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Off grid people ill-prepared

ksmithaz1 said:
As a long time IT guy, you learn things about redundancies and MTBF num(lies)bers, and MTTR numbers. A lot of it is just plain math and statistics. The more stuff you have the more likely you are to have a failure. This is something that is sometimes difficult for smart people to grok. I've always looked for minimal redudancy and as low a MTTR as I can get. The other problem used to occur a lot with hard disks, and that is the cold spare issue. The problem is once components start failing that you've had in service for a long time, they tend to cascade. And then the final issue, which is the technology keeps improving, so if you buy too much, you load up on soon to be obsolete tech. If you are going to have spares, in most cases you may as well run them, and size your systems with overhead to handle failures, replacing and upgrading components as they fail.

From a pure disaster scenario, design your systems with easily replaceable components whenever possible. And in the case of DIY solar, make sure you have the basic tools you need to scab in something quickly.

YMMV.
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40 years for me on the IT part, but I had a different approach. Live redundancy where possible where failover systems kept the end user functioning and usually not even knowing there was a failure - servers, internet connections, etc. Hot swap hard drives with rebuild on the fly RAID. Multiple spares of just about everything that was critical to keeping that MTTR low. Routers, switches, workstations, printers, and pretty much everything else. It's expensive and yeah, we threw away some hardware or sold it at a loss. Part of the reason for this was almost all my clients were healthcare, including hospitals and ERs. They don't want to hear "sorry, but the radiology PACS server is down" when they have a stroke patient in the ER and need a stat CT. So the cost of the redundancy was actually just a one time insurance premium that proved itself well worth the cost when the inevitable failure came along. I know for a fact that it saved a few lives over the years. Then along came COVID and they were especially happy to have spares on site, because you damn sure couldn't get anything for a while.

I'm not saying I disagree with managing costs and efficiency, because I absolutely do agree. But it depends on the situation. My problem is that after years of doing that and now that I'm retired it's hard to shake it. I'm so accustomed to having a spare everything that I just kind of plan for it out of habit.
 
EastTexCowboy said:
40 years for me on the IT part, but I had a different approach. Live redundancy where possible where failover systems kept the end user functioning and usually not even knowing there was a failure - servers, internet connections, etc. Hot swap hard drives with rebuild on the fly RAID. Multiple spares of just about everything that was critical to keeping that MTTR low. Routers, switches, workstations, printers, and pretty much everything else. It's expensive and yeah, we threw away some hardware or sold it at a loss. Part of the reason for this was almost all my clients were healthcare, including hospitals and ERs. They don't want to hear "sorry, but the radiology PACS server is down" when they have a stroke patient in the ER and need a stat CT. So the cost of the redundancy was actually just a one time insurance premium that proved itself well worth the cost when the inevitable failure came along. I know for a fact that it saved a few lives over the years. Then along came COVID and they were especially happy to have spares on site, because you damn sure couldn't get anything for a while.

I'm not saying I disagree with managing costs and efficiency, because I absolutely do agree. But it depends on the situation. My problem is that after years of doing that and now that I'm retired it's hard to shake it. I'm so accustomed to having a spare everything that I just kind of plan for it out of habit.
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Great post. I guess it depends. Saving a life is one thing. Not being able to microwave a pizza is another, lol. Some people have medical devices, Cpaps, etc that their health depends upon. But much of our reliance on electricity is more habit than necessity, except perhaps food storage like freezers and fridges.
 
I've done very well for a high school diploma. Worked my ass off for a lot of years to get here. Made more than my share of bonehead mistakes too, but I learned something from every one. Of course some mistakes were too much fun to not repeat...just ask my second wife.
 
EastTexCowboy said:
Part of the reason for this was almost all my clients were healthcare, including hospitals and ERs. They don't want to hear "sorry, but the radiology PACS server is down" when they have a stroke patient in the ER and need a stat CT. So the cost of the redundancy was actually just a one time insurance premium that proved itself well worth the cost when the inevitable failure came along. I know for a fact that it saved a few lives over the years. Then along came COVID and they were especially happy to have spares on site, because you damn sure couldn't get anything for a while.
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Healthcare is a totally different animal when it comes to redudancy and spares. People are generally clueless what Five 9's means in terms of uptime of any system. If I'm doing an open heart surgery on a patient, "The power went out" is simply not an option. The heart/lung machine is on the fritz, is not a tolerable situation. I get it!

If I'm off grid and I blow a fuse or burn up a breaker, it's probably a good idea to have a few spares, and a means to figure out why, when you replace it and it just pops again. I've found that all the redundancy in the world is often irrelevant when the real problem is outside the redundant system... Imagine that, someone drove nail thru that pipe and it's been dripping in that junction box for 50 years, and finally now after these heavy rains you just keep blowing all these breakers, they won't stay on. Weird stuff always seems to happen. MTTR on that one was rather long. Box was catching the water, so no evidence of a problem in the ceiling. But finally gets to a point that every time it rains the east breakers all trip, Get to it the next day, and it just turns on no problem, Dries out enough to stop the short. Over 50 years the cruft build up in the box reduced the needed volume of water to raise the level to hit the wires.
 
Kiwi2000 said:
Agreed. You can build redundancy into a system. Multiple strings running into multiple SCCs. And them feeding into a battery bank with multiple batteries. Then a handful of smaller inverters running off that bank rather than one large inverter.

If something fails then only a percentage of my system is down while I acquire a new unit, rather than the whole system being down.
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This is what I have. Also, multiple systems is what I'm building. I have two right now.

I also have tons of spares covered in EMP wrap. I even have lots of panels locked away metal storage containers
 
toms said:
Where i live everyone is off-grid. Over many years I’ve seen a good representation of what components regularly fail.

I’ve found the most cost effective long term power solution is:
Two complete independent systems.
One powers all essential loads (refrigeration / lighting / water pressure etc)
One powers other loads (hot water / aircon / workshop / irrigation etc)
The non essential system is able to charge the essential system, or via transfer switch power everything.

The essential system has a diesel generator backup.

I don’t bother with “cheap” gear, I simply cannot afford it.

It can be very stressful for some people when their power fails - the worst is when people have paid a small fortune for a “professional” install, and are left without power for weeks waiting for repairs.

I’ve seen every tier of equipment fail, if power is important to you and you are off-grid, you need to be organised.
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I agree that multiple systems provide redundancy (see my sig) that allow for downtime if one of the systems fails. My primary and secondary systems are arranged much like yours. They're not super-powered but they support off-grid living 24/7/365 with some level of confidence. Lightning strikes can be annoying and spare PCBs can save the day.
 
rodrick said:
Off grid is not just the equipment it’s a mindset and rural lifestyle of self reliance the original diy

we grow our own food, raise our livestock, build our homes, barns and other structures

we are the plumber, electrician, carpenter, mason, and whatever else is needed

I feel blessed growing up this way because whenever something happens its no big deal just add it to my to do list

it’s very hard work but the feeling of being almost totally self reliant is priceless
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You hit the nail right on the head. we do it all. not just solar!!!
 
Cool story: bought an extra Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse kit 15 yrs ago for use in my home cinema, figured the first one would last 4-5 yrs...I have still not unpacked it as the first kit are still rocking...
So buying spares...might be useless unless you like sleeping better at night. ^^
 
Living a fair distance from any place that I can drive to to find parts I tend to maintain more spares of things. It does not make financial sense to run to town for one item. This does leave my place looking like a warehouse or a grocery/hardware store at times. The advent of internet merchants have helped with finding stuff that simply is unavailable in local stores but the long time for shipping (in most cases) also encourages having spares.

One advantage of keeping spares beyond just being ready is that it can be a cost saving. By frequently keeping track of what is and what is not available at a good price and buying it can save big over buying in a rush. Amazon's Buy Again I find real handy to monitor price of things I bought before to see if the price is down enough to warrant buying again for commonly used (consumables) items.

I agree that spares that may never be used are lost money. So it is a trade off trying to gauge if a spare is justified. It is like having a spare tire for my truck. In 23 years of ownership I have only had to use it once. That one time it really was a necessity to have. Though I have had to replace it due to age 3 times now. Pretty much a loss economically speaking.
 
Sometimes multiple backup plans is more robust and cheaper than Noah's ark. Murphy's law in not being able to predict what will fail. Having different stuff means more chance that something will work.
 
LydMekk said:
Cool story: bought an extra Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse kit 15 yrs ago for use in my home cinema, figured the first one would last 4-5 yrs...I have still not unpacked it as the first kit are still rocking...
So buying spares...might be useless unless you like sleeping better at night. ^^
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I have plenty of spares for many things, especially tools. But that is mostly a function of me buying something that looks useful, forgetting I already have one (or two, three…).
 
Danke said:
I have plenty of spares for many things, especially tools. But that is mostly a function of me buying something that looks useful, forgetting I already have one (or two, three…).
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I hate it when I do that. :)
I also hate thinking I have something, looking all over for it, not finding it, buying a new item to only later spot the thing I needed as I rummage about.

There is also the fact that after I suffer through a clean up spell of tossing out seemingly unnecessary things I find out that I tossed something I did indeed want later on. Can't win for losing.
 
Mattb4 said:
I hate it when I do that. :)
I also hate thinking I have something, looking all over for it, not finding it, buying a new item to only later spot the thing I needed as I rummage about.

There is also the fact that after I suffer through a clean up spell of tossing out seemingly unnecessary things I find out that I tossed something I did indeed want later on. Can't win for losing.
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I do that too. I few years ago I had a garage sale and sold things for next to nothing. A couple of things now I wish I had kept. One was a wire twister and another a bench vise…
 
I keep a spare Trace SW4048 inverter for back up in the event the working SW 4024 goes down. Simple swap aside from changing charge settings and rewiring my battery for 48 volts. As we know Trace/Xantrex equipment from that era is known to last a long time so I think the SW 4048 may not be needed in my lifetime. Knowing it is sitting there is comforting all the same.

Oh, and when I found a Midnite Solar Classic 200 for 175 dollars off in a clearance sale I had to buy it. Again, may never need it in my lifetime. We'll see.
 
Mattb4 said:
Living a fair distance from any place that I can drive to to find parts I tend to maintain more spares of things. It does not make financial sense to run to town for one item. This does leave my place looking like a warehouse or a grocery/hardware store at times. The advent of internet merchants have helped with finding stuff that simply is unavailable in local stores but the long time for shipping (in most cases) also encourages having spares.

One advantage of keeping spares beyond just being ready is that it can be a cost saving. By frequently keeping track of what is and what is not available at a good price and buying it can save big over buying in a rush. Amazon's Buy Again I find real handy to monitor price of things I bought before to see if the price is down enough to warrant buying again for commonly used (consumables) items.

I agree that spares that may never be used are lost money. So it is a trade off trying to gauge if a spare is justified. It is like having a spare tire for my truck. In 23 years of ownership I have only had to use it once. That one time it really was a necessity to have. Though I have had to replace it due to age 3 times now. Pretty much a loss economically speaking.
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I'm not that far from town. Maybe 15 minutes if the traffic on the main road isn't bad. But it still costs money and is simply an aggravation to have to so for something specific. That's why I have a decent size bolt bin with both US and metric bolts, nuts, washers, machine screws, deck screws,etc. I also have one of the same bins but full of PVC plumbing parts. Then I have a couple totes full of electrical that I'd really like to get organized into bins. I can't tell you how many trips to town it has saved me. Each of those trips is a few dollars in diesel plus wear and tear on the truck and aggravation. I suspect the bolt bin has paid for itself and maybe the plumbing supplies as well. Then there's the savings from buying in bulk where the bolt and plumbing costs are half the cost at Lowe's or Home Depot. There are several bolt and nut places online where you can get really good deals on quality hardware. I use www.supplyhouse.com for plumbing and occasionally for electrical, but they seem to be more competitive on plumbing. If I need a couple one inch gate valves I just order ten for not much more than two would have cost me at the store. Then the next time I don't have to buy any. The whole thing just makes so much sense to me. The challenge is making sure you can find it when you need it. I keep working on that. I did get smart and keep all my "solar" tools and supplies in one place. Maybe I'm learning after all these years. :ROFLMAO:

A few weeks agon I needed a couple of metal surface mount 2 gang switch boxes. Lowe's wanted something like $8 each and didn't have any. I found a box of 25 new in the box on Ebay for $40. I didn't really need 25 but now I have enough to last me for a really long time.

I agree on the cost savings too. We bought this place in 2020 then finally got moved here late 2021. I'm still finding stuff in bins and boxes. A few weeks ago I found 2 full rolls of 12-2 w/g romex and a roll of 14-2. I've had them for years. When I look at the current price it was like winning a small lottery.
 
I had the opportunity to acquire a rolling tool box on sale which holds most of my tools. I also have a carry tool box which holds all my lugs, shrink wrap and other assorted solar items.

For me tremendous peace of mind not looking in a number of places for basic items.
 
ksmithaz1 said:
Healthcare is a totally different animal when it comes to redudancy and spares. People are generally clueless what Five 9's means in terms of uptime of any system. If I'm doing an open heart surgery on a patient, "The power went out" is simply not an option. The heart/lung machine is on the fritz, is not a tolerable situation. I get it!
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Good thing SCVMC put in backup generators!

www.mercurynews.com

Backup generators failed at San Jose hospital during heat wave, emergency room still closed

The failure left parts of Santa Clara Valley Medical Center without power for around four hours
www.mercurynews.com www.mercurynews.com
 
I can appreciate picking up extra working parts. Picked up extra lugs along the way. Prices are not going down and it never hurts to have extras in case a repair or system change or update is needed.

I also buy shrink wrap in rolls. Same reason.
 
Hedges said:
Do they all take the same caliber, or do you have to watch what you load in which?

View attachment 155528
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That's actually a very valid point. As an NRA instructor for many years I taught a lot of classes. Most firearms classes, especially entry level, are more classroom time than range time. One of the core segments of my classes was identification of ammo calibers. I always had at least five or six weapons on hand for visual aids, sometimes more. This was to help train on the differences, such as single action vs double action, revolver vs semi-auto, and even something as basic as rifle vs shotgun. I always had dummy rounds and one of the quizzes I would do multiple times was caliber identification. Newbies especially are not going to be able to tell rounds apart by just looking. But even veterans can make a mistake, and as your photo shows, those mistakes can be costly. In my classes everyone had to know how to determine caliber. But in answer to your question, I have a lot of different calibers and I ALWAYS pay attention to which ammo goes in which.
 
You could find yourself holed up with some weapons, but out of ammunition that fits them. Ten is none?
I was thinking a variety of weapons accepting same cartridge would be useful. But doesn't meet all performance needs. Would want to minimize number of different caliber.

Having only choices that can't be loaded and fired with wrong ammo would prevent mistakes.
Our electrical plugs usually provide that feature, although I've made some cross-species adapters so I can send 3-phase through a split-phase extension cord.

Then there is the story of US planting a single 7x over-pressure cartridge in ammo dumps they found in Vietnam ...

And that the Soviets had a rifle that could shoot our ammo, though loose fit and less accurate. We couldn't shoot theirs.

Since California outlaws .50 BMG, another virtually identical caliber that is legal prevents chambering it and vice versa. I figured someone could make a gizmo to trim .50 BMG case if situation arose where use that cartridge was desired.

.510 DTC EUROP - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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