New Property in township with no power ! Help

[Shimmy]

But does that $1/kwh include the cost of the generator itself? A generator is probably necessary to avoid winter outages no matter how infrequently it's used.

I think it was operating only, but the majority were under say 30kW where you should see some minor efficiency improvements.

edit- if you are using red-dye diesel instead of propane the delta might be cut in half.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

The numbers people have reported here all seem to be in the $1/kWh range for diesel/propane, and $0.05/kWh for direct PV. Well utilized (80% DoD average annually) batteries are an additional $0.10/kWh.

When you oversize by a factor of two for winter PV production, and triple the battery size for bad days that puts you at $0.40/kWh, still saving you $0.60/kWh over running a generator. You still need the generator, but you want to run it as little as practical; in Maine I would expect you can get it down to <800 hours/year* with a reasonably sized PV/battery system.

* Equivalent hours per year - Presumably it would have ~1/3 the engine hours buffered with battery charge/discharge.

If you already have a farm I am assuming you have a Tractor and can therefore use a PTO generator running off road red fuel.

25KW WINCO PTO Generator less than $4,000.
As long as you have 50 HP at your PTO
You have a relatively reliable cheaper source of power.

 

[Shimmy]

If you already have a farm I am assuming you have a Tractor and can therefore use a PTO generator running off road red fuel.

25KW WINCO PTO Generator less than $4,000.
As long as you have 50 HP at your PTO
You have a relatively reliable cheaper source of power.

Running off your PTO cuts efficiency in about half from everything I have read. Great if you need something in the field, but not for powering your stationary systems.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Running off your PTO cuts efficiency in about half from everything I have read. Great if you need something in the field, but not for powering your stationary systems.

Not sure where you got that from.

You have to run the tractor about 2000 RPMs to get the PTO to turn at 540 but that’s it.

I use my WINCO 25KW on the back of my Kubota to charge my system.

A 25KW water cooled diesel stand alone Generator is expensive and only does 1 thing.

A tractor can do all kinds of things and you probably have one if on a farm.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Not sure where you got that from.

You have to run the tractor about 2000 RPMs to get the PTO to turn at 540 but that’s it.

I use my WINCO 25KW on the back of my Kubota to charge my system.

A 25KW water cooled diesel stand alone Generator is expensive and only does 1 thing.

A tractor can do all kinds of things and you probably have one if on a farm.

Wow, a quick duckduckgo search and I found out DC pto generators exist... ?
Thanks for giving me more bright ideas.

PTO Battery Chargers & DC Generators | Innotec Power

Innotec Power specializes in PTO Generators for battery charging applications. Learn from our experience or speak with our experts.

www.pmgenerators.com

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Wow, a quick duckduckgo search and I found out DC pto generators exist... ?
Thanks for giving me more bright ideas.

PTO Battery Chargers & DC Generators | Innotec Power

Innotec Power specializes in PTO Generators for battery charging applications. Learn from our experience or speak with our experts.

www.pmgenerators.com

I’ve not seen those in actual use but I knew they existed.
If you can get one to do DC then you avoid the conversion loses.
Not sure what the KW ratings are.

I have a small stand alone DC generator 3kw that I use occasionally to keep the temperature up and seals wet.

I looked at those a while back because with the ZFS6 transmission you can use a Muncie PTO.
Just bolts on the side.

 

[Shimmy]

You have to run the tractor about 2000 RPMs to get the PTO to turn at 540 but that’s it.

My point is that how much fuel do you burn an hour running your tractor at 2000RPM with the generator attached to the PTO and generating (say) 25kW? My understanding (which could be wrong) was that you ended up needing about 3 engine HP per kW, compared to a packaged generator that is going to be closer to 1.5.

A tractor can do all kinds of things and you probably have one if on a farm.

Completely agree, and running a PTO generator on a tractor is a great solution in an emergency or if you need power far away from any fixed electric installation.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

My point is that how much fuel do you burn an hour running your tractor at 2000RPM with the generator attached to the PTO and generating (say) 25kW? My understanding (which could be wrong) was that you ended up needing about 3 engine HP per kW, compared to a packaged generator that is going to be closer to 1.5.

It 2 HP per KW regardless of fuel usage.
You don’t get Engine HP at the PTO is that what you’re talking about?

I haven’t ever done a fuel usage to KW produced analyst.

As far as the efficiency between a dedicated and a PTO, I would assume a direct connection engine to genhead would be more efficient than a PTO

It just seems to me if he has a farm, I am assuming he has a tractor he would be better off with a PTO VS buying a dedicated stand alone generator.

After all you are trying to size your solar system to cover the usage except in really low production months
Having a dedicated Genset sitting there for 9-10 months year doing nothing VS hook up a PTO genset when you need the power.

 

[Doggydogworld]

When you oversize by a factor of two for winter PV production, and triple the battery size for bad days that puts you at $0.40/kWh, still saving you $0.60/kWh over running a generator.

The problem with that math is that 2x PV cost applies to all your kWhs, not just the ones that displace generator usage in winter. Same for the 3x battery cost.

 

[SilverbackMP]

It 2 HP per KW regardless of fuel usage.
You don’t get Engine HP at the PTO is that what you’re talking about?

I haven’t ever done a fuel usage to KW produced analyst.

As far as the efficiency between a dedicated and a PTO, I would assume a direct connection engine to genhead would be more efficient than a PTO

It just seems to me if he has a farm, I am assuming he has a tractor he would be better off with a PTO VS buying a dedicated stand alone generator.

After all you are trying to size your solar system to cover the usage except in really low production months
Having a dedicated Genset sitting there for 9-10 months year doing nothing VS hook up a PTO genset when you need the power.

No way would I want my primary tractor being a generator driver though. Now if you have something like one or more Perkins powered MF 65s, 165s, 265s gathering dust, then it becomes a better proposition. I call em mobile motors.

 

[Shimmy]

The problem with that math is that 2x PV cost applies to all your kWhs, not just the ones that displace generator usage in winter. Same for the 3x battery cost.

True, but that is the joy of being off grid, no?

If you are CapX constrained then generator + minimal PV and battery makes sense. If you are OpX constrained then you want to minimize long-term costs after the capital expenditure. If you want to properly optimize both then you need a lot more data. Personally, my approach would be to get down to an acceptable number of [equivalent] run hours per year-- something under 2,000 actual running hours for sure, but I would expect the equivalent running hours should be under that threshold; I doubt many would want to run more than 8 hours a day 3 months a year in actual runtime with a modern system.

But it really comes down to what is the demand in each of the seasons, and what is the PV potential at the same time. Without that information nobody can make "the best" recommendation.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

No way would I want my primary tractor being a generator driver though. Now if you have something like one or more Perkins powered MF 65s, 165s, 265s gathering dust, then it becomes a better proposition. I call em mobile motors.

If you’re using it that much, then you don’t have enough PV.

 

[SilverbackMP]

If you’re using it that much, then you don’t have enough PV.

Winter. Maine. Snow.

 

[RV10flyer]

If you’re using it that much, then you don’t have enough PV.

At 45 to 66° angle, the wet snow slides right off of mine quickly when the sun comes out. The drier snow doesn’t build up at all. Love all of the PV 52kW and 20 min of gen per month. Peace and quiet.

 

[Rydermacd]

I have 2 friends in the area we are going and they both run very small homes on a 6,000 watt system I believe is what they said . I need to do more research ! Thank you all for commenting and giving me things to learn about !

It’s much appreciated !!!