LED flicker with Schneider XW Pro

[rfsam]

Anyone here has this infamous LED flicker with XW Pro? That's my third inverter. First two are EG4 6500x and SunGoldPower LF 6000w/48V.
I see about the same level of flickering with 6500x and XW Pro. I got XW Pro few weeks ago from Signature Solar. Don't have InsightHome yet, so don't even know what firmware it's running. I assume not very recent. 6500x is on the recent (or almost recent) firmware. Of course not all LEDs flicker but those that flicker with EG4 seems to continue to flicker with XW Pro. Although I have one LED on dimmer (the only dimmer I have in a house) which flicker the less on XW Pro compared to other two! Now, SunGoldPower has the least flickering IMO on same LEDs compared to others (except for the only light that's on dimmer).
I was really hoping that XW Pro will be as close to grid as possible (that's what Signature Solar owner said in one of his recent videos!). And it's great in general except for the transformer noise and this flicker issue.
I hope the flickering issue will be less when I get my InsightHome and use the latest firmware.
Idle consumption: EG4 6500x and SunGoldPower LF - both ~100W idle. XW Pro - somewhere between 25W and 30W. Huge win for XW Pro here if you don't have massive system with lots of PV and batteries. Also EMI is quite low for XW Pro. On opposite it's super high for SunGoldPower and that's one of the reasons I decided to go with XW Pro. Power wise SunGoldPower was fine for my purposes.
Thank you!

 

[rfsam]

Quick update. I noticed that some LEDs flicker less or flicker is almost gone when output power gets higher than 1kW! Interesting enough inverter's transformer noise also gets quieter when it comes to 1kW. And at idle or within 500W it's actually louder. I wonder if at low power there are some "sacrifises" programmed in to actually increase it's efficiency and descrease idle consumption which results in less stable sinewave -> flicker? Of course at high power like 3kW or up it gets louder again but I alsmost don't hear it at 1.4kW or so.

 

[Zapper77]

Quick update. I noticed that some LEDs flicker less or flicker is almost gone when output power gets higher than 1kW! Interesting enough inverter's transformer noise also gets quieter when it comes to 1kW. And at idle or within 500W it's actually louder. I wonder if at low power there are some "sacrifises" programmed in to actually increase it's efficiency and descrease idle consumption which results in less stable sinewave -> flicker? Of course at high power like 3kW or up it gets louder again but I alsmost don't hear it at 1.4kW or so.

Hate to say it...but you have LED flicker with different brands and models....it may be your wiring or a specific device that's causing the issue. In my case deep freezer compressor, HVAC blower motor and one of my computer UPS. BTW if you want disco fever try a 3D printer.

 

[kennyb]

My xw+ has flicker. I've checked for floating neutral and have determined that the led drivers are just shit.

 

[knexbuilder]

I am sorry you are having trouble.

I ran 2 eg4 EX6500 for 6 months and had light flicker issues, even with the upgraded firmware. I first noticed it on my LED Christmas lights back in December and it wasn't the look I wanted haha. Just recently I upgraded to two Schneider XW pro units from signature solar and haven't had even the first flicker. I have many LED recessed lights (on dimmers), lightbulbs and even a few incandescent bulbs and no flicker. The lights do momentarily dim slightly when a large load like the heat pump kicks on, but then its back to smooth power. The heat pump sounds silky smooth compared to when I was running it off the EX6500s. Very clean power from the Schneider units.

I would suggest getting home insight, it is worth while to have. Upgrading the firmware may fix your problem. Also, if you don't need it, I would turn off the AC coupling setting. Doing so made my unit somewhat quieter when it was under load.

One thing about dimmer switches. Just about all LEDs have a flicker point when they are turned down as low as the dimmer will go. Even on grid. That is why most led dimmers have a tuning dial on the front where you can adjust the bottom range of the dimmer to stop the dimming before the flicker appears. Might be worth playing with.

 

[knexbuilder]

Updating the firmware will be the first troubleshooting step Schneider or signature solar will suggest. My inverters arrived three weeks ago, but they still had an old version of the firmware. Manufacturing date shows July 2022. Yours are probably similar.

 

[rfsam]

Updating the firmware will be the first troubleshooting step Schneider or signature solar will suggest. My inverters arrived three weeks ago, but they still had an old version of the firmware. Manufacturing date shows July 2022. Yours are probably similar.

Great info in your previous post, thank you! Yes, I ordered InsightHome. Really hoping that firmware update will fix it mostly. The particular LED brand that flickers the most is GE. And it flickers until XW Pro gets more load from other stuff regardless of what it is (resistive loads, fluorescent lights, motors, etc...).

 

[Cuemaker]

I was told it was because of cheap LED lights, mine are also GE shop lights from Sam's Club.

 

[NC_hydro]

Most LED bulbs flicker even on grid power(when viewed at 120-240fps), it's not the power its the LED driver. I have ONE LED bulb that doesn't flicker and for the life of me I keep trying different brands to find ones that don't flicker but to no avail. Our Lutron office LED lights at work do no flicker. And by flicker I mean not visible flicker but flickering if you film with 120 or 240fps slow motion video and play it back. If the flickering is visible to your naked eye then that is different.

 

[n2aws]

My entire house is LED, I only have 3 lights that flicker, and all 3 of those are "generic" brand. Try this test: remove one of the flickering LEDs, and swap it with one of the LEDS that doesn't flicker. does the problem go away? It did in my case, pointing to the LED bulb itself. As a result, I moved those 3 offending/flickering bulbs into closets that rarely have the lights on.

 

[rfsam]

Most LED bulbs flicker even on grid power(when viewed at 120-240fps), it's not the power its the LED driver. I have ONE LED bulb that doesn't flicker and for the life of me I keep trying different brands to find ones that don't flicker but to no avail. Our Lutron office LED lights at work do no flicker. And by flicker I mean not visible flicker but flickering if you film with 120 or 240fps slow motion video and play it back. If the flickering is visible to your naked eye then that is different.

Sorry for the delayed reply. Yes Fluorescent stuff flickers 120Hz but LEDs may or maynot do that at 120Hz depending on power supply design.

 

[rfsam]

I was told it was because of cheap LED lights, mine are also GE shop lights from Sam's Club.

Sorry for the delayed reply. I mostly (or only) have "big brand" LEDs from GE, Philips and Feit. Unfortunately it's all about how much money big brand manufacturer decided to "save" on the particular LED's power supply. Some LEDs flicker, some don't. I have LEDs that doesn't flicker even connected through a LED dimmer and some does (same dimmer!). I have LEDs that never flicker even connected through an old non-LED (incandescent) dimmer and some that flicker without dimmers. Go figure...

 

[rfsam]

My entire house is LED, I only have 3 lights that flicker, and all 3 of those are "generic" brand. Try this test: remove one of the flickering LEDs, and swap it with one of the LEDS that doesn't flicker. does the problem go away? It did in my case, pointing to the LED bulb itself. As a result, I moved those 3 offending/flickering bulbs into closets that rarely have the lights on.

Sorry for the delayed reply! So I did some testing since I got my first HF inverter (before Schneider XW Pro). Some LEDs never flicker no matte what! And I tested some non-brands that just never flicker (but CRI was poor so I returned them). Some brand names will always flicker with direct (non-dimmer) connection and some don't even with old non-LED dimmer! Some flicker only when connected in parallel (same circuit branch) with low power factor loads (like Laptop power supplies and etc.) and stop flickering when connected in parallel with good power factor loads.
I also noticed that older (purchased 5-10 years ago) LEDs flicker less or never flicker compared to similar new-design LEDs. Good examples is old style 60W Philips E12 (candelabra) bulb with extensive visible power supply and new E12 60W candelabra bulb that looks much better (almost like incandescent). First one almost never flickers and new one flickers all the time. You may assume where was the cost cutting done

Finding a proper LED may not be easy especially if you want low-EMI one (low interference to radio equipment) and non-flickering one. And it doesn't directly correlate to their market price, or being brand name or non-brand.

P.S. Old style LEDs I mentioned above:



And newer design:

 

[rfsam]

Updating the firmware will be the first troubleshooting step Schneider or signature solar will suggest. My inverters arrived three weeks ago, but they still had an old version of the firmware. Manufacturing date shows July 2022. Yours are probably similar.

Did all updates after I got InsightHome. It probably helped a bit, but I'm not sure Either way I almost got rid of the LEDs that flicker a lot.