New Property in township with no power ! Help

[Rydermacd]

Hey all, new here and this is my first post. My wife and I ( & soon to be plus one!) are moving to Maine on a property (34 acres) mostly cleared in a township with no power. We have decided we will be going with solar to power our home, year round greenhouses, barn & farm stand with commercial kitchen.

So with these buildings being located throughout the property, my first question is, should there be one location with a power/ battery shed that I then run power underground to all locations that need power? Or do I have 2 or more separate locations where I set up panels and a battery shed ? We don’t have endless money, but know this isn’t cheap. Each location/building will have a decent amount of electrical needs.

We have started making a list of components we will be using that need power . Right now our current monthly usage for our home is 1,500 kWh.

I’m still very new to understanding amps, volts, kilowatts, inverters, batteries and panels. I’m
A farmer, so I know I gotta point them south that’s about it haha.

Thank you in advance .

 

[Danke]

If you have a lot of wire to run to different locations, look into a high voltage to cut down on cost.

 

[hwy17]

If the buildings are within 250ft of each other I would do one powerhouse and run power out from there. Probably site the powerhouse nearish to the largest draw, probably the main house. Panels can be far from the powerhouse, the high voltage panel DC power travels well.

I'll throw out my recommendation for Schneider equipment here. I don't assume I can jump to that for everyone but for this application I think it's right sized and you're likely to have motor loads on a farm that can benefit from it's strengths.

If you will be heating and cooking with oil/propane then you can probably start off with one XW Pro. If your intentions are all electric the scale gets a lot more serious.

 

[400bird]

We have started making a list of components we will be using that need power . Right now our current monthly usage for our home is 1,500 kWh.

I’m still very new to understanding amps, volts, kilowatts, inverters, batteries and panels. I’m
A farmer, so I know I gotta point them south that’s about it haha.

I think you're off to a great start. You used the correct units, kWh, not kW as so many newbs do.

Winter is going to be your toughest season. What's your heat source?
Hwy17 is right, distance between buildings and energy used at each site is going to be important to decision making. In my opinion, it's easiest, least expensive, and simplest to use one central battery bank, inverter, and solar array. With separate power sources, each needed to be oversized and you'll end up with more duplicate capacity.

 

[chrisski]

I recommend you look at a site like in my signature block to determine if this plan is feasible.

In winter in Maine, you can expect each panel to produce an equivalent amount of solar power.

This is what 45 kw of panels should produce per day



45 kW is a ridiculous amount of panels, but won’t cover a 1.5 MWh monthly requirement in winter.

A system to cover that will run tens of thousands of dollars. Not undoable, just expensive.

 

[400bird]

I recommend you look at a site like in my signature block to determine if this plan is feasible.

In winter in Maine, you can expect each panel to produce an equivalent amount of solar power.

This is what 45 kw of panels should produce per day

View attachment 167160

45 kW is a ridiculous amount of panels, but won’t cover a 1.5 MWh monthly requirement in winter.

A system to cover that will run tens of thousands of dollars. Not undoable, just expensive.

45kW is a lot of panels!
Looks like it would make about 50kWh per day (just to make the math easy)
50kWh *30 days = 1.5MWh per month

 

[WindWizard]

I live in Maine and have some experience with the Solar in Maine. My recommendation is to build a home with cellar. and then store your batteries down where the temperatures are cool and will not freeze. Temperatures can drop to -30 f and cause issues with the batteries. It is better to just have a cool dry area to store them in.

We heat with wood which is the most cost-effective heat source in Maine. If you do not mind cutting and splitting wood, then it helps to cut heating costs. Hot water is basically free for us with Solar hot water panels/ evacuated tubes. If you heat your house with a wood boiler, then it provides domestic hot water in the winter.

A hot water heat pump is ideal with a solar setup.

Solar panels in Maine are an issue as well. After each snowstorm then the panels will need to be cleared of snow. To maximize the Solar production, then make sure that your panels are ground mount with adjustable tilt.

December has very few solar hours in Maine. It is basically impossible to get enough Solar in Maine to provide enough electricity to run the house. You will need to consider a generator to help with the electricity in December. Most the other months you can get enough depending on the storms that move through.

You could get a propane generator and then have some large propane tanks to help with your electricity needs.

I have around 12kw of panels and 110kwh of battery storage. My electric needs are around 1mwh per month. My panels produce up to 60kwh per day.

I am not sure where you live but you are welcome to come and check out my solar setup. PM me if you are interested.

 

[Rednecktek]

Blurb time? Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease be blurb time!

Blurb time!

Well, I'll start the default answer to these questions and we can work from there. Here's you To-Do list:

1: Power audit! This will give you some important information on how big your inverter needs to be as well as how much battery capacity you'll need. There is a link in the FAQ section (I think, or someone here will post it shortly) so fill in the blanks and see what it comes up with. You'll probably need some sort of Kill-A-Watt to get accurate measurements. Are you going to be running a 12v system? 24v system? 48v system? What are the specs on your solar panels? VoC? Vmp? Being as this is a new build, throw together a wish list of what you want and estimate on the high side.

1a: Where do you live? Speccing out a system for Scotland is a LOT different numbers than Arizona due to the amount of light you actually get. Someone here can post the link to the PVwatts.com or JCR Solar Uber-Sun-Hours calculator sites to help figure out how much you'll have to work with. That will be a box in the Power Audit form.

2: Parts list: You don't need a make & model list, just a parts list to start from for reference. You'll need an inverter, a MPPT charge controller, fuses, shunt, buck converter, batteries, wire, etc. Once you have a basic list it can be fine tuned to make & models after that. If you're looking at the All-In-Ones check for correct voltage outputs (120v or 240v Split Phase for North America, 220v Single Phase for European type areas) and make sure it has enough capacity for a little bit of growth and fudge factor.

3: Budget!: Steak is great but doesn't mean anything if your wallet says hamburger. Figure out what you're able to spend now vs what you'll have to cheap out on now and upgrade later.

4: Tape measure! Figure out where you're going to stick all the stuff you'll need. A dozen 3000AH batteries sounds great until you're sleeping on the floor because there's no room left for a bed. Is there a compartment that can house all this stuff? Will the server rack batteries fit? Are you going to have to make space? Physics can be pretty unforgiving.

5: Pencil out what you think you need and throw it at us so we can tell you what you've missed (because we ALL miss stuff the first go-round ) and help figure out which parts and pieces you're going to want to get.

Well that's the thing about solar systems, there is no 1-Size-Fits-All answer. Your system will need to be designed to fit YOUR needs. When you design and built the system, it's not going to be the perfect system for me, or Will or 12vInstall or anyone else, but it Will be the right system for You and that's the goal.

As for where to get started, let me throw my standard blurb in here to help point you in the right direction. There's going to be a lot of math and research involved, but that's going to be a LOT cheaper than just buying parts off of someone's list and finding out that it doesn't do what you need.

Don't panic on the Power Audit, you'll actually be doing that a few times. When you do the first pass put in ALL the Things that you might want. AirCon? Sure. Jacuzzi? Why not. MargaritaMaster-9000? Go for it.

The second pass will be the "I Absolutely Need This To Survive" list that isn't going to have much on there.

The third pass will be the "This is what is realistic" audit that you'll use to design the rest of the system.

The Power Audit is going to tell you 3 primary things: 1: How big does your inverter need to be to power your loads? 2: How much battery bank do you need to last $N number of days with krappy weather? and 3: How much solar panel will I need to install to refill those batteries in a 4 hour day (the average usable sun hours rule-of-thumb).

Once you know what you Want and what you Need and what your budget can Afford there will be somewhere in that Venn diagram where those three things meet.

After that, THEN you can start looking at parts.

Yes, it's a long drawn out process, but it's worth it in the end. Not every house has the exact same floorplan, not every vehicle is the same make & model, and not every solar system is designed the same.

 

[Hedges]

You need to determine maximum wattage draw from loads operating at one time and maximum surge wattage to start motors.
For kWh usage, determine how much is at night, vs. in the day with sun on PV panels.

I would point you in the direction of a 3-phase 120/208Y system with 3x Sunny Islands, up to 36kW of Sunny Boy [smart energy], up to 72kW of PV panels. If you outgrow that, you can make up to four clusters like this and join them together.

If you want to power 480V equipment, that can be done with transformers but not as simply as you would think, want them optimized more for efficiency (no-load dissipation) that they typically are. You can build a native 277/480Y system with other equipment.

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Schneider which was previously suggested can do similar, and there are others.

 

[Danke]

45 kW is a ridiculous amount of panels, but won’t cover a 1.5 MWh monthly requirement in winter.

A system to cover that will run tens of thousands of dollars. Not undoable, just expensive.

Ridiculous amount is never gonna be enough for many of us. Me personally, I’m going for a ludicrous amount.

 

[SilverbackMP]

Ridiculous amount is never gonna be enough for many of us. Me personally, I’m going for a ludicrous amount.

I’ma shooting for 1.21 gigawatts and an EV that can hit precisely 88 MPH.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Ridiculous amount is never gonna be enough for many of us. Me personally, I’m going for a ludicrous amount.

Ludicrous Speed!!

 

[SamDeleted]

My wife and I ( & soon to be plus one!)

Two wife's ?... phew! I can hardly handle one ?

 

[Shimmy]

An electric commercial kitchen for the farm stand and an electric greenhouse are going to exceed your 1.5MWh/month in December. If the farm stand is just summer seasonal then that becomes bonus capacity for winter.

I would have trouble believing you could get by with less than 20kW inverter capacity and ~120kWh of battery. Without solar panels you are looking at $100k.

I would think the first task is to get a better handle on monthly consumption and compare that to pvwatts over the year.

 

[SamDeleted]

.

 

[SamDeleted]

I would have trouble believing you could get by with less than 20kW inverter capacity and ~120kWh of battery. Without solar panels you are looking at $100k.

It would be over £50k in just gel lead acids! And that's without an inverter

 

[RV10flyer]

Hey all, new here and this is my first post. My wife and I ( & soon to be plus one!) are moving to Maine on a property (34 acres) mostly cleared in a township with no power. We have decided we will be going with solar to power our home, year round greenhouses, barn & farm stand with commercial kitchen.

So with these buildings being located throughout the property, my first question is, should there be one location with a power/ battery shed that I then run power underground to all locations that need power? Or do I have 2 or more separate locations where I set up panels and a battery shed ? We don’t have endless money, but know this isn’t cheap. Each location/building will have a decent amount of electrical needs.

We have started making a list of components we will be using that need power . Right now our current monthly usage for our home is 1,500 kWh.

I’m still very new to understanding amps, volts, kilowatts, inverters, batteries and panels. I’m
A farmer, so I know I gotta point them south that’s about it haha.

Thank you in advance .

We have finally got what it takes to survive on all electric through the winter months. 30-60kWh daily. The online calculators said 16kWpv. Not even close. Total: 52kWpv, 230kWh of LFP. You don’t need need endless money, but you’ll have to do without that new $80,000 pick up truck. I wouldn’t want to pay the new taxes and insurances on those vehicles now. To each his own.

 

[Hedges]

I think a generator and diesel or propane would put a huge dent in required system and costs.
Without a generator you may want enough battery for 72 hours, 3 days autonomy without sunshine, and overpaneled for poor sun days.
With a generator you may only need enough battery for 12 hours, one night without sun.

PV panels can be had for $0.10 to $0.50/W. Mounting hardware cost starts to dominate, but if you have a farm you should be handy enough to greatly reduce that. 72kW of panels $7200 to $36,000.

3x Sunny Island liquidation sales about $10,000 or less, 17kW from battery.

6x Sunny Boy about $10,000 (discontinued model, waiting for price of new.) 36kW from PV (over-paneled SE & SW to 200% of wattage rating)

Battery cost depends on chemistry and capacity. Lead-acid forklift battery sized for 15% DoD overnight could last 20 years. Lithium battery sized for 80% DoD overnight could last 16 years, longer if shallower (based on our understanding of life.)

During the summer, could produce as much as 360 kWh/day, half of which has to be used immediately or production curtailed. Pumping and A/C?
About 170 kWh could be stored in batteries if large enough for night time use.

Hopefully you use much less at night. My system is grid backup, and only accepts about 1/3 or less of PV production for charging relatively small battery.

 

[Shimmy]

I think a generator and diesel or propane would put a huge dent in required system and costs.

The numbers people have reported here all seem to be in the $1/kWh range for diesel/propane, and $0.05/kWh for direct PV. Well utilized (80% DoD average annually) batteries are an additional $0.10/kWh.

When you oversize by a factor of two for winter PV production, and triple the battery size for bad days that puts you at $0.40/kWh, still saving you $0.60/kWh over running a generator. You still need the generator, but you want to run it as little as practical; in Maine I would expect you can get it down to <800 hours/year* with a reasonably sized PV/battery system.

* Equivalent hours per year - Presumably it would have ~1/3 the engine hours buffered with battery charge/discharge.

 

[hwy17]

But does that $1/kwh include the cost of the generator itself? A generator is probably necessary to avoid winter outages no matter how infrequently it's used.