New system pros and cons

[edrivas411]

I am currently researching a new system for off grid. I like my long hot showers but will use a electric commercial tank water heater. I need continuous 200a output just in case as 4 teenagers in the house. I plan on wiring a 200a panel and a 100a subpanel. My question is what equipment is most reliable. Victon, Magnasine, Schneider, or lion energy? I have been looking at Victron with SOC batteries but calculations say I would need 5 10,000 inverters while lion energy would need 3. The cost would also be much greater with Victron. Victron has the advantage of being all seperates so any issue requires a part change while lion energy is all in one so very heavy to ship or repair. I would like to know others feed back on what they would choose and why?

 

[Q-Dog]

What is a lion energy?

 

[zanydroid]

200A is a lot of power for off grid, how are you going to supply that in winter? That’s probably only needed for peak. If you actually needed that you would be paying a ton of bills per month.

Search around the forum for a template for energy audit. And picking the right appliances can reduce the requirements on the inverter side. Shooting from the hip you can buy half a heat pump water heater tank per person in the household and it would be way less than 200A, and you have 20-30 gallons dedicated per person. 3 * 500W in heat pump mode for three tanks.

 

[edrivas411]

200A is a lot of power for off grid, how are you going to supply that in winter? That’s probably only needed for peak. If you actually needed that you would be paying a ton of bills per month.

Search around the forum for a template for energy audit. And picking the right appliances can reduce the requirements on the inverter side. Shooting from the hip you can buy half a heat pump water heater tank per person in the household and it would be way less than 200A, and you have 20-30 gallons dedicated per person. 3 * 500W in heat pump mode for three tanks.

It is a lot of power. I will be removing heating from propane to electric. I live in California so although we get cold, it is a dry cold. It snows rarely but high winds and low temps is common. I preferto over estimate than under estimate. Well, pressure pumps, water heater, AC units, heaters, tools, pool, etc... Lots of power is used daily.

 

[edrivas411]

What is a lion energy?

Lion energy is a manufacturer. Just opening discussion to see what others prefer.

 

[n2aws]

You should probably start with an energy audit.

I have 200a service, but adter monitoring my consumption for 2 years prior to adding solar, I *very rarely* saw my actual consumption peak at 100a. And those spikes were anomalies. (ie, the rare occasion we had washer/dryer/oven/air conditioner/well pumps/water heater all going at the same time. And those occasions happened to be like maybe 3-4x a year (usually around holidays)

Keep in mind, doing an energy audit can do 2 things.

#1) Give you realistic information about how much power you use (and hopefully.. where)
#2) Once you know "where" it's being used.. you can take steps to cut consumption before adding solar.

It's a lot cheaper and easier usually, to reduce consumption and do the "smaller improvements" (replacing lights with LED, hybrid hot water heaters, etc) than it is to buy solar+batteries for the large/wasteful consumption you've likely got.

 

[Solarcabin Channel]

I will be removing heating from propane to electric.

Curious as to why you are getting off propane?

Propane OD water heater would be a lot cheaper than the huge system you will need for electric water heating I think.

 

[再生可能 エネルギー]

I like my long hot showers but will use a electric commercial tank water heater.

How many Gallon has your eletric water heater?

Why not using instead a water heatpump, this would be more efficient.

Note: If you need extra hot water fast, the heatpump can use resistance heating like an eletric water heater,
otherwise heat pump will only use the compressor like a refrigerator but will heat slower.

 

[hwy17]

My question is what equipment is most reliable. Victon, Magnasine, Schneider, or lion energy?

Victron and Schneider.

I looked up Lion and couldn't find an actual inverter product. Share it with us if you have one. But the answer is going to be no they are not the most reliable.

 

[Supervstech]

I am currently researching a new system for off grid. I like my long hot showers but will use a electric commercial tank water heater. I need continuous 200a output just in case as 4 teenagers in the house. I plan on wiring a 200a panel and a 100a subpanel. My question is what equipment is most reliable. Victon, Magnasine, Schneider, or lion energy? I have been looking at Victron with SOC batteries but calculations say I would need 5 10,000 inverters while lion energy would need 3. The cost would also be much greater with Victron. Victron has the advantage of being all seperates so any issue requires a part change while lion energy is all in one so very heavy to ship or repair. I would like to know others feed back on what they would choose and why?

I am confused.

How can one brand of inverter change the number of them required to power your loads?
Can you post up your calculations?
You may be missing or misunderstanding something,

 

[SamDeleted]

What is a lion energy?

It's like horse power , but with more ROAR ?

 

[CoolWill]

No home with a 200 amp service actually gets to 200 amps. The utility transformer couldn't supply it. On my street, there are four houses connected to a 25 kVA transformer. The NEC vastly oversizes services. The power company understands that you will never utilize every single appliance, light, and receptacle all at once.

 

[edrivas411]

You should probably start with an energy audit.

I have 200a service, but adter monitoring my consumption for 2 years prior to adding solar, I *very rarely* saw my actual consumption peak at 100a. And those spikes were anomalies. (ie, the rare occasion we had washer/dryer/oven/air conditioner/well pumps/water heater all going at the same time. And those occasions happened to be like maybe 3-4x a year (usually around holidays)

Keep in mind, doing an energy audit can do 2 things.

#1) Give you realistic information about how much power you use (and hopefully.. where)
#2) Once you know "where" it's being used.. you can take steps to cut consumption before adding solar.

It's a lot cheaper and easier usually, to reduce consumption and do the "smaller improvements" (replacing lights with LED, hybrid hot water heaters, etc) than it is to buy solar+batteries for the large/wasteful consumption you've likely got.

I am also building my shop where I will be welding and doing other things that will all be electric. I do not plan on having continuous 200 amp draw but on occasion, teenagers decide to take hot showers at the same time and the water heater that has worked for me in the winter has a consumption of 90 amps continuous. I have seen my well water as low as 40F so to get the temp up high enough it requires a lot of power. We store our water in metal tanks and a pressure pump gets us the water pressure we need and a gould J15S draws 23amps continuous. if the well pump kicks on then I can see a continuous draw of 17 amps. As you can see it will be a lot of what ifs but the one thing not a what if is a wife. At no time do I want to here how the power is out for even a few moments when I all it will cost me is another inverter. I have worked hard for my shop and all its toys. I have not even started with kitchen appliances or laundry. To get a solid 200 Amp service will be difficult but pricing the additional inverters is cheap tylenol than having to add them later. My current max amp draw has been 147Amp continuous if all the what ifs happen. I figure if I am welding, which will be my largest draw, I will be up in the 180Amp range and being that I need a new water heater, I am upgrading to more than a 5minute shower on the coldest days when our water temps get really low. You can always have extra Amps to spare but if you undersize and everything goes out you have to wait till the inverter allows it to be powered back on. I have tried hybrids and heat pump water heaters and all lacked the rebound time. I had a instant water heater and that thing draws more amps than the commercial AO water heaters do.

 

[edrivas411]

It's like horse power , but with more ROAR ?

LOL
Here is the link for lion energy. https://lionenergy.com/pages/sanctuary

 

[edrivas411]

I am confused.

How can one brand of inverter change the number of them required to power your loads?
Can you post up your calculations?
You may be missing or misunderstanding something,

Some inverters are 10,000kva while others are 12,000 kva and others are ???, you chain them together to get the higher amperage you would like.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Curious as to why you are getting off propane?

Propane OD water heater would be a lot cheaper than the huge system you will need for electric water heating I think.

Price fluctuations and availability.
Better not to be tied to any outside needs if possible.

 

[edrivas411]

Price fluctuations and availability.
Better not to be tied to any outside needs if possible.

Propane annually is very expensive and the service in my area is horrible. If we had better service I would stay with propane but I must rely on a company that has forgot us to the point of running out and then getting charged to vacuum the tank. I have changed companies a few times to get the same service. That is why I have this discussion going to see who has used what and the pros and cons of what they have experienced. I currently am using a small Magnasine inverter and the charging and monitoring is all Victron. I like the Victron but I like to have more information on what is out there than have to stick with only the familiar to me. I plan on using the SOK server batteries but I am watching the Ruixu Battery discussion also.

 

[Supervstech]

Some inverters are 10,000kva while others are 12,000 kva and others are ???, you chain them together to get the higher amperage you would like.

But he said 10,000W inverter.
All same size. Just different brand.

 

[edrivas411]

But he said 10,000W inverter.
All same size. Just different brand.

Please read original post

 

[SamDeleted]

Victon, Magnasine, Schneider, or lion energy? I have been looking at Victron with SOC batteries but calculations say I would need 5 10,000 inverters while lion energy would need 3.

Schneider are very much a top brand , victron too .

Looking at your link, I'm not sure what inverters Lion are offering , I doubt they're manufacturing it themselves




I am a little confused as to why with one brand you would need 5x10,000va inverters, and with another brand you only need ,3x10,000va....