGridGarageAustralia and @WillProwse.

Any questions do not hesitate to ask.
 
Back
Top