Off grid people ill-prepared

[Browse]

If I was off grid, I would have to change my middle name to "Redundancy". Other than solar panels, I'd likely have two of everything (unique) that could break for no reason other than to sleep well at night.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I should be clear, I’m by no means against being off grid at all. Hell, I envy the idea of land in the forest and being fully self reliant etc.

But, you must not have met my wife. She has no idea whether an LED light bulb or a hair dryer use more power.

Grid connectivity is a must. It’ll save marriages.

ROFLMAO... Oh let me tell you, I've been there.

My wife can actually run Ohms law calculations now.. Its taken 22 years to get here, but we have arrived!

Now if I can just get her to stop leaving hair in the bathroom sink... maybe another 22 years?

 

[timselectric]

Don't have to spend the money for top fancy name stuff. But wouldn't recommend the cheapest stuff either. Affordable, efficient, and reliable, is all that I need.
But no matter what level of money you have.
Lots of redundancy and multiple backups are what keeps you going. When others would be left in the dark.
When Murphy comes looking for you. You have to be ready to counter attack.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

One of my companies is an IT company and we have a 80/20 rule where 20% of people cause 80% of the problems. Some people are just cursed and no matter what we do we just know they'll continue to have issues.

Also to the same point just because something's top tier doesn't mean it'll last longer. Some things have better components and some things have more components. You can have the best build quality and best QC and shit happens, things fail. Also the saying "they don't make things like they used to" is based on fact.

Owned an IT company for 40 years this year (semi-retired now) and I agree, except for me it seems like it was about 5% of the people cause 95% of the problems. My solution was to build in what I call the bullshit fee. Figure out what I'm going to charge on a contract then add at least 10% for bullshit. Rate variable depending on the client.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

My system is off grid but I still have the grid for backup and for a few circuits I haven't moved over yet. But that doesn't mean I don't want redundancy. And a backup for the backup, if possible. Grid is first fallback if the solar goes down. Generator is the backup to that.

I wholeheartedly agree on the documentation. I keep a binder on top of one of the inverters in plain sight. In the binder I have the manual for the inverter, detailed instructions for shutdown, startup, and switching the transfer switch to grid and/or to battery, my wiring diagram, and a page with all the breakers listed. So just in case I'm not around, anyone with even a little snap can take that book and get the power back on in most cases.

I just thought of one more thing - I keep a decent fire extinguisher right there by the inverters and batteries. That sounds pretty basic but I know a lot of people who don't even have a fire extinguisher anywhere in their house.

 

[Steve_S]

Off grid sounds nice till you’re actually off grid lol.

I must say, I greatly appreciate my ability to throw a transfer switch and be “like everyone else”

Sorry but I disagree. I am 100% off grid and would never get back onto the grid. I like having the cash in my hand rather than some fat bloke in an office a thousand miles away. I lack absolutely nothing and am comfortable 12 months a year, living in a region that goes from -22F in Winter to 100F in summer.

 

[Steve_S]

Every appliance we have is energy efficient as we could find. But to your statement, there’s nothing like my original 1954 GE refrigerator still running after 69 years. It’s in the garage as a water fridge. I’m amazed how things used to last compared to today’s products designed to die within a few years.

Geez, have you ever put that fridge on a Kill-A-Watt meter ?
I'm curious at how much energy it uses. I think some folks may be surprised actually.

 

[Shawn Hayes]

Geez, have you ever put that fridge on a Kill-A-Watt meter ?
I'm curious at how much energy it uses. I think some folks may be surprised actually.

No I have not. I’ll check into that and see. I do know it’s not terrible but don’t have numbers.

 

[JJJJ]

I have a print out of my documentation just in case. I am not off grid and have the highest respect for those who have mastered this.

There is a saying in some circles, two is one and one is none.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Agree w/ Steve_S ... we are totally off-grid (and never going back), and to everyone's nice lists of what to do & how to do it, I'd add:

- build it yourself ... from ground up (no installers). at that point, it's a piece of cake to swap in/out anything, do work-arounds, etc. Legion of reasons why others won't fix it for you.
- redundant redundancy systems ... it's no fun swapping out little things to big things when stuff fails, but just a few backup options yield many possible solutions.

The multiple separate systems idea above *is* the way we currently lean ... one system drives the main house (big magnum inverter, but just passing it's 5-year warranty period), and a little system (driving internet, computer gear), and finally, a portable system(s) such as a hand-truck 2kw mpp & battery bank (to power other critical loads, while a magnum-like LF inverter is ordered, received, installed).

And ... things just change over time ... diy means you'll roll with the changes.

 

[Watts Happening]

Sorry but I disagree. I am 100% off grid and would never get back onto the grid. I like having the cash in my hand rather than some fat bloke in an office a thousand miles away. I lack absolutely nothing and am comfortable 12 months a year, living in a region that goes from -22F in Winter to 100F in summer.

I suppose I’m confused about the “cash in hand rather than some fat bloke in an office a thousand miles away” part?

 

[BoloMKXXVIII]

I would emphasize the backup hardware. While it is nice to have tier 1 hardware (and i have a bit), even tier 1 kit fails. Sometimes by no fault of its own. If you spend everything one your primary gear and have nothing left over for "plan B", God help you when the unexpected happens. I went with a smaller Victron SCC and another, cheaper one to make up the difference in my system. If either fails I still have some charge capability.

 

[Consumerbot3418]

Off grid sounds nice till you’re actually off grid lol.

I must say, I greatly appreciate my ability to throw a transfer switch and be “like everyone else”

Same here!

But our utility has doubled their baseline "availability fee" in just 2 years. At the same time, they dropped rates on the actual power. It sure looks as if they're punishing solar users, and getting off-grid completely might be the only way to avoid constant hikes on the baseline rate. Before canceling service, I'll have to revisit this post and make sure all my ducks are in a row!

 

[Watts Happening]

Same here!

But our utility has doubled their baseline "availability fee" in just 2 years. At the same time, they dropped rates on the actual power. It sure looks as if they're punishing solar users, and getting off-grid completely might be the only way to avoid constant hikes on the baseline rate. Before canceling service, I'll have to revisit this post and make sure all my ducks are in a row!

I’ll have to check our baseline cost, but being in a city I don’t believe we have any realistic way to go completely off grid, and truth be told I don’t currently want to.

I 100% agree that tier 1 equipment makes the most sense, I’ve always been a Victron guy. That said, realistically speaking where I’m at, tier 1 is the power company. I don’t think I’ve seen so much as a 5 minute outage that I can remember in probably 10 years.

So for me, tier 1 is to have them available, natural gas sure is nice too. Where I’m able to really see a savings is with our time of use agreement by having an electric car. We have a much better rate than most people, but June-September we pay something like 45 cents per kWh from 3-9pm. Having solar/battery backup and an inverter than can handle our 3 mini splits essentially eliminates that entirely.

Then all winter long we use their cheap power for the same mini splits and generally it works out nice.

I don’t think there is a wrong answer here, I’m more of a hybrid thinker. Enjoy the positive sides of society but always be ready for when things don’t go as planned.

 

[schmism]

I think you covered it very well.

Using tier 1 equipment is the biggest thing by a wide margin.

I disagree. Having spairs/backups is the biggest thing.

if I'm using overseas equipment the cost is such that I could buy 2 or 3 or more of the device for the same price. I'd rather spend 2/3 the cost and have an extra 1 or even 2 sitting on the shelf if I need it.

 

[Steve_S]

I suppose I’m confused about the “cash in hand rather than some fat bloke in an office a thousand miles away” part?

Not having to pay Big Power Co squat and keeping my money for my use.
The forest fires have also played havoc with the power grid as well, not to mention other occurrences that happen on an increasingly frequent basis.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I disagree. Having spairs/backups is the biggest thing.

if I'm using overseas equipment the cost is such that I could buy 2 or 3 or more of the device for the same price. I'd rather spend 2/3 the cost and have an extra 1 or even 2 sitting on the shelf if I need it.

It is possible that I don't put a lot of weight on the backup thing because of my own personal setup. Using the Sunny Island inverter, two of them are required to form a 120/240 split phase system, so if one of them goes down, we can always run on the 2nd inverter.. we just won't have 240.. which isn't the end of the world for us.

That said, we do have an Outback Radian 8048 in protected storage so I do agree backups are important.

 

[JJJJ]

not to mention other occurrences that happen on an increasingly frequent basis.

Two of my sons were involved in a very educational and well run scout troop. They learned the basics of cooking, backpacking, camping in a small tent, water filtration, bear precautions and other basic skills.

They both know how to start a fire whether it is in the wild or in a stove.

Love solar because it adds to a basic skill set.

 

[Watts Happening]

Not having to pay Big Power Co squat and keeping my money for my use.
The forest fires have also played havoc with the power grid as well, not to mention other occurrences that happen on an increasingly frequent basis.

Understandable. We’re pretty fortunate, near 100% grid reliability and power available at about 9 cents per kWh.

Certainly doesn’t mean I want to rely on them. But, I can’t just go “unplug my house”.

Something to be said for being fully self reliant, no question about that.

 

[SYKSolar]

I think you covered it very well.

Using tier 1 equipment is the biggest thing by a wide margin.

What do you mean by Tier 1 , Tier 2 etc? You mean top of the line equipment as Tier1?

 

[MurphyGuy]

What do you mean by Tier 1 , Tier 2 etc? You mean top of the line equipment as Tier1?

Top of the line "category" is Tier 1.

Names like SMA, Outback, Schneider, and a few others.

Tier 2 stuff is generally the higher end Chinese products, which are few. And most of these are not Chinese brands, they are just made in China.

Tier 3 is the Chinese brand garbage they sell for really cheap on Amazon or Ebay mostly.

Sometimes there is overlap. For example, the Aim's branded inverter is generally a Tier 3 piece of junk, but if you purchase the right model number for their higher end stuff, it could be considered Tier 2 quality.

 

[Mattb4]

What do you mean by Tier 1 , Tier 2 etc? You mean top of the line equipment as Tier1?

I tend to think of Tier 1 equipment is that from a highly respected outfit that is fully complaint with all necessary codes. Everything else is Tier None.

Tier 1 does not guarantee it will work and Tier None does not guarantee it won't.

 

[SYKSolar]

I tend to think of Tier 1 equipment is that from a highly respected outfit that is fully complaint with all necessary codes. Everything else is Tier None.

Tier 1 does not guarantee it will work and Tier None does not guarantee it won't.

Good answer! I would go for Tier 1, save some troubles. Thanks

 

[rodrick]

Off grid is not just the equipment it’s a mindset and rural lifestyle of self reliance the original diy

we grow our own food, raise our livestock, build our homes, barns and other structures

we are the plumber, electrician, carpenter, mason, and whatever else is needed

I feel blessed growing up this way because whenever something happens its no big deal just add it to my to do list

it’s very hard work but the feeling of being almost totally self reliant is priceless

 

[pollenface]

But, you must not have met my wife. She has no idea whether an LED light bulb or a hair dryer use more power.

Sounds like my friend being baffled why the 700w generator would konk out when they plugged in the 2200w kettle.