Marine battery compartment: don’t place lead acid and lifepo4 in the same box…

[Goboatingnow]

Do you have a link to a suitable cell/battery.

There’s not a huge choice but gets a typical spec for a 12v drop in

 

[BroomJM]

Certainly LTO is way safer and more capable then AGM , a mere review of the specs shows that.

Not sure what a Li-Ti cell is.

Li-Ti is short for lithium-titanate, just as LiFePO4 is short for lithium iron-phosphate. LFP and LTO are also acceptable abbreviations.
The battery you linked to is not suitable for cranking large outboards in cold conditions. It's probably fine in warmer temps, with engines that start easily, but it's not even close to providing the same CCA as a 100ah AGM battery. These newer options are great for many things, but cranking in cold conditions just isn't one of them. That's why you don't see many batteries being marketed for such.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Li-Ti is short for lithium-titanate, just as LiFePO4 is short for lithium iron-phosphate. LFP and LTO are also acceptable abbreviations.
The battery you linked to is not suitable for cranking large outboards in cold conditions. It's probably fine in warmer temps, with engines that start easily, but it's not even close to providing the same CCA as a 100ah AGM battery. These newer options are great for many things, but cranking in cold conditions just isn't one of them. That's why you don't see many batteries being marketed for such.

Can you define cold and why 600-900 CcA isn’t enough To start an outboard,m

 

[Hedges]

"It measures how much current (measured in Amps) a new, fully charged 12V battery could deliver for 30 seconds while maintaining 7.2V at 0°F (-18°C)."

Cold Cranking Amps: Everything You Need To Know (+9 FAQs)

Learn what Cold Cranking Amps are, what it represents, and why it’s important to you and your vehicle.

www.repairsmith.com

I haven't found battery specs for this "large outboard" yet, but likely 500 CCA and maybe 600-900 CCA won't be enough.

Verado 600hp | Mercury Marine

7.6L V12 Furthering the legacy of the Verado® engine family, Mercury reimagined outboard performance to deliver the ultimate luxury boating experience. With the unwavering strength of a V12 powerhead, the 600hp Verado outboard delivers extraordinary range and performance to take your boating...

www.mercurymarine.com

Here's an 100 Ah AGM battery with 1150 CCA

ODX-AGM31 (31-PC2150S) ODYSSEY Extreme Series Battery | ODYSSEY® Battery

Looking for an ODX-AGM31 (31-PC2150S) ODYSSEY Extreme Series Battery? Buy it online at OdysseyBattery.com - the official manfacturer's website. Whether it's a battery for your car, boat, RV, a powersports battery or a heavy duty / commercial application battery - powerful performance starts here!

www.odysseybattery.com

 

[BroomJM]

Can you define cold and why 600-900 CcA isn’t enough To start an outboard,m

I think Hedges pretty much covered it. What will work on an easy-starting engine at 75 degrees may not work on a cantankerous old 2-stroke, at 27 degrees. AGM's are superior when it comes to CCA, plus they're the correct chemistry for the current your alternator puts out.

Please don't misunderstand, because I really like every type of lithium-ion battery, but they're not the right answer for every application.

 

[Goboatingnow]

I think Hedges pretty much covered it. What will work on an easy-starting engine at 75 degrees may not work on a cantankerous old 2-stroke, at 27 degrees. AGM's are superior when it comes to CCA, plus they're the correct chemistry for the current your alternator puts out.

Please don't misunderstand, because I really like every type of lithium-ion battery, but they're not the right answer for every application.

Sure under 10 degrees without battery heaters is an Li drawback but as a starter LTO is far far superior in available cranking amps then AGM.

 

[BroomJM]

Sure under 10 degrees without battery heaters is an Li drawback but as a starter LTO is far far superior in available cranking amps then AGM.

If that's true, ask yourself why no automobiles or diesel trucks or tractors (which require even more CCA) use LTO? LTO is "superior" , in some ways, but not when it comes to cold cranking amps. I don't know why you're having a hard time wrapping your head around that, but it's just the facts.

 

[Goboatingnow]

If that's true, ask yourself why no automobiles or diesel trucks or tractors (which require even more CCA) use LTO? LTO is "superior" , in some ways, but not when it comes to cold cranking amps. I don't know why you're having a hard time wrapping your head around that, but it's just the facts.

I am having a hard time because I’m right.

LTO is currently expensive that’s all , it will blow AGMs away. As AGM is a horrible lead acid battery ruined by its PSOC issues

Here some lto specs note thd huge cranking Amps from a 60 ah note the operating temp. Note the staggering cycle times. ( 300 for AGM )30,000 cycles at full current. The average outboard will be scrap iron before the battery fails.

This battery is capable of 10s of 900A no AGM can come anywhere near it

Note the -40 degree C operating range your puny outboard is likely frozen to a brick anyway. ( or the operator is dead )

Lead is dead baby , within a few years LTO will sweep AGM rubbish away, good riddance.

Wrap your head around thd AGM trouncing tech coming your way soon

Lto as a battery tech just depth charges AGM

 

[BroomJM]

I am having a hard time because I’m right.

LTO is currently expensive that’s all , it will blow AGMs away. As AGM is a horrible lead acid battery ruined by its PSOC issues

Here some lto specs note thd huge cranking Amps from a 60 ah note the operating temp. Note the staggering cycle times. ( 300 for AGM )30,000 cycles at full current. The average outboard will be scrap iron before the battery fails.

This battery is capable of 10s of 900A no AGM can come anywhere near it

Note the -40 degree C operating range your puny outboard is likely frozen to a brick anyway. ( or the operator is dead )

Lead is dead baby , within a few years LTO will sweep AGM rubbish away, good riddance.

Wrap your head around thd AGM trouncing tech coming your way soon

Lto as a battery tech just depth charges AGM

Not sure why you feel the need to be dismissive when having a simple discussion.

The AGM battery in my boat is capable of 1200 CCA (30 seconds worth). It's a VMAX XAC31. My puny 135HP 4-stroke never needs more than 5 to 10 seconds of cranking to start up, but it's nice knowing I can do that, even when it's 30 degrees outside.

I agree that lead-acid batteries are falling out of favor, but "within a few years" they will still be made and sold, because there are far too many applications for which they ARE the right solution. LTO is cool and it's definitely a better solution, in several ways, but price will cause it to lose out to SLA/AGM in some applications, weight will cause it to lose out to NMC/LFP/LMFP in other applications, and the fact that it does NOT make a good 12v battery (the voltages just don't add up) will also limit its adoption.

If you're going to make bombastic comments, you should at least get your facts straight, first.

 

[curiouscarbon]

LTO is still expensive, no denying that.

whatever chemistry whoever uses, the performance characteristics are quite impressive.

not sure if it will become drastically more affordable in a few years, though that sounds really nice.

someone using lead acid is in no way offensive to me. personally the long service life and lack of acid spillage chance are quite appealing to me.

good luck to everyone building ?

 

[JeepHammer]

View attachment 107102

Painfully obvious in hindsight, but my lead acid battery overheated at some point, spewing out some water and sulfuric acid.

You can see the corrosion it caused to the lifepo4 terminals.

Hindsight... 2020 but with a brown crap crust around it since you are looking out your butt!

Respectfully, I did a thing with fire suppression, CO2 or Argon (cheap and easily obtainable) right in my battery box.

Having done flooded lead acid for over 20 years off grid, I'm fully aware of the gas/corrosion issues, particularly with the starting version of FLA. They off gas like crazy, and as soon as the gas hits outside air it condenses on EVERYTHING for feet to yards around.

A suggestion... there are caps that hold a little water in them, the gasses have to pass through the water where the acid condenses. They come in the standard sizes, It doesn't stop the hydrogen/explosion issue, but it sure saves terminals and cables, any metal around the batteries.