diy solar

diy solar

Nickel-plated copper bus bar

Zerpersande

New Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2022
Messages
80
I have 20mm x 5mm nickel-plated copper to make a bus bar. each bus will be composed of two(2) 21cm sections with five(5) bolts 30mm on center. The bottom holes will be tapped so the the bolts are securely attached. Four(4) bolts will be 8mm and the battery bolt will be 10mm. The solar controller, inverter and 12/24DC devices will each have a separate post.The fourth post will be a shared connection for either a remotely placed solar array on a second solar controller or a shore battery charger, and won’t be used at the same time. This is a 24V system.

Question: What type of bolts should I use on this bus bar?
 

Attachments

  • B22E1440-B074-4D53-BE83-F2B64CF50F83.jpeg
    B22E1440-B074-4D53-BE83-F2B64CF50F83.jpeg
    265.9 KB · Views: 23
I recommend using Stainless Steel Bolts & Nuts, and ensure you have a Good Clean contact with the physical busbar and the cable lugs (Tinned) with either a Split Ring or Serrated Lock Washers between the Cable Lug & Nut.
 
I recommend using Stainless Steel Bolts & Nuts, and ensure you have a Good Clean contact with the physical busbar and the cable lugs (Tinned) with either a Split Ring or Serrated Lock Washers between the Cable Lug & Nut.
This would make my life a lot easier and was my first inclination. But I read, on this forum and in this particular group, that stainless has problems with seizing and also undergoes some sort of deterioration of physical characteristics. The recommendation seemed to be Class 8.8 steel. Another source said galvanized bolts, which is what I think is commonly used here in Japan.

I take the above back. The post I read didn’t discourage stainless nor did it make the comment I stated above. But I DID read it somewhere.
 
Last edited:
This would make my life a lot easier and was my first inclination. But I read, on this forum and in this particular group, that stainless has problems with seizing and also undergoes some sort of deterioration of physical characteristics. The recommendation seemed to be Class 8.8 steel. Another source said galvanized bolts, which is what I think is commonly used here in Japan.

I take the above back. The post I read didn’t discourage stainless nor did it make the comment I stated above. But I DID read it somewhere.
Ahh, stainless not recommended because of its limited degree of elasticity. Seems a lit of people use them. And for my purposes, large loads just aren’t expected.
 
I would use the set of four shown and not worry. The lug should be clamped direct on the bar. The bolt does not really conduct the electricity as much as it just provides the clamping force for the lug to conduct direct to the bar.
 
Stainless steel should not be an issue. Both Victron Energy and Blue Sea use stainless steel bolts with their tin plated copper busbars.
Yep, I just checked Blue Sea specs and if it’s good enough for them….
I’m going to check on the availability of Class 8.8 bolts but what I have found thus far is that it’s going to be expensive. Unless it is commonly used here in Japan commodities often have huge markups.

Not joking…a seller on Amazon has two(2) bolts priced at about $1000. I don’t know the purpose of such an ad.
 
I would use the set of four shown and not worry. The lug should be clamped direct on the bar. The bolt does not really conduct the electricity as much as it just provides the clamping force for the lug to conduct direct to the bar.
I don’t have any more of these. I saved these from an old roof rack installation and was using them to layout the positioning.
 
My opinion is it would be sort of a waste of effort. Without a pretty serious threadlocker or aggressive lockwasher digging into the bus bar, its likely the bolts will still try to ‘back out’ as you tighten the nuts, especially if youre trying to use some kind of locking nut (no need). So i wouldn’t bother.

As far as 8.8 metric hardware being rare in Japan, that’s ironic as its all over Japanese cars! How many of which are still built in Japan, i don’t know. ?

I HAVE found stainless to be less forgiving both in terms of torque and thread lubrication than other steel. As in, if you overtorque it and the threads are dry, it is NOT coming back off without breaking or cutting it. My solution so far is to just lubricate the threads with antiseize, and i might be overtorquing them less too..
 
Use a bit more torque setting the bolt from the back than will be used on the top and all will be fine. If by some miracle the bolts should loosen add some blue lock fluid and go again.

I find threading copper has a different feel than steel and aluminum. In the end it seems to cut fine.
 
As far as 8.8 metric hardware being rare in Japan, that’s ironic as its all over Japanese cars! How many of which are still built in Japan, i don’t know.
My search has been limited to…
- Amazon Japan
- A place much like Home Depot but much more limited
- An online site that has LOTS of hardware

I found some black M10 8.8. Had to buy 10 or 15, I only need 2. No M8 though.
 
Anybody seen this kind of locknut?
I bought some serrated bc I found out Blue Sea uses serrated on their bus bars now.
 

Attachments

  • 8941D2C6-1901-4556-B6F7-7A80536EF61C.jpeg
    8941D2C6-1901-4556-B6F7-7A80536EF61C.jpeg
    73.8 KB · Views: 12
  • 2E614117-6D56-49B9-9C86-EBF608745AF5.jpeg
    2E614117-6D56-49B9-9C86-EBF608745AF5.jpeg
    79.6 KB · Views: 12
Yes, i think ive seen all of them at this point (ASE Master Auto Tech), and i like those a bit more than most others because they dont leave as much damage behind.

Just some background from what i know: what we call locknuts or locking nuts are technically called prevailing torque nuts.

They work various ways but in the case of nuts specifically there are a few common types. Some nuts are ‘made correctly’ and then intentionally distorted near the top so that the threads are no longer ‘round’ and you have to ‘stretch it back to round’ to spin it on. Those usually have machine pressing/punching marks on them near the top. Wouldn’t use that on stainless as they rub the threads together hard enough to leave damage on the male side. Id say high risk of galling on stainless.

The one there in your pic is pretty rare, i think because it’s harder to manufacture. That one basically has the last thread on top at the ‘wrong pitch’ and when you force it on it flexes those ‘thread wings’ to fit in between the threads on the male, so the friction is limited to the sides of the threads instead of the ‘ridge’ or ‘crest’ of the threads, leaves less damage. I like those ok.

Nylock or nylon ring lock nuts have an unthreaded plastic ring on top of threads that you must stretch/force over the male threads. Those leave basically no damage but also don’t grip as hard as some others and plastic will get soft and lose grip if it gets hot.

Serrated nuts are ‘flange nuts’ which basically means has a washer built into the bottom to make the base wider. The serrations on the bottom are angled to act sort of like a ratcheting mechanism, they can slide easier clockwise and try to dig in on counterclockwise rotation. I think those can be pretty great IF the fastener and the surface you’re clamping onto can have the right combination of pushing the nut into the surface hard enough to actually gouge into the metal. If you use it with a soft bolt on top of a hard surface it’s not going to be great. Split ring lock washers function similarly but only bite in one spot and in general i think they suck compared to serrated nuts.

So if you’re picking prevailing torque fasteners you have to decide if you’re ok with them leaving any damage, and if so would you rather it be on the male threads or the clamped surface. None of them are technically recommended to be reusable athough i think serrated nuts pretty much are as the sacrificial surface is supposed to be the clamped part, not the nut. In the end i have nylock nuts on my stainless terminal studs because there’s no vibration and very little heat in my application and the male threads are somewhat soft bolts i welded onto something and i dont want to wear on the bolts much, and the clamped surfaces are small 5/16” ring terminals which a split washer or serrated nut would tear up.

I love this video.
 
Last edited:
Yes, i think ive seen all of them at this point (ASE Master Auto Tech), and i like those a bit more than most others because they dont leave as much damage behind.

Just some background from what i know: what we call locknuts or locking nuts are technically called prevailing torque nuts.

They work various ways but in the case of nuts specifically there are a few common types. Some nuts are ‘made correctly’ and then intentionally distorted near the top so that the threads are no longer ‘round’ and you have to ‘stretch it back to round’ to spin it on. Those usually have machine pressing/punching marks on them near the top. Wouldn’t use that on stainless as they rub the threads together hard enough to leave damage on the male side. Id say high risk of galling on stainless.

The one there in your pic is pretty rare, i think because it’s harder to manufacture. That one basically has the last thread on top at the ‘wrong pitch’ and when you force it on it flexes those ‘thread wings’ to fit in between the threads on the male, so the friction is limited to the sides of the threads instead of the ‘ridge’ or ‘crest’ of the threads, leaves less damage. I like those ok.

Nylock or nylon ring lock nuts have an unthreaded plastic ring on top of threads that you must stretch/force over the male threads. Those leave basically no damage but also don’t grip as hard as some others and plastic will get soft and lose grip if it gets hot.

Serrated nuts are ‘flange nuts’ which basically means has a washer built into the bottom to make the base wider. The serrations on the bottom are angled to act sort of like a ratcheting mechanism, they can slide easier clockwise and try to dig in on counterclockwise rotation. I think those can be pretty great IF the fastener and the surface you’re clamping onto can have the right combination of pushing the nut into the surface hard enough to actually gouge into the metal. If you use it with a soft bolt on top of a hard surface it’s not going to be great. Split ring lock washers function similarly but only bite in one spot and in general i think they suck compared to serrated nuts.

So if you’re picking prevailing torque fasteners you have to decide if you’re ok with them leaving any damage, and if so would you rather it be on the male threads or the clamped surface. None of them are technically recommended to be reusable athough i think serrated nuts pretty much are as the sacrificial surface is supposed to be the clamped part, not the nut. In the end i have nylock nuts on my stainless terminal studs because there’s no vibration and very little heat in my application and the male threads are somewhat soft bolts i welded onto something and i dont want to wear on the bolts much, and the clamped surfaces are small 5/16” ring terminals which a split washer or serrated nut would tear up.

I love this video.
Nice explanation, thanks for taking the time to write all of that. I knew the ‘prevailing torque nut’ designation. Never understood the ‘prevailing’ part though.

These were expensive, about $3.00 each. They are only going on the battery leads to the bus bars so I don’t anticipate their removal for any reason for a long period of time.

As for the serrated nuts, those will be attaching a single lug each to a post for 3 of the terminals. The fourth terminal may have two lugs, a secondary SCC and a battery charger, but they wouldn’t be used simultaneously.

Sound like a plan?
 
I persoanlly don’t have much problem stacking a couple of cable lugs on a stud unless you’re running them close to their actual current capacity, in which case flowing its own current PLUS the current from the lug above it might be getting it hot enough to melt your cable insulation. If not used near-max and simultaneously i personally see no issue with stacking a couple lugs.

I believe prevailing means it resists movement until you hit a certain minimum torque which ‘prevails’ over the fastener’s ‘grip’. So the prevailing torque would be the ‘minimum torque to start turning’. ‘Stiction’ is a related term. But yeah, no doubt prevailing torque and stiction are terms that ‘feel weird’ and if you don’t know better they kinda sound just made up. ?
 
It's actually recommended to stack lugs onto single stud.. and many are rated for at least 3 lugs on single stud. Preferably you stack the highest load and charge lugs on same stud so that you have least resistance (it doesn't have to travel through the busbar at all).
 
I persoanlly don’t have much problem stacking a couple of cable lugs on a stud unless you’re running them close to their actual current capacity,
My highest load is my SCC. I guess if I use a power tool or something similar thing inverter might get a workout?? I’m putting them on separate lugs more for ease of seeing what goes where.
 
Last edited:
It's actually recommended to stack lugs onto single stud.. and many are rated for at least 3 lugs on single stud. Preferably you stack the highest load and charge lugs on same stud so that you have least resistance (it doesn't have to travel through the busbar at all).
Ahh, news to me! I always stack them however i want as long as it seems safe but i never even stopped to think what actual ‘best practice’ might be.
 
Preferably you stack the highest load and charge lugs on same stud so that you have least resistance (it doesn't have to travel through the busbar at all).
The difference in the voltage drop between one stud and the next is going to be 0.0005V or so. I can’t see how thiscwill makeany difference for me.
 
The difference in the voltage drop between one stud and the next is going to be 0.0005V or so. I can’t see how thiscwill makeany difference for me.
as long as all the connectors are very clean....
 

diy solar

diy solar
Back
Top