Leaking Electrolyte from Bigbattery Powerblock

[curiouscarbon]

I appreciate your contributions @mesquito_creek ? keep the safety stuff comin!

this is just a toasty thread ?

i too get “triggered” by knowing about people being in harm’s way. and want to do something about it to reduce the harm like share safety advice

PPE FTW!!

nobody should need hazmat for a battery build but Wear Yer Goggles! (am i doing this ok?)

 

[solarbot]

The biggest problem I have with BB is the honestly of the CEO and I won't say any more about that. Read the thread. The problems with this company have not been limited to leaky cells. From what I know this could be the third reported case of BB's cells leaking.

For now I will stick with my theory that the 11 (is that the right number?) leaking cells they claimed to have "discovered" in their inventory were actually all discovered in the field by customers. This theory would seem to fit the data better than what they implied they had done, that is, reviewed all their cell inventory for problems, and found 11. Increasingly just sounds like a cover story to me.

Are they putting new cells in these things, or are they actually in the binning/recyle game?

 

[solarbot]

If you already have BigBatteries just keep an eye on them and use the proper PPE and safety precautions around them.

...and don't stand them vertically, lay them on their backs to catch the drips, maybe even prevent the issue.

 

[solarbot]

Knowing now what your saying about the cell relief valves makes sense and I do not plan on laying the unit on its side

I think he meant, don't orient the cells on their side. Do lay the Bigbattery pack on its back, which orients the cells upright and gives you a drip catcher should that ever be needed. Quick take: I'm not liking that vertical standing concept at all. It appears to be entirely for looks and not practicality.

 

[Just John]

I think he meant, don't orient the cells on their side. Do lay the Bigbattery pack on its back, which orients the cells upright and gives you a drip catcher should that ever be needed. Quick take: I'm not liking that vertical standing concept at all. It appears to be entirely for looks and not practicality.

Correct, watch the video Will made about it, and you can see the cell orientation.
Essentially, lay the battery pack on it's back.

Cell orientation:

Leaking from the pressure valve:

The proper way to orient the battery packs if they are not leaking:

Personally, if I had bought one and they weren't leaking, I would use them.
I would definitely place them on their back like Will does, and not worry about it any more than any other 170AH Lishen cell out there

Start of the problem for Will:

 

[Tony Scott]

I'm interested to find how where to find the battery specs on what kind of physical loading the shells can take.... I was considering a BB pack for my trailer, as well as a DIY 36V pack in the future.

Even if they are upright, how much loading can they take? As in- should one put a mat between the battery pack and hard surfaces? For instance, if you could put the entire pack in a milk crate (as Will's examples have), should you put some cushion between it and whatever trailer frame it ends up sitting on?

While it would be easy to blame Big Battery, the more interesting path I hope this goes is actual physical capabilities of the batteries.

They built it and should have throughly tested it, the battery maker did not stack them. What big battery claims they found can not be confirmed, but I suspect they had more of a problem then they are will to admit to.

 

[Just John]

Oh no... i have a BB Hawk model on order right now and it is supposed to ship on 8-18-21.

Do you think I should have faith that these are random occurrence with their leaking or should I be concerned and cancel my order?

I have been trying to find a decent lifepo4 pack for months and have watched many of your great videos on them. But I have been unable to find anything like the Hawk for capacity, features, price or availability. It seems almost all the decent pre made packs are either on backorder, way over priced or have reported defects.

I would appreciate your input on what you would do.

If it were me personally, I would ask if I could change it to the hawk max with the 202AH cells. If they wouldn't let me, check it closely when you get it, and lay it on the back and not worry about it. Any of these models, I would place so the cells are upright. The stacked on their sides layout is just a bad design IMO.

 

[Gazoo]

What big battery claims they found can not be confirmed, but I suspect they had more of a problem then they are will to admit to.

I agree. Why did the CEO feel the need to lie? And this isn't the first thread he has lied in. White grease anyone...?

They built it and should have throughly tested it, the battery maker did not stack them.

That's true. However the battery manufacturer gave BB the ok to assemble them with the cells on their sides. While I won't argue against mounting the cells vertically and that is the best way, a cells vent should never leak even if the cell is mounted upside down.

 

[Gazoo]

For now I will stick with my theory that the 11 (is that the right number?) leaking cells they claimed to have "discovered" in their inventory were actually all discovered in the field by customers. This theory would seem to fit the data better than what they implied they had done, that is, reviewed all their cell inventory for problems, and found 11. Increasingly just sounds like a cover story to me.

Judge Judy said if it doesn't make sense then it's a lie.

Are they putting new cells in these things, or are they actually in the binning/recyle game?

The video posted by Hightechlab of Big Batteries warehouse had many boxes with Lishen printed on them. I think the cells are new. I question why any are leaking. I don't think we will ever know.

 

[solarbot]

The video posted by Hightechlab of Big Batteries warehouse had many boxes with Lishen printed on them. I think the cells are new.

Can we definitely rule out the possibility that they "augment" their supply of new cells with recycled/refurbished ones? Maybe a few that don't have dents and hold a decent charge. After all they started as a recycling depot. As I recall, the video also shows stacks of recycled materials. Does Bigbattery certify their products as containing only new materials?

 

[Just John]

That's true. However the battery manufacturer gave BB the ok to assemble them with the cells on their sides. While I won't argue against mounting the cells vertically and that is the best way, a cells vent should never leak even if the cell is mounted upside down.

I agree. The cell manufacturer supplied cells that have a manufacturing defect, or were not designed/tested enough for that orientation. Certainly not stacked that densely. It can be fixed in another revision, but who pays?

Certainly for now the company should not be giving people a problem to exchange.

 

[Just John]

Can we definitely rule out the possibility that they "augment" their supply of new cells with recycled/refurbished ones? Maybe a few that don't have dents and hold a decent charge. After all they started as a recycling depot. As I recall, the video also shows stacks of recycled materials. Does Bigbattery certify their products as containing only new materials?

I have seen nothing to indicate that these are anything but fresh factory cells.

If you want a container load, they will sell it. The problem batteries all seem well above average batteries (the vast majority, and the good ones will copy the circuit board style busbars). Good design and construction.

Some previous batteries from BB might not measure up, I don't know. These are top notch design and components from what I have seen.

They should fix the design to take weight from stacking on the cells. New sheet metal type design work. Make it horizontal instead.

 

[Picasso]

No one will be copying "circuit board style busbars"....

 

[colemab]

Did anyone ever hear back from the new commenter? I couldn't find a unit with that size (in wh or ah) on their site. I also couldn't find the comment on youtube when I went to look this morning.

I'd like to know more about this as I have 4 of the hawks (on their backs) and was looking to expand to 8 eventually.

 

[Gazoo]

I also couldn't find the comment on youtube when I went to look this morning.

The comment was posted in the update video. It's there.

 

[solarbot]

No one will be copying "circuit board style busbars"....

What don't you like about it, insufficient ampacity? I had a nagging doubt about that, it just doesn't look like a whole lot of metal compared to a copper busbar, but maybe it is enough. It does tidy the wires.

 

[Just John]

What don't you like about it, insufficient ampacity? I had a nagging doubt about that, it just doesn't look like a whole lot of metal compared to a copper busbar, but maybe it is enough. It does tidy the wires.

High end motherboards currently for sale have no problems with 90+ amps in the CPU power delivery section. Getting 150+ amps is not a problem.

It makes it much easier to service, if for example, a cell leaks.

 

[Will Prowse]

I agree. Why did the CEO feel the need to lie? And this isn't the first thread he has lied in. White grease anyone...?


That's true. However the battery manufacturer gave BB the ok to assemble them with the cells on their sides. While I won't argue against mounting the cells vertically and that is the best way, a cells vent should never leak even if the cell is mounted upside down.

The whole "white grease" fiasco was just ridiculous.

 

[Atomic Ed]

I think he meant, don't orient the cells on their side. Do lay the Bigbattery pack on its back, which orients the cells upright and gives you a drip catcher should that ever be needed. Quick take: I'm not liking that vertical standing concept at all. It appears to be entirely for looks and not practicality.

Thanks, that is what I understood, which is essentially laying the unit on its back horizontally so the internal cells are not on their backs.

After thinking about this whole thing all night, I am now once again unsure of the whole thing. Usually I can make decisions quickly on things but with this whole solar parts industry being so hard to obtain things right now, to me its very difficult.

I was able to order an additional solar panel via Amazon last week. It was supposed to arrive yesterday and stated so until it never showed up and then this morning the updated me to say they are having difficulties in sending my panel and the money I paid them was back in my account this morning. Ugghhh!

I purchased the Hawk battery through a solar supplier not directly from BB, so all I can do is either wait and hope that I get a good one or just cancel it. However with the way things are right now, I'm afraid I won't even be able to find something similar right now to substitute for it.

This whole solar thing is very exciting to me but right now it seems easier to obtain a Flux capacitor than the solar parts I need to finish my setup

 

[Chris-Bishop]

I’m new to large lithium based power supplies. I use them to charge and power professional film cameras, lights, and monitors on set as well as chargers etc.
recently I bought a couple of “Power Can” lithium batteries with a claimed 750wh capacity.
the first one I bought worked brilliantly so I ordered a second. These large bright orange cases, quite heavy at about 15kg each.
when it arrived the box looked rough and it had a rather odd strong chemical smell.
once I opened the box the protective plastic bag was wet, and as I pulled the battery out, chemicals ran down my arm onto my hand followed by burning sensation. The fumes at this point were strong causing breathing issues for my young disabled son who was in the room watching Dad.
I quickly moved the battery out of the room.
the company has offered a new replacement and a part refund. The unit probably got bashed about during shipping. The metal case did have a dent.
What surprised me was how toxic the chemicals and fumes were.
no warning of possible leaks is given or what to do in the small manual. I understand this can be dangerous?

 

[Just John]

I’m new to large lithium based power supplies. I use them to charge and power professional film cameras, lights, and monitors on set as well as chargers etc.
recently I bought a couple of “Power Can” lithium batteries with a claimed 750wh capacity.
the first one I bought worked brilliantly so I ordered a second. These large bright orange cases, quite heavy at about 15kg each.
when it arrived the box looked rough and it had a rather odd strong chemical smell.
once I opened the box the protective plastic bag was wet, and as I pulled the battery out, chemicals ran down my arm onto my hand followed by burning sensation. The fumes at this point were strong causing breathing issues for my young disabled son who was in the room watching Dad.
I quickly moved the battery out of the room.
the company has offered a new replacement and a part refund. The unit probably got bashed about during shipping. The metal case did have a dent.
What surprised me was how toxic the chemicals and fumes were.
no warning of possible leaks is given or what to do in the small manual. I understand this can be dangerous?

Do you have a link where you purchased those?
My google-fu is lacking, can't find them on the big battery site.

Eco-worthy seems to sell them on aliexpress. Apparently I can't get them unless I'm in the UK.

280.7US $ |Eco-worthy Portable Power Station Solar Power Generator 750wh Ac Input Lifepo4 Battery High Efficiency For Outdoor Camping Rv - Storage Batteries - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

And yes, the electrolyte is quite toxic.

 

[Will Prowse]

Holy cow!!! That's a huge leak. That smell must be awful! Yours leaked more than mine. Yikes!

 

[Just John]

Holy cow!!! That's a huge leak. That smell must be awful! Yours leaked more than mine. Yikes!

Yes, that's a lot more than a "small leak", that's more like "we split all the cells wide open" type of problem.

 

[Picasso]

What don't you like about it, insufficient ampacity? I had a nagging doubt about that, it just doesn't look like a whole lot of metal compared to a copper busbar, but maybe it is enough. It does tidy the wires.

It can absorb electrolyte, burn, warp, and fracture. The board design posted in pics here lacks any stiffening support. The negatives far out way the benefits ESPECIALLY in a pack that might see mobile use. https://stormpowercomponents.com/bus-bar/circuit-board-stiffeners/

 

[Just John]

It can absorb electrolyte, burn, warp, and fracture. The board design posted in pics here lacks any stiffening support. The negatives far out way the benefits ESPECIALLY in a pack that might see mobile use. https://stormpowercomponents.com/bus-bar/circuit-board-stiffeners/

From my experience, resin impregnated fiberglass is not very adsorbent.
You are interested in mobile, I'm not.
I think it is an elegant solution both from a manufacturing and service standpoint, you disagree.
Done.