Novice

[pmessaris]

i all I am a total novice to this and am trying to setup my first system.
I have;
2 solar panels 150W each/ VOC 21.5 max power volt is 18V
2 solar panels 200W each/ VOC 19.2 max power volt is 16V and 12v/24v 60A Controller
and a wind turbine which is as follows;
Specifications: Leaf material: nylon fiber Generator case: Casting aluminum alloy Colour: white+blue Wind wheel diameter:1.25m Blade length:0.6m Weight:9kg Power:3000W Rated voltage: 12/24V Starting wind speed:2.0m/s Rated wind speed: 11.5m/s Safe wind speed: 55m/s Number of leaves: 5PCS Control system: Electromagnet/wind wheel yaw Wind direction adjustment: automatic adjustment of the wind Wind power and type: three-phase AC permanent magnet synchronous generator Operating temperature: -40℃~+80℃
and a 12000W DC 24V to AC 230V Brand New Pure Sine Waveinverter

my requirements

ITEMS	Rated Watts	Hours to run daily	1 days energy requirement	days without energy input	Working Hours Whr
Fridge	200	24	4800	3	14400
A/C 12000	1300	5	6500	3	19500
A/C24000	2800	5	14000	3	42000
Lights14	500	7	3500	3	10500
Oven	2000	3	6000	3	18000
Water Heater	2500	1	2500	3	7500
TV Sony 37	100	8	800	3	2400
TV LG 24	30	5	150	3	450
Tablet 10"	30	4	120	3	360
Cell	10	2	20	3	60
TOTAL	9470		38390	3	115170

can someone please assist me with what size batteries and which inverter / controller to use to hook all this up. Possibly a diagram with fuses and whatever else is needed would be greatly appreciated

 

[Bvillebob]

Well, your numbers say you want about 40 kWh per day, so that's the minimum you need to generate. From there, you have to look at your location and figure out the number of hours of sunlight. you're likely to receive and the weather you're likely to experience.

If you're in Arizona, where. you can count on 5 hours per day most of the time, you'd need about 8,000 watts of panels, plus a margin, say 10,000 watts of panels. Here in Oregon, if you wanted that much power in the winter, you'd need an acre or so of panels...

For batteries, the numbers are right there in. your calculations, about 110 kWh. I just built about 45 kWh of lithium storage for about $9,000, so call it about $25,000 for the batteries if you DIY, maybe $50,000 if you buy off the shelf.

Hopefully you're getting the idea that you might want to look into reducing how much power you're using and reconsider what. you're trying to achieve. If it's just to save money, you need to be in a very high cost area and be willing to do the work, otherwise grid is going to be cheaper. Just wanting to replace the grid with solar, with no changes in lifestyle, gets very expensive. I run my house on about 8 kwH per day, including a couple of big freezers and other good sized drains. It's always a lot cheaper to reduce consumption than to generate it.

And unless you live in Kansas or similar, don't bother to include the wind generator, 99 percent of them don't make any real contribution, you need strong, constant winds for them to be useful.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Yay for you - starting with an energy audit. Thank you.

LOADS:
Seriously doubt your fridge uses 4.8kWh. A typical residential fridge uses about 2kWh/day.
500W of lights? Switch to LEDs. If that's 500W of LED, can you be seen from orbit?

3 days of backup:
Almost always notably cheaper to have 24 hours of battery backup + generator.

INVERTER:
A 12000W 24V inverter is absurd. Pulling 12000W from 24V is 500A - excessive. That inverter likely consumes 200W continuously in addition to any loads, so add another 4.8kWh/day.
More realistically, you should be looking at 8000W/48V and manage your power use to ensure that all items aren't running at once.
Don't forget to include the inverter's idle consumption.

SOLAR:
Those panels are poor matches for each other. Assuming you can use them, 700W will only meet about 10% of your daily consumption.

WIND:
In general, wind sucks.

Wind Resources

Rule 1: The power rating of a wind turbine has NOTHING to do with the amount of power you'll get. The amount of power you get depends on the size and efficiency of your wind turbine, and your wind. The power rating of a wind turbine is just its...

diysolarforum.com

That turbine is tiny. You're not going to get 3000W out of that turbine unless you're scared it's going to get blown away.

 

[pmessaris]

Thank you all for your responses
I think my chart may not be correct as like I mentioned above novice
I am located in Athens Greece and have over 6 hours of sunlight / day even in the winter and where my house is the wind has blown things off the roof so the wind turbine will be a backup for when there is no sun.

any basic help with design and equipment will be greatly appreciated

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thank you all for your responses
I think my chart may not be correct as like I mentioned above novice
I am located in Athens Greece and have over 6 hours of sunlight / day even in the winter and where my house is the wind has blown things off the roof so the wind turbine will be a backup for when there is no sun.

any basic help with design and equipment will be greatly appreciated

The amount of hours the sun shines is far less important than the energy that sun delivers during those sunny hours. As such you have far less than "6 hours" in the winter. Here is an annual output for your 700W solar system in Athens:



As you can see, while you get 6-7 hours in the summer months, that's cut in half in winter. In July, you harvest 112kWh/month or 3.6kWh/day - about 10% of what you need. In December, that's only 50kWh/month or 1.6kWh - about 5% of what you need.

Per https://www.researchgate.net/public...otential_in_Greece_Using_a_Small_Wind_Turbine

Athens is 3.6-4.6m/s average wind speed. At 3.6m/s, your r=0.6 tiny turbine will produce 13W of power. At 4.6m/s, your tiny turbine will produce 26W of power. That's a daily production of about 312Wh to 624Wh - about 1-2% of your daily usage. To be clear, your wind turbine is a toy.

So far, you're proposed system is producing 6-12% of your daily energy needs.

 

[pmessaris]

Thanks for the response, however I doubt that the information in this chart is updated as I lived in Athens in 2013 then left for NY and returned October 2019 and believe me the difference that I noticed in the weather 6 years later is VERY noticeable. in 2020 October and November we had hot weather, it was like summer continued till late November.

Anyway the point here is I want to put a few things on the solar / wind system which are as I have listed in the chart in the first post I made so I am trying to put something together to hold this small apartment only.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thanks for the response, however I doubt that the information in this chart is updated as I lived in Athens in 2013 then left for NY and returned October 2019 and believe me the difference that I noticed in the weather 6 years later is VERY noticeable. in 2020 October and November we had hot weather, it was like summer continued till late November.

Anyway the point here is I want to put a few things on the solar / wind system which are as I have listed in the chart in the first post I made so I am trying to put something together to hold this small apartment only.

Again, your proposed system will meet 6-12% of your daily energy needs. Even doubling the average wind speed only produces about 200W. This brings you up to about 25% of your daily energy needs. If you got a "real" wind turbine with a typical rotor diameter of 2m, you would nearly triple your output. Oh, and your wind turbine will need to be mounted at least 10m in the air without obstructions or turbulence inducing structures or objects.

In either case, I hope you have very tolerant neighbors. Wind turbines, especially the smaller ones, are loud and unpleasant.

Your "small apartment" uses more energy than the average U.S. household (30kWh/day). Assuming your wind toybine can produce an average of 200W (highly unlikely), you'll need over 4000W of solar to meet the remaining energy requirements as listed in the summer and over 9000W of solar to meet the same loads in winter (though I assume you won't have the same loads). This array will also need to be perfectly South facing and tilted for your latitude with NO shading from sunrise to sunset to make this work.

This is math. You have a large amount of loads listed. You will need a large system to accommodate those loads.

 

[Supervstech]

Easy math…you have 700W of solar, and a windmill that can produce 3000W under nonexistent wind conditions… more likely, another 200W occasionally.
So, let’s say 700W average 6 hrs daily… (more likely 4hrs factoring in clouds and such…) so, 4.2Kwh/day
And let’s splurge and say 300W 12Hr per day, another 3.6KWh…
You have let’s round up and say 8KWh production per day.

Your loads chart says you use 39KWh per day…

Don’t look at the sales data for the windmill… measure the diameter of the blades, and get a wind data chart for your area… windmills need to be placed in clear flow areas, usually 20Meters above all obstacles within 100Meters… hard to do in an apartment, but if done, the peak output is useless, steady output is what matters, and windmills under 5Meters cannot gather consistent wattage… mere toys…

With the panels you have, IF you can place them at an ideal angle for production… and you have separate charge controllers for each set of panels, due to their non matching outputs…
You have about 1/2 the wattage to even turn on a 12000W inverter…


Now… it is unlikely in the EXTREME that you have an inverter that takes 24V and can output 12000W properly…

Post the specs or an model tag of your inverter… odds are good it is a 12000peak inverter… able to safely output less than 6000W… or quite possibly far less…

Let’s see what you actually have, let’s see what you actually use, and we can help design and build a setup that will actually help you use solar!

 

[pmessaris]

my inverter is as follows;

Specifications: Brand New Inverter DC to AC Output Waveform : Brand New Pure Sine Wave and modified sine wave Peak Output Power : 12000 Watts Peak Rated power :2500W Frequency : 50HZ±2HZ No load current draw : <2Amps nversion Efficiency : >90% input DC Voltage : 12V DC Voltage Range : 9V-15.5V output AC Voltage : 230V AC Voltage Range : 100V-240V Low Voltage Alarm : 10V DC±0.5V Low Voltage Shut Down : 9V DC±0.5V Over Load : Shut Off Output Over Voltage Shut Down : 15.5V Over Thermal : Shut Off Output Automatically Fuses : Short Circuit Start : Soft Start Production Condition : Brand New 2 Year Warranty : (1 Year Manufacturer + 1 Year VMInnovations) Machine Size(mm) : 360MM * 160MM * 100MM Net Weight(kgs) : 3.5kg USB Output : Yse No load current: <0.9A Efficiency:90% Appearance - Color : Red/blue -red： modified sine wave inverter -blueure sine wave inverter - Material: Aluminum Alloy - Socket Style: EU plug - Built-in cooling fan with low noise. - USB output Charging interface available. - Positive and negative pole terminal - Inverter Manual Switch Safe Range Of Input Voltage: 12V : 9.8~15V Output voltage: AC 220V/50Hz ± 2Hz - 8 Safety Protection Function: ①Reverse polarity protection ②Low input voltage?protection ③High input voltage protection ④Over-current protection ⑤Short circuit protection ⑥Over temperature protection ⑦Overload protection ⑧Internal fuses

thank you Supervstech

 

[Supervstech]

Wow
...
That's a lot of words

All bad though.
Hard to know what you actually have...

It sounds like an extremely low budget 2500W inverter...
I wouldn't use it for my home.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

@pmessaris

Bye.