New Lux Power LXP-LB-US 12k / GSL-H-12KLV-US with 200A AC Passthrough Current (US Market)

[Not Aerosmith]

DIY Battery is best for the money if you know what your doing…

Point taken, which was the reason that I didn't originally want to consider DIY batteries. Another reason is that I don't have the space for a setup similar to yours nor does my wife want lithium batteries inside the house.

There are options now for the complete kits with instructions to duplicate wall mounted batteries like the ones that I bought or floor mounted with wheels. I now have 2 sources that could help or do the work for me, if it is too complicated or too much effort. My main focus is to be able to replace a bad cell or BMS in an emergency situation. A warranty would be useless in an emergency situation.

After GSL took 5 months to delivered 2 new batteries, I have zero confidence in GSL warranty or how long it would take to return and get a new battery under their 15 years warranty. The DIY batteries where I could replace a cell or BMS seems like a better option than a warranty from China.

My opinion of warranties is that they cover absolutely everything except what breaks and it is never the manufacturer fault.

 

[houseofancients]

Point taken, which was the reason that I didn't originally want to consider DIY batteries. Another reason is that I don't have the space for a setup similar to yours nor does my wife want lithium batteries inside the house.

There are options now for the complete kit with instructions to duplicate batteries like the one that I bought. I now have 2 sources that could help or do the work for me, if it is too complicated or too much effort. My main focus is to be able to replace a bad cell or BMS in an emergency situation. A warranty would be useless in an emergency situation.

After GSL took 5 months to delivered 2 new batteries, I have zero confidence in GSL warranty or how long it would take to return and get a new battery under their 15 years warranty. The DIY batteries where I could replace a cell or BMS seems like a better option than a warranty from China.

My opinion of warranties is that they cover absolutely everything except what breaks and it is never the manufacturer fault.

docan will be delivering the seplos mason boxes ( rebadged) , prebuild, from Houston..
i believe these are the highest AH boxes available in the US, and consist of 16 x 280ah docan cells , the seplos bms and fuse , prebuild.....

not sure what the cost will be , but 15 Kwh in 1 19"box isnt too shabby

 

[llaforest]

I have heard of home assistant, but not SPAN. When I looked at home assistant, I was looking for something that works without the internet. I will investigate both systems for this application.

For HomeAssistant, you can check Home Assistant Yellow, a small headless computer that runs natively HA with useful hardware. If you want to use locally without Internet, you just need to make sure the devices, sensors, etc you add in HA are compatible to use that way. You can check Shelly, they build good devices that can all work locally with no Internet access. There are tons of them, you just need to check they have a possible local access before buying them.

 

[llaforest]

I have a question about the generator function. We are about to buy a Cummins RS20A 20kW automatic generator. I assumed that the ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) would not be required since the LXP 12K would manage the grid 200A relay and the generator 100A playing the same role an ATS would play.
But now I am unsure so is there anyone that connected an automatic generator on this inverter?
If yes I wanted to know what kind of control wire the inverter supplies to control the generator?
I am also looking for the installation manual now that I'm waiting for delivery to prepare the site for its arrival.

 

[Luxpower_Gilbert]

I have a question about the generator function. We are about to buy a Cummins RS20A 20kW automatic generator. I assumed that the ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) would not be required since the LXP 12K would manage the grid 200A relay and the generator 100A playing the same role an ATS would play.
But now I am unsure so is there anyone that connected an automatic generator on this inverter?
If yes I wanted to know what kind of control wire the inverter supplies to control the generator?
I am also looking for the installation manual now that I'm waiting for delivery to prepare the site for its arrival.

https://eg4electronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EG4-18KPV-12LV-Manual-1.3.0.pdf read pages 20-21. GEN Auto Start in not ready yet...

 

[Dcuste]

I have 6 EG4 LifePower4 batteries connected to a LuxPower 12k. I had all the batteries near 90% charged and the 12k on standby. After four days, I checked and all the batteries had completely discharged. Both the logs from the 12k and SolarAssistant showed zero current flow in or out of the batteries. Here is a summary of the voltage and SOC as recorded by the 12k.
The battery voltage started dropping. It went from 52.7v down to 52.4 by the end of 6/13/23 and 51.7v by the end of 6/14/23, 51.3v by the end of 6/15, 51.0v 6/16, 50.5v 6/17, then it dropped dramatically down to 43.9v by the end of 6/18. This whole time the SOC was reported as 97%. Then at 0747 the battery was at 42.8v 96% SOC and at 0752 46.3v 0% SOC
Here are grafts from SolarAssistant.



My hypotheses was that the batteries were self charging and discharging, so last night I charged to 85% SOC and turned on just one battery connected to the 12k. This morning the battery is down to 79% with the 12k showing zero charge/discharge from the battery. I've run out of ideas that would explain what is going on here. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[llaforest]

GEN Auto Start in not ready yet...

Oh this is concerning... The pdf you shown to me is for the gen2 of the inverter. I will be getting gen1 and from the documentation of the gen1 unit, they explain the same thing about 'GEN (NO,NC port)' but there is no disclaimer that the feature is not yet implemented.
Can someone confirm that the generator auto-start has not been implemented yet on any gen1 or gen2 devices?
Is there a chance that Luxpower will provide the functionality with a firmware update in the near future on both gen1 and gen2?
In the mean time, if I have a generator, how am I supposed to connect it if the inverter does not control it?
If there is power failure and the batteries are low, and I manually start the generator, what makes the 100A relay close to charge the batteries?
If I start the generator while the grid is present, I hope the generator relay won't be opened?
***I assume the the grid relay is mutually exclusive with the generator relay, like an ATS to avoid destroying everything?***

These are very important points to know before connecting together two power sources such as the grid and a generator...

 

[Zwy]

I have 6 EG4 LifePower4 batteries connected to a LuxPower 12k. I had all the batteries near 90% charged and the 12k on standby. After four days, I checked and all the batteries had completely discharged. Both the logs from the 12k and SolarAssistant showed zero current flow in or out of the batteries. Here is a summary of the voltage and SOC as recorded by the 12k.
The battery voltage started dropping. It went from 52.7v down to 52.4 by the end of 6/13/23 and 51.7v by the end of 6/14/23, 51.3v by the end of 6/15, 51.0v 6/16, 50.5v 6/17, then it dropped dramatically down to 43.9v by the end of 6/18. This whole time the SOC was reported as 97%. Then at 0747 the battery was at 42.8v 96% SOC and at 0752 46.3v 0% SOC
Here are grafts from SolarAssistant.
View attachment 153656
View attachment 153657

My hypotheses was that the batteries were self charging and discharging, so last night I charged to 85% SOC and turned on just one battery connected to the 12k. This morning the battery is down to 79% with the 12k showing zero charge/discharge from the battery. I've run out of ideas that would explain what is going on here. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

View attachment 153658
View attachment 153659
View attachment 153660

Inverter was on in that time? There is idle draw, it is used to power the unit, screen and controls board.

Most inverters do not account for the watts needed to run the unit. I have a Batrium with a shunt and it will show the overhead the LV6548 inverters consume and it showed the watts the EG4 6500EX's used at idle.

The Lifepower 4 is 5.12Kwh so 10% would be 512Wh. If 8 hours run time, that would be 64 watts for overhead idle draw.

 

[Eddie_LuxPowerTek]

read pages 20-21. GEN Auto Start in not ready yet...

Sorry we didn't update to you this @GRV0423.
the GEN Autostart is functional, we have tried it with many different kinds of Generators in the States.
little note: >6kVA generator can activate the autostart only. (Nobody uses that small generator for this application I believe).
See the setting tips, attached.

 

[Eddie_LuxPowerTek]

Reason for the above "only >6kVA can activate the autostart" :
Due to the potential voltage fluctuations in smaller generators, generally we recommend a capacity of 10kVA or higher. This is because after the generator starts, it needs to power the load and charge the battery. If the generator capacity is too low, it's necessary to limit the input power.

 

[Quattrohead]

If you have an inverter and batteries running your house or RV, I do not know why you'd want the generator power to be passed through directly. It seems better that the generator just provides voltage to charge the batteries and let the inverter carry on powering the loads itself. Personally I would get rid of generator pass through feature and just have it as a charging source.

 

[Luxpower_Gilbert]

Sorry we didn't update to you this @GRV0423.
the GEN Autostart is functional, we have tried it with many different kinds of Generators in the States.
little note: >6kVA generator can activate the autostart only. (Nobody uses that small generator for this application I believe).
See the setting tips, attached.

Thanks good to know it’s working…

 

[Luxpower_Gilbert]

Been playing with HA integration with GSL inverter and my Tesla Solar/Powerwall system.. HA been doing graet to control the ac charging of the GSL inverter, HA always equalize the tesla solar production between the DIY battery and the tesla powerwall to charge them.. i also use the grid peak shaving feature during the night or on a cloudy day, to equalize the load output of the GSL and the powerwall to provide the load of my house.
Since the latest update the inverter wont closed communication with my daly bms so i also integrated it with HA to control it.

 

[Eddie_LuxPowerTek]

Been playing with HA integration with GSL inverter and my Tesla Solar/Powerwall system.. HA been doing graet to control the ac charging of the GSL inverter, HA always equalize the tesla solar production between the DIY battery and the tesla powerwall to charge them.. i also use the grid peak shaving feature during the night or on a cloudy day, to equalize the load output of the GSL and the powerwall to provide the load of my house.
Since the latest update the inverter wont closed communication with my daly bms so i also integrated it with HA to control it.

COOL!

 

[Eddie_LuxPowerTek]

I have 6 EG4 LifePower4 batteries connected to a LuxPower 12k. I had all the batteries near 90% charged and the 12k on standby. After four days, I checked and all the batteries had completely discharged. Both the logs from the 12k and SolarAssistant showed zero current flow in or out of the batteries. Here is a summary of the voltage and SOC as recorded by the 12k.
The battery voltage started dropping. It went from 52.7v down to 52.4 by the end of 6/13/23 and 51.7v by the end of 6/14/23, 51.3v by the end of 6/15, 51.0v 6/16, 50.5v 6/17, then it dropped dramatically down to 43.9v by the end of 6/18. This whole time the SOC was reported as 97%. Then at 0747 the battery was at 42.8v 96% SOC and at 0752 46.3v 0% SOC
Here are grafts from SolarAssistant.

My hypotheses was that the batteries were self charging and discharging, so last night I charged to 85% SOC and turned on just one battery connected to the 12k. This morning the battery is down to 79% with the 12k showing zero charge/discharge from the battery. I've run out of ideas that would explain what is going on here. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Hi @Dcuste
It depends on whether the inverter is set to lead-acid mode. In lead-acid mode, the battery SOC (State of Charge) is not calibrated in standby mode without charging or discharging. If it is set to lithium mode and the SOC is not calibrated, you need to confirm with your battery supplier. However, if the losses are lower than the battery's discharge detection current, there may not be any changes in SOC because SOC is calculated based on the product of current and time, not voltage. Even if the inverter is set to standby mode, if the power backup/off-grid output function is enabled, the power loss is around 50W. Disabling the off-grid output mode can reduce the losses. I hope this msg can help a bit. Thx

 

[llaforest]

It seems better that the generator just provides voltage to charge the batteries and let the inverter carry on powering the loads itself. Personally I would get rid of generator pass through feature and just have it as a charging source.

In my case, with the whole home backup, when the 20kW (83A) generator starts, it will charge the batteries @50A and power the rest of the house with the remaining 30A without problems. This will allow the generator to work for a shorter period before it shuts down for another 24h...

the GEN Autostart is functional, we have tried it with many different kinds of Generators in the States.
little note: >6kVA generator can activate the autostart only. (Nobody uses that small generator for this application I believe).
See the setting tips, attached.

Very happy it is functional, it would have been a bad news for me. Not too sure what you say about the size... Basically if the generator is bigger than 6kW, it must be started through the two wire relay is that what you say? What other way of starting it could it be?
Looking at the 'Whole Home Backup with Feeder Tap' drawing at page 31 which is my case, I think I do not need an ATS with my generator and inverter. Is that right?

 

[Dcuste]

Inverter was on in that time? There is idle draw, it is used to power the unit, screen and controls board.

Most inverters do not account for the watts needed to run the unit. I have a Batrium with a shunt and it will show the overhead the LV6548 inverters consume and it showed the watts the EG4 6500EX's used at idle.

The Lifepower 4 is 5.12Kwh so 10% would be 512Wh. If 8 hours run time, that would be 64 watts for overhead idle draw.

True but there were 6 of the batteries (6 X 5.12 = 30.7kwh) connected in parallel that in about 30 hours went from 96% to 0% SOC. That works out to about 1Kwh per hour. How could it draw that much power without generating a lot of heat? Where did all that energy go?

 

[Dcuste]

Hi @Dcuste
It depends on whether the inverter is set to lead-acid mode. In lead-acid mode, the battery SOC (State of Charge) is not calibrated in standby mode without charging or discharging. If it is set to lithium mode and the SOC is not calibrated, you need to confirm with your battery supplier. However, if the losses are lower than the battery's discharge detection current, there may not be any changes in SOC because SOC is calculated based on the product of current and time, not voltage. Even if the inverter is set to standby mode, if the power backup/off-grid output function is enabled, the power loss is around 50W. Disabling the off-grid output mode can reduce the losses. I hope this msg can help a bit. Thx

The 12k is set to Lithium and even though the voltage dropped, the SOC didn't drop until the battery shut down. However the SolarAssistant did show the SOC dropping in steps. I included an spreadsheet that showed all the data from the 12k as the battery discharged.

I don't have a "off-grid output" mode. I do have a "Run Without Grid" that is enabled, but that doesn't explain how the inverted used 30Kwh of energy in 30 hours. Where did all the energy go? I tested to make sure it wasn't used by anyother parts by disconnecting the battery cable from the 12k and turning on the batteries. There is no power being used with the 12k disconnected from the battery. What other tests should I do to figure this out?
did show the SOC dropping in steps.

 

[Sun in Lithium]

The 12k is set to Lithium and even though the voltage dropped, the SOC didn't drop until the battery shut down. However the SolarAssistant did show the SOC dropping in steps. I included an spreadsheet that showed all the data from the 12k as the battery discharged.

I don't have a "off-grid output" mode. I do have a "Run Without Grid" that is enabled, but that doesn't explain how the inverted used 30Kwh of energy in 30 hours. Where did all the energy go? I tested to make sure it wasn't used by anyother parts by disconnecting the battery cable from the 12k and turning on the batteries. There is no power being used with the 12k disconnected from the battery. What other tests should I do to figure this out?
did show the SOC dropping in steps. View attachment 153880

Do you have them communicating with a data cable to the inverter? for the state of charge to be Accurate, that needs to happen.

How are you reading the SOC with SolarAssistant, emulated or data cable?

 

[Luxpower_Gilbert]

The 12k is set to Lithium and even though the voltage dropped, the SOC didn't drop until the battery shut down. However the SolarAssistant did show the SOC dropping in steps. I included an spreadsheet that showed all the data from the 12k as the battery discharged.

I don't have a "off-grid output" mode. I do have a "Run Without Grid" that is enabled, but that doesn't explain how the inverted used 30Kwh of energy in 30 hours. Where did all the energy go? I tested to make sure it wasn't used by anyother parts by disconnecting the battery cable from the 12k and turning on the batteries. There is no power being used with the 12k disconnected from the battery. What other tests should I do to figure this out?
did show the SOC dropping in steps. View attachment 153880

Make sure the closed communications between your battery and inverter is working correctly. What was the voltage of the battery when it show 0%.