New house, need power!!

[matsimaginarium]

Bonjour,

I am currently renovating a barn/house for my family and I to live in in the south of France. It has no mains electricity and I do not plan to get it so will be relying entirely on the solar system and a backup generator for the foreseeable future. I would really appreciate advise on this as it is not one of my strengths.

I have purchased the following

-Epever UP5000 Hybrid Inverter/Charger
-4x Plyontech US2000c
-16x Longi 410w panels

They will be installed on a roof of approx 20° facing South-east.

I had planned to wire them in 8 pairs to keep the current low. Is this the optimum set up?

The charger controller is only rated to handle 5Kw of panels but I have 6.5Kw. I plan to have the possibility of isolating two pairs of the panels from the system during summer when they might produce close to peak power. Does this sound okay or is there are better option?

I have attached some photos that will hopefully be helpful. Thanks in advance, any help at all is most appreciated.

Mat

 

[400bird]

I had planned to wire them in 8 pairs to keep the current low. Is this the optimum set up?

I'd recommend longer strings, two panels in series doesn't even hit the minimum voltage listed (at VMP) so either the MPPT won't start or won't be able to produce max power from the panels.

I'd probably two strings of 8 panels each.
Looks like you might have two MPPTs on that inverter. If so, one string of 8 to each MPPT if not, both to one MPPT, assuming you don't have much shading and that the full specs work out.

The charger controller is only rated to handle 5Kw of panels but I have 6.5Kw.

This is fine. Common in fact.
Panels almost never produce rated wattage, only on absolutely perfect days.

I plan to have the possibility of isolating two pairs of the panels from the system during summer when they might produce close to peak power. Does this sound okay or is there are better option?

Don't do that, just hook them all up. The inverter can handle over paneling. Some manufacturers provide a spec that is 150-200%

I have attached some photos that will hopefully be helpful. Thanks in advance, any help at all is most appreciated.

A link to the inverter and batteries where the manual can be downloaded would allow someone to double-check everything.

I'm not sure if you desire battery communication or if it is supported on either side (battery or inverter)

 

[JunkyAdam]

I recently helped a friend set up a similar solar system for their off-grid cabin. It can be a bit tricky, but it’s definitely doable. Your setup looks solid, especially with the panels wired in pairs to manage the current. I think isolating two pairs during peak production in summer is a smart move to protect your charge controller.

When I was researching solar options, I found some great resources on https://sandytimes.ae/articles/194/what-you-need-to-succeed-as-a-real-estate-agent-in-dubai. They cover a lot of practical advice, not just for real estate but also for general project management.

 

[Steve_S]

Rule #1 is already broken here.
We ALWAYS tell everyone to do the research, ask a lot of questions, learn & understand what you are dealing with, ten come up with a plan FIRST and THEN start buying things. It NEVER Ends well when someone buys things and then says "what do I do with all of this now". Read that as a warning for your Wallet & Bank Account ! (Also heps keep spouses happier and an unhappy spouse is best avoided, whenever possible).

Consider that you NEED Optimized Generation both in Summer _AND_ Winter ! It's not uncommon to have solar setup to optimize (compromise) solar generation for lesser solar days (winter) because the 12 hour sun days in summer can generation a lot more over that time frame, versus when you only have 6 hours of sun. If you MAX generation for summer, you will be terribly short on generation in December. IT IS AN AFTERTHOUGHT !

Word of Warning about Over Panelling. A LOT of equipment can only tolerate a minimal amount of Over Panelling and it CAN & WILL Fry your equipment if you exceed Maximum Limits (No Joke - No Hahaha)

Those Batteries - PylonTech: They are ODDBALLS !!! The Industry Standard for a 48V LFP Battery is 16S (16 cells in series) which provides an "Allowable Voltage Range of 40.0V to 58.4V or a "WORKING VOLTAGE (what is normal usage curve daily) of 48.0 to 54.4 which is the range that delivers the Actual Amphour rating of the battery packs. PylonTech Batteries are 15S and were designed as drop-in replacement for Telecoms Equipment that has NO Ability to use anything but a Flooded Lead Acid battery profile. These have an Allowable Voltage Range of 37.5V to 54.75V with a Working Voltage Range of 45.0V to 51.0V. You are now MARRIED to PylonTech as other normal 16S Battery Packs will not be entirely compatible with these and they will get drawn down in capacity because of it, additionally their Comminucations/Interoperability may but work with other brands of BMS (Battery Management Systems) within the packs.

FACT: I am Offgrid & Solar Powered. Twice a year for 2 weeks, My Solar Arrays produce ABOVE Ther ratings and I do go into Overpanenel protection mode because my hardware (Midnite Solar Controllers) have HyperVOC built-in to deal with tat (95% of companies DO NOT) and even then my system will go into safety mode. If I used other SCC's, even Victron, they would have been burnt to a crisp.

Proper solar array design will incorporate "compromises" to effectively produce power Year Round. This of course accounts for the longer & sdunnier days of summer where you have a longer generation time frame per day than in mid winter. Ensuring you get good generation through the day you have to seriously consider the Worst Production time frame (normal Dec. Jan. in Northern hemisphere).

 

[yabert]

-Epever UP5000 Hybrid Inverter/Charger
-4x Plyontech US2000c
-16x Longi 410w panels

I had planned to wire them in 8 pairs to keep the current low. Is this the optimum set up?

Bonjour

Not a bad set up at all.
8 pairs? You mean 2 pairs of 8 panels in series to have 2 strings of around 250Vdc, right?
It's the good way to connect them.
Good luck and share pictures of the install.

 

[Louis_8]

Bonjour,

I am currently renovating a barn/house for my family and I to live in in the south of France. It has no mains electricity and I do not plan to get it so will be relying entirely on the solar system and a backup generator for the foreseeable future. I would really appreciate advise on this as it is not one of my strengths.

I have purchased the following

-Epever UP5000 Hybrid Inverter/Charger
-4x Plyontech US2000c
-16x Longi 410w panels

They will be installed on a roof of approx 20° facing South-east.

I had planned to wire them in 8 pairs to keep the current low. Is this the optimum set up?

The charger controller is only rated to handle 5Kw of panels but I have 6.5Kw. I plan to have the possibility of isolating two pairs of the panels from the system during summer when they might produce close to peak power. Does this sound okay or is there are better option?

I have attached some photos that will hopefully be helpful. Thanks in advance, any help at all is most appreciated.

Mat

I have some concerns about your set up. Wiring the panels 8 pairs may not be a clean way of doing it on your roof with a roof at 20° and facing South East. With 8 panels in series the voltage will be high and you can lose a lot of power down to the MPPT voltage (175V for a 48V battery) but then when you use 8 pairs you loose even more power through the charge controller. With panels framing at 20° I would not wire them in 8 pairs. You should wire 2 sets (or 4 if you want to use the full 6.5Kw capacity) in series and then connect them in parallel to get the full 48V battery voltage and the maximum 5Kw of the charge controller. You will loose a bit of energy down to the MPPT voltage (up to 4% of the rated power or about 4Kw of loss per year). The charge controller has a limit of 5Kw so the 8th pair would be more of a waste of money. Your idea of disconnecting 2 pairs of panels may be a good way to get around this. If you want me to check how to wire the 6.5Kw of panels using different charge controllers I would suggest you also tell me about the 48V battery and the back up generator as that may change the best set up for you. You also have to tell me how many hours of sun per day you are getting in the worst month of the year where you are. Some clients are better advised to increase the panel number, increase the battery capacity, increase the generator capacity or any combination of the 3.

 

[Steve_S]

Angles & Degrees for Toulouse France.

 

[aragonx]

FACT: I am Offgrid & Solar Powered. Twice a year for 2 weeks, My Solar Arrays produce ABOVE Ther ratings and I do go into Overpanenel protection mode because my hardware (Midnite Solar Controllers) have HyperVOC built-in to deal with tat (95% of companies DO NOT) and even then my system will go into safety mode. If I used other SCC's, even Victron, they would have been burnt to a crisp.

Maybe I just got lucky but I over voltaged my Victron SCC and it just said "Over voltage" and refused to do anything until I fixed it. Which was a bit latter (an hour?) before I saw the error. Maybe it was the amount I was over too. I was only over by about 30%ish. I also over voltaged my Renogy SCC by about 5%. It also just complained and refused to do anything until I fixed it. Which was a few days because I had to have support figure out what the issue was.

So over voltage will end up getting you zero (best case. Worst case you fry your stuff) energy and should be avoided. Well, I got zero energy anyway.

 

[matsimaginarium]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your in depth replies.

I have cleared trees around the place so shouldn't have shading to worry about.

I choose this set up as I currently live off-grid with a similar one. 4 X 400w panels with a hybrid inverter/charger and 2 plyontech us2000c. It is for a yurt we rent and during the two winters I've spent here we havent faced much of a power shortage, only after two weeks of no sun did I have to shut everything off.
I sized up because of my requirements but tbh had no idea about the limitations of plyontech, they seem to be pretty common out here.

I have a generic Chinese 4.8kw generator, long term I will be looking to create power through other sources.

Currently planning to go with the two strings of 8, i will try and find info on what the inverter can take and if I need to install something to prevent overpowering it. As recommended I have attached some more info. I will be getting this hooked up over the next week or so I'll post an update.

Thanks again, I really appreciate all your advice and support!

Mat

 

[Steve_S]

I want to also address a common misconception that some have. Not sure that it applies here but is a factor.

I run a Large Bank compared to what "I need". Case in point I use no more than 4.0kWh per day (year round) and so for 3 days autonomy (no generation) I would require 12kWh but because of my location (near Algonquin Park Ontario Canada) it's not unusual to have 2 weeks without much of any sun and with overcast & snow, solar can be "tough" so I have 43kWh of battery to cover my butt for 10 days. Here is the GOTCHA though, I have run my bank down to 10% and had to run the Generator (ugh I hate that) to recharge it BUT with 8 hours runtime It gives me close to 8 days of battery power. 1 Hour genny time = 1 day (24 hours). With my new configuration (1 array optimized for winter & 1 array optimized for Average Generation) I likely will not need my Genset unless an extreme period occurs.

Again, I cannot understate that during summer in "optimal sunny conditions" you can generate a hell of a lot more than in winter and it is better to optimize for the short sun hour days because that is when you will need every Watt, whereas in summer you have long & productive days that make up for it.

 

[yabert]

Currently planning to go with the two strings of 8, i will try and find info on what the inverter can take and if I need to install something to prevent overpowering it. As recommended I have attached some more info.

Please clarify those info.
On the picture of your first post, there is a sticker on the inverter showing 500Vdc PV OCV.
But it only 200Vdc on the spec sheet.

 

[matsimaginarium]

Salut,

I've managed to get hold of more information, if I understand the graph correctly my best option is in fact to connect them all in series as otherwise I will still not be making the voltage required to connect anywhere near the maximum amount of solar panels. Can I get some confirmation on this please?

Thanks,

Mat

 

[yabert]

if I understand the graph correctly my best option is in fact to connect them all in series

Well, 16x Longi 410w panels in serie will give you something around 500-600Vdc, so no it not a good solution.
Your MPPT can take 120-500Vdc, so 2 series of 8 panels is best.
3 series of 5 will work too.

 

[matsimaginarium]

Hi, finally got it all connected, just running on 8 panels at the moment as it is high summer and that is sufficient for testing. Don't think I've done anything stupid but the inverter/charger is really unhappy whenever I turn on the batteries, starts showing a fluctuating voltage across PV, batteries and load. Any ideas?

 

[yabert]

57.5V battery???
Is not those Pylontch are 15S LFP?... so max 54V.

 

[matsimaginarium]

That is what it reads when disconnected from the batteries

 

[matsimaginarium]

Having switched everything off and reset it it now read 0v

 

[yabert]

It seem like there is a programing problem or a communication problem between batteries and inverter.
I can't help much because I have no experiment with Pylontech, but if you can use both battery and inverter without communication, you can probably set up the inverter with proper charging/discharging voltage to match Pylontech.
Now the inverter seem program for 16 cells LFP battery or 4 12V lead acid.

 

[matsimaginarium]

I have it set for LFP15 and the manual even has specific settings for Plyontech but it's not functioning.

 

[matsimaginarium]

When connected with the CAN port it does the voltage fluctuation thing and throws up BME (battery management error) but if disconnected it works for 10 seconds the throws up the BME code again and cuts the battery off. I've contacted the manufacturer and hopefully they can shed some insight.
Thanks for you replies

 

[matsimaginarium]

Doing more research has led me to be an answer hopefully. Some other threads on here mention a BMS link and bimble solar is quoted below so I feel a bit let down by the company who sold me this kit which was meant to be ready to go. I'll post an update when this arrives.

"This unit is required when using managed lithium batteries, like Pylontech US2000 and US3000, and the Epever Lithium compatible inverters."

 

[matsimaginarium]

Hooked up the unit from above and everything is working!