New Lux Power LXP-LB-US 12k / GSL-H-12KLV-US with 200A AC Passthrough Current (US Market)

[Luxpower_Gilbert]

Okay, I will give him the 2 dongles' serial number's. Only the serial numbers and not the PIN???

You have to install your inverter first, why not do it now, they can work as a regular grid tie inverter… you can transfer all your string from your exiting grid tie inverter.. and once your battery come you can just install it and change the setting on the inverter that you have battery.

There is no harm in giving him the serial numbers, since the inverters are neither installed nor connected to the internet. It is still my decision when the software is updated. Hopefully, by the time I get the batteries and install everything, the updated software will be completely functional.

I didn't know that we needed an update for the display, since I have never turned them on. Do we also need a password to access certain settings???

All they need is your SN#.

From your post, it sounds like they still are not going to provide me with a file that I can use to update the firmware that it is only done remotely.

The latest firmware i have the only thing that don’t work is the ac couple on the Gen port when the inverter Is connected to the grid. Offgrid work flawlessly.

However, I seem to remember that someone posted in this thread that they received a file to update their firmware. Unfortunately, there are over a 1000 posts in this thread, so finding a single post will be difficult. I will save this search as a last resort should I not be able to get a firmware update when I need it.

Yes! So far I received 2 update for the screen and i had to do it. They usually send it to email but sometimes it doesn’t work when email is from China. So they recommend to have a WHATSUP APP account..

 

[jjfmetal123]

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[elusivesd]

When I receive the 560Ah of batteries, I do intend to install the 2 new GSL inverters and the 2 new GSL batteries. If AC couple do not work, I will simply pay to connect all the solar panels to the the 2 new GSL inverters. I do intend to add between 5-10 KW of solar panels, which will definitely be connected to the new hybrid inverters. My production last year with 15 KW of GT inverters was around 80% of my consumption and I have not bought an electric car .... yet.

What are your string voltage(s)? If you are able to move over your PV to the hybrid inverters, that would be best. I find the LP inverter to be quite a bit more efficient than my original grid-tie inverter. It also removes the added complexity of AC coupling.

 

[elusivesd]

one more thing you said you think GSL is just a reseller but that the manufacturer was Luxpower. I thought the UL listing was under GSL?

GSL is the OEM, LuxPower is the ODM. Similar to how Deye is the ODM for Sol-Ark (and others).

If unfamiliar, here's a very simplified explanation:
ODM: Original Design Manufacturer. This is the company that basically creates the reference design, often sold to other OEM's as a "white label" product. If the ODM also sells/supports the end user, it can also be considered an OEM.
OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer. This is the company which buys ODM designs, makes modifications as needed (ex: logo, firmware), and sells to/supports the end user.

Basically, an OEM can typically buy a ODM design, slap their label on it, and resell to the customer. Manufacturing is almost always done by the ODM, unless the design itself was purchased.

 

[koppted]

GSL is the OEM, LuxPower is the ODM. Similar to how Deye is the ODM for Sol-Ark (and others).

If unfamiliar, here's a very simplified explanation:
ODM: Original Design Manufacturer. This is the company that basically creates the reference design, often sold to other OEM's as a "white label" product. If the ODM also sells/supports the end user, it can also be considered an OEM.
OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer. This is the company which buys ODM designs, makes modifications as needed (ex: logo, firmware), and sells to/supports the end user.

Basically, an OEM can typically buy a ODM design, slap their label on it, and resell to the customer. Manufacturing is almost always done by the ODM, unless the design itself was purchased.

Thanks

 

[Not Aerosmith]

The latest firmware i have the only thing that don’t work is the ac couple on the Gen port when the inverter Is connected to the grid. Offgrid work flawlessly.

Yes! So far I received 2 update for the screen and i had to do it. They usually send it to email but sometimes it doesn’t work when email is from China. So they recommend to have a WHATSUP APP account..

I am 76 and not physically able nor do I have yours, fromport and elusivesd years of experience and expertise in testing and troubleshooting solar equipment.

I need to hire my original solar contractor to install the new system and modify my existing system. It takes about a day to drive to and from Panama City to Santiago, I do not want to pay for multiple trips while the work is being done in pieces over weeks or months. I do not want to hire a contractor without a finite scope of work and with the equipment ready to be installed.

I am very concern about asking a contractor to install owner furnished equipment not fully functional and being told that I need to resolve this with the manufacturer or in my case a GSL salesman. I really do not want to install new GSL inverters not knowing their true capabilities.

 

[Not Aerosmith]

What are your string voltage(s)? If you are able to move over your PV to the hybrid inverters, that would be best. I find the LP inverter to be quite a bit more efficient than my original grid-tie inverter. It also removes the added complexity of AC coupling.

If you look at the GSL USER MANUAL, there is a manual bypass switch in the schematic in paragraph 3.9 PARALLEL SYSTEM CONNECTION. The text reads, "WHEN THE INVERTERS FAIL, THE USERS CAN SWITCH THE LOAD TO UTILITY."

Wonder if I should follow the manufacturer lead or concerns and have a manual bypass switch so that when the GSL inverters fail, I can switch back to the GT inverters.

To answer your question, I have been seriously considering connecting all solar panels to the new inverters. GSL may say that they can AC couple, other inverters but Fronius are not easily fooled. I am concern that even if the AC couple worked during a test that it might stop working in a week or more and I will need to pay the contractor to come back and rewire the solar panels in another project.

 

[elusivesd]

If you look at the GSL USER MANUAL, there is a manual bypass switch in the schematic in paragraph 3.9 PARALLEL SYSTEM CONNECTION. The text reads, "WHEN THE INVERTER FAILS, THE USERS CAN SWITCH THE LOAD TO UTILITY."

Wonder if I should follow the manufacturer lead or concerns and have a manual bypass switch so that when the GSL inverter fails, I can switch back to the GT inverters.

To answer your question, I have been seriously considering connecting all solar panels to the new inverters. GSL may say that they can AC couple, other inverters but Fronius are not easily fooled. I am concern that even if the AC couple worked during a test that it might stop working in a week or more and I will need to pay the contractor to come back and rewire the solar panels in another project.

That's fair... Not sure how many strings you have, but maybe switch one of them to GSL first to gain confidence in the system? That way if you do find the need to bypass, you're not totally out.

 

[Not Aerosmith]

Sorry, I deleted an old joke with a current example to avoid the possibility of offending anyone.

 

[jjfmetal123]

If you look at the GSL USER MANUAL, there is a manual bypass switch in the schematic in paragraph 3.9 PARALLEL SYSTEM CONNECTION. The text reads, "WHEN THE INVERTERS FAIL, THE USERS CAN SWITCH THE LOAD TO UTILITY."

interesting does anyone know where this is located or if there even is one? @Not Aerosmith I was thinking the same thing with with installing the manual bypass but man if there is one built in that would be nice

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

Received a response from my salesman:
View attachment 133186
I have told him this several times. The last time when I told him that the GEN port only works off grid, his response was "really". No other response, except now to send him my logger number of the inverters, so they can update remotely. GSL is a reseller with salesmen. I wished that I had done what fromport did and bought my 2 inverters from LUXPOWER. However, my only option now is to make work what I have bought.

When I receive the 560Ah of batteries, I do intend to install the 2 new GSL inverters and the 2 new GSL batteries. If AC couple do not work, I will simply pay to connect all the solar panels to the the 2 new GSL inverters. I do intend to add between 5-10 KW of solar panels, which will definitely be connected to the new hybrid inverters. My production last year with 15 KW of GT inverters was around 80% of my consumption and I have not bought an electric car .... yet.

One interesting thing I found out is that the liniotech version of this inverter is supplied by GSL and not by Luxpowertek... So basically Lux----->GSL----> liniotech

 

[Not Aerosmith]

interesting does anyone know where this is located or if there even is one? @Not Aerosmith I was thinking the same thing with with installing the manual bypass but man if there is one built in that would be nice

I like the wording "when inverters fail" instead "when you update inverters settings or firmware". Obviously, not expected to last



Manual bypass switch is furnished by the installer and not part of the inverter.

 

[Not Aerosmith]

Same conversation about AC couple again this morning and again with no results:

Nick Pan2023-02-05 21:26
we can only update the inverters after you connect it to the internet.

Nick Pan2023-02-05 21:26
Our inverters have UL certificate so that you can sell the power to the grid

Steve Tyler 2023-02-06 07:12
The manual say to connect to EPS port and you can sell to the grid.

Nick Pan 2023-02-06 07:12
Yes

Steve Tyler 2023-02-06 07:13
You told me that to AC couple that I needed to connect to the GEN port.

Nick Pan 2023-02-06 07:16
Connect your inverters to the gen port

Steve Tyler 2023-02-06 07:16
DIY member tried this and the AC couple works wonderfully, but only off grid.

Same conversation as last week and his reply was "really". This time no reply, but it is late and maybe he needs to talk to someone to reply, because he obviously do not know or care.

So far, telling him repeatedly that GEN port only works offline and unable to sell to the grid is probably not important to GSL. The fact that I can not sell my production to the grid is not GSL problem. If I want to AC couple connect to the GEN port, otherwise do not AC couple or wait for another update to AC couple through the EPS port.

The fix is an easy software change with an option for the GEN port to sell to the grid or not sell to the grid. So far, GSL have not told me this or that GEN port sells to the grid or that the EPS port also works for AC couple. GSL have only told me to AC couple through the GEN port. GSL have never said that the AC couple will let you sell to the grid only how to AC couple.

 

[Not Aerosmith]

I HAVE A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AC COUPLE GT INVERTERS.

Is there any reason, why I can't simply connect my GT inverters directly to the grid as they are connected now. Each of the (3) GT inverters are connected with a 30A breaker to a single designated electrical panel. This electrical panel is connected to the grid with an 80A breaker. If I added a manual bypass switch, I could connect this 80A breaker to the two GSL inverters GEN ports or directly to the grid ... not both.

GRV0423 has already attests that the GEN port works great off grid. The GT inverters would normally be connected to the grid. If the grid is down for an extended period of time, I can manually switch the GT inverters to the GEN port.

A very big advantage is that I do not need to wait for GSL to solve the AC couple problem and I do not need to worry, if GSL can fool Fronius Primo inverters that the grid is still working. I still have my GT inverters, "when the inverters fail" (in GSL own words). No changes to the existing solar panels or the existing GT inverters or the Fronius smart meter, which saves me money in construction cost.

My production last year was 80% of consumption, which means I need a little less than 4 KW solar panels to match production. I intend to add an additional 6 KW of solar panels connected to a GSL inverter. I am adding 28.6 KWh 560Ah of GSL batteries, so during a normal power outage < 8 hours, I do not need the existing GT inverters for off grid UPS function. I would only need to use the manual bypass switch during an extended outage over 8 hours, which has not happen at my home for over 17 years.

 

[Luxpower_Gilbert]

I HAVE A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AC COUPLE GT INVERTERS.

Is there any reason, why I can't simply connect my GT inverters directly to the grid as they are connected now. Each of the (3) GT inverters are connected with a 30A breaker to a single designated electrical panel. This electrical panel is connected to the grid with an 80A breaker. If I added a manual bypass switch, I could connect this 80A breaker to the two GSL inverters GEN ports or directly to the grid ... not both.

GRV0423 has already attests that the GEN port works great off grid. The GT inverters would normally be connected to the grid. If the grid is down for an extended period of time, I can manually switch the GT inverters to the GEN port.

Just put the GSL Inverter (EPS OUTPUT) before the panel of the 3 exiting gt.

A very big advantage is that I do not need to wait for GSL to solve the AC couple problem and I do not need to worry, if GSL can fool Fronius Primo inverters that the grid is still working. I still have my GT inverters, "when the inverters fail" (in GSL own words). No changes to the existing solar panels or the existing GT inverters or the Fronius smart meter, which saves me money in construction cost.

Connect your existing gt inverter through the EPS OUTPUT of the GSL inverter, it will work normally as it is now and also it will also charge your battery when the grid is down…

My production last year was 80% of consumption, which means I need a little less than 4 KW solar panels to match production. I intend to add an additional 6 KW of solar panels connected to a GSL inverter. I am adding 28.6 KWh 560Ah of GSL batteries, so during a normal power outage < 8 hours, I do not need the existing GT inverters for off grid UPS function. I would only need to use the manual bypass switch during an extended outage over 8 hours, which has not happen at my home for over 17 years.

With storage it will cover 100 % of your consumption.
My DIY battery from 14k to 54k now and with my tesla solar/powerwall i have about 95kw AC storage now..

 

[Not Aerosmith]

Just put the GSL Inverter (EPS OUTPUT) before the panel of the 3 exiting gt.

Connect your existing gt inverter through the EPS OUTPUT of the GSL inverter, it will work normally as it is now and also it will also charge your battery when the grid is down…

With storage it will cover 100 % of your consumption.
My DIY battery from 14k to 54k now and with my tesla solar/powerwall i have about 95kw AC storage now..

According to the manual and specifications, your statements should work with one GSL inverter.

I believe that GSL has finally substantially complied with the GSL inverter specifications for one inverter. GSL actually make very few statements that they need to comply with when connected in parallel and even fewer statements when connected in parallel and AC couple.

GSL is telling me that to parallel my inverters that I need to download the latest update and AC couple through the GEN port. I have several times asked about AC coupling with the EPS port as you and the manual instructed. GSL only response is to connect to the GEN port.

I told them that a DIY member tested connecting to the GEN port and determined that this only works off grid. They ignore the statement and say to AC couple to the GEN port. GSL makes no claims that parallel inverters can sell to the grid when AC couple, so this is not a GSL concern. For this reason, I am trying to find my own solution that works for me and does not conflict with GSL solution.

My solution was to comply with GSL and AC couple through the inverters GEN ports. The only difference is that I want to add a manual transfer switch to disconnect the GT inverters from the grid and AC couple them to the GEN port only when I need to charge the batteries off grid. I hope that I never need to use the manual transfer switch to AC couple.

 

[Luxpower_Gilbert]

We just keep back and forth, i myself, i know that and originally (on the manual) ac couple works on EPS OUTPUT with or without grid…

AC couple on the Gen Port is new feature of the inverter with the new firmware.

 

[Luxpower_Gilbert]

single or parallel, feature still the same,
with parallel the advantage is more power output.

 

[koppted]

I can verify what "Not Aerosmith" said above. You can't purchase from GSL anymore without buying batteries.

 

[elusivesd]

According to the manual and specifications, your statements should work with one GSL inverter.

I believe that GSL has finally substantially complied with the GSL inverter specifications for one inverter. GSL actually make very few statements that they need to comply with when connected in parallel and even fewer statements when connected in parallel and AC couple.

GSL is telling me that to parallel my inverters that I need to download the latest update and AC couple through the GEN port. I have several times asked about AC coupling with the EPS port as you and the manual instructed. GSL only response is to connect to the GEN port.

I told them that a DIY member tested connecting to the GEN port and determined that this only works off grid. They ignore the statement and say to AC couple to the GEN port. GSL makes no claims that parallel inverters can sell to the grid when AC couple, so this is not a GSL concern. For this reason, I am trying to find my own solution that works for me and does not conflict with GSL solution.

My solution was to comply with GSL and AC couple through the inverters GEN ports. The only difference is that I want to add a manual transfer switch to disconnect the GT inverters from the grid and AC couple them to the GEN port only when I need to charge the batteries off grid. I hope that I never need to use the manual transfer switch to AC couple.

In some cases, GEN ports are physically incapable of bridging itself to the grid, as there is absolutely zero reason to do so, and it brings in major safety concerns. Furthermore, it is unclear on how this port will interact with the inverter when it comes to UL1741 features - in a grid-down scenario with minimal load and full batteries, what happens?

We know the EPS and GRID ports are bridged together in a 'grid up' scenario, and EPS is capable of controlling UL1741 AC coupled inverters when the grid is down.

IMHO, it is generally not a good idea to power a port intended for generators with PV, as many features (including a few safety related ones) may not operate as intended. However, depending on firmware and circuit design, it may be a "GEN" port by name only and this all becomes a moot point. Only the manufacturer would know for sure...

Edit: Looked through the docs again. "When generator is started, all the loads connected to EPS will be supplied by the generator. Meanwhile battery will be charged. The pass-through relay on the generator port is 100A. When generator is on, please ensure the total load and charge current will not exceed 100A."

This reads to me as - you will not have power from the grid, and the internal inverter will also be disabled. Any loads you have connected to the EPS port will also be powered directly by the generator. Batteries will charge.

If I'm reading this right, I can tell you right now - this is not going to play nice at all with your AC coupled GT system, as you will not have any 'buffer' capacity from the batteries, and no AC coupling will exist to begin with... as there is no AC signal coming in to start your inverters.