diy solar

diy solar

Off grid people ill-prepared

rhino

rhino

Solar Wizard
Joined
Jun 6, 2020
Messages
2,636
Location
Minnesota
I've seen at least two people posting in past week who are completely off-grid and losing all power because their non-tier 1 equipment has failed. Even with tier-1 equipment it is good to have a backup plan in place if you are 100% off grid and doubly so when you are using non-tier 1. You are your own utility company now and can't rely on somebody else to get your power back on.

Some suggestions:
1) Make sure you have plan if your main system dies
2) Have documentation on how to diagnose issues and everything well labeled if the technical person who knows the system may not be available. This is generally a good idea no matter what to do even for yourself. Will someone have to measure voltage? Will they know how to use a multimeter? Do they know where it is? What steps do they need to follow to diagnose why there is no power.
3) Have a backup inverter/charge controller/AIO. This may be a smaller version of what you have to at least run critical loads while the main system is down.
4) Verify you have spare fuses for critical components if applicable
5) Backup generator (either solar based or fossil fuel based).
6) Backup PV panels. Some people have extra PV panels stored away in case a storm takes out their currently installed/mounted panels. Minimum number to at least allow critical functionality of your system.

any others suggestions?
 
Sadly reality often strikes and when you have to choose Tier-1 vs Tier-2 or Tier-3, price really becomes a thing. Do I want to get that Victron 100a SCC or do I want to get that HQST, panels, batteries, and an inverter for about the same cost?

Just saying there's a line between doing everything "top tier" and "making it work now".

Now if someone had access to winning lottory numbers then it's a different discussion, but as you mention things like having spares (2x Tier-3 SCC's being cheaper than a single Tier-1 for example) and planning some sort of backup system (a smaller inverter generator that plays well with others rather than a large open frame that doesn't for example) are very cost effective ways of compensating.

My advice is to only cut corners where you safely can (batteries for example) and have a Plan-B in place.
 
MurphyGuy said:
I think you covered it very well.

Using tier 1 equipment is the biggest thing by a wide margin.
Click to expand...
Like all things it depends. If you can afford Tier 1 with spares it might be better than Tier None with spares. However if Tier None costs 1/5th the price of the same size Tier 1, and is workable, it might be affordable to you and in the end be a better choice.

I suspect most off grid folks are not rich and are more able to buy a spare Tier None.
 
rhino said:
Some suggestions:
1) Make sure you have plan if your main system dies
2) Have documentation on how to diagnose issues and everything well labeled if the technical person who knows the system may not be available. This is generally a good idea no matter what to do even for yourself. Will someone have to measure voltage? Will they know how to use a multimeter? Do they know where it is? What steps do they need to follow to diagnose why there is no power.
3) Have a backup inverter/charge controller/AIO. This may be a smaller version of what you have to at least run critical loads while the main system is down.
4) Verify you have spare fuses for critical components if applicable
5) Backup generator (either solar based or fossil fuel based).
6) Backup PV panels. Some people have extra PV panels stored away in case a storm takes out their currently installed/mounted panels. Minimum number to at least allow critical functionality of your system.
Click to expand...

Good list.

#1 mostly.
#2 it's all on me.
#3 I have a complete 2kW system and 60A MPPT ready to go for emergency power.
#4 nope. Failure on my part.
#5 three of them.
#6 8kW of them
 
Or a non-tier one product that you have spare parts for and did a practice run on swapping the circuit boards. Having two inverters hooked up and available with a transfer switch. Multiple charge controllers on multiple arrays. Also being able to do without power while still being able to warm the house and cook food. Flashlights in many places, just in case - with spare batteries.
 
I use Tier-1 SCC, Inverter/Charger etc no AIO's for me. Any component fails I can swap it in a jiffy, even if I have to drive to a local solar supplier but I do shave some spare equipment kept from upgrades so I'm covered. IF an AIO fails then you're without an SCC, Inverter & Charger. Also having a bank of batteries also covers the redundancy if 1 or 2 drop for some reason.
 
rhino said:
I've seen at least two people posting in past week who are completely off-grid and losing all power because their non-tier 1 equipment has failed. Even with tier-1 equipment it is good to have a backup plan in place if you are 100% off grid and doubly so when you are using non-tier 1. You are your own utility company now and can't rely on somebody else to get your power back on.

Some suggestions:
1) Make sure you have plan if your main system dies
2) Have documentation on how to diagnose issues and everything well labeled if the technical person who knows the system may not be available. This is generally a good idea no matter what to do even for yourself. Will someone have to measure voltage? Will they know how to use a multimeter? Do they know where it is? What steps do they need to follow to diagnose why there is no power.
3) Have a backup inverter/charge controller/AIO. This may be a smaller version of what you have to at least run critical loads while the main system is down.
4) Verify you have spare fuses for critical components if applicable
5) Backup generator (either solar based or fossil fuel based).
6) Backup PV panels. Some people have extra PV panels stored away in case a storm takes out their currently installed/mounted panels. Minimum number to at least allow critical functionality of your system.

any others suggestions?
Click to expand...
Never have I read a Truer statement.
 
I do a lot of Disaster recovery/Business Continuity when it comes to IT so this is 2nd nature

Just to repeat for those in the back label, label label.

Spare wire, crimper tools and lugs. In an emergency this can replace fuses and other problems in the system.

Checklists with A/B/C/D redundancies that are easy enough a kid can follow... Or in my case a bratty teen daughter.

Have a plan written out incase of any situation. writing it out not only helps you remember but helps you think of things you might have missed.

Visit every local store and have an idea of all the equipment they have on hand so you know what's available ICE.

Know your critical components and know how to get them and what else you can use/get in a pinch.
 
Mattb4 said:
Like all things it depends. If you can afford Tier 1 with spares it might be better than Tier None with spares. However if Tier None costs 1/5th the price of the same size Tier 1, and is workable, it might be affordable to you and in the end be a better choice.

I suspect most off grid folks are not rich and are more able to buy a spare Tier None.
Click to expand...

But isn't that sort of the problem? The cheap stuff has such a high failure rate that by the time you get done replacing it, you're at the same cost, or more, than the good stuff. And on top of that, you've suffered an outage.. or even worse, the cheap thing malfunctioned and took out other parts of your system as well..

Don't get me wrong, there's a place for cheap stuff. My camping inverter is an automotive supply store $40 special.. well.. that was what it cost 20 years ago.. stupid little thing still works too!

In the end, I think I get your point.. each of us has to analyze the importance and criticality of what we are purchasing and what we're using it for.

What I pick to prep for a long term national catastrophic event will be very different than what someone picks to survive a 3 day power outage after a storm comes through.. and different again than someone prepping for Hurricane Mega-Karen.

Good posts, good thread.
 
MurphyGuy said:
But isn't that sort of the problem? The cheap stuff has such a high failure rate ...
Click to expand...
It would be interesting to know just how likely any component to fail is. I suspect often that is more governed by the use it is put to than the price it cost. I own many inexpensive things that just last. Sometimes I end up buying a new replacement, not because something has failed, but because I want the new items features and shiny look.

Does make me think of a few people I knew that practically everything they bought (expensive or cheap) would fail and quickly. I think machines hate them for some reason.
 
Mattb4 said:
It would be interesting to know just how likely any component to fail is. I suspect often that is more governed by the use it is put to than the price it cost. I own many inexpensive things that just last. Sometimes I end up buying a new replacement, not because something has failed, but because I want the new items features and shiny look.

Does make me think of a few people I knew that practically everything they bought (expensive or cheap) would fail and quickly. I think machines hate them for some reason.
Click to expand...
One of my companies is an IT company and we have a 80/20 rule where 20% of people cause 80% of the problems. Some people are just cursed and no matter what we do we just know they'll continue to have issues.

Also to the same point just because something's top tier doesn't mean it'll last longer. Some things have better components and some things have more components. You can have the best build quality and best QC and shit happens, things fail. Also the saying "they don't make things like they used to" is based on fact.
 
Very true Justin.

If you own a Rolls Royce, your spare car does not need to be another Rolls Royce.

Or put another way, always have an alternative planned for anything that might possibly fail. Lighting, heating, cooking, transport, etc....
The alternative can be pretty primitive, but that is better than being completely snookered.
 
Last edited:
justinm001 said:
One of my companies is an IT company and we have a 80/20 rule where 20% of people cause 80% of the problems. Some people are just cursed and no matter what we do we just know they'll continue to have issues.

Also to the same point just because something's top tier doesn't mean it'll last longer. Some things have better components and some things have more components. You can have the best build quality and best QC and shit happens, things fail. Also the saying "they don't make things like they used to" is based on fact.
Click to expand...
You must have the same clients as me.

Unreal what some people can break. Hand them a brand new iPhone and 30 seconds later it's bricked. Don't get me started on passwords.
 
Steve_S said:
I use Tier-1 SCC, Inverter/Charger etc no AIO's for me. Any component fails I can swap it in a jiffy, even if I have to drive to a local solar supplier but I do shave some spare equipment kept from upgrades so I'm covered. IF an AIO fails then you're without an SCC, Inverter & Charger. Also having a bank of batteries also covers the redundancy if 1 or 2 drop for some reason.
Click to expand...

Agreed. You can build redundancy into a system. Multiple strings running into multiple SCCs. And them feeding into a battery bank with multiple batteries. Then a handful of smaller inverters running off that bank rather than one large inverter.

If something fails then only a percentage of my system is down while I acquire a new unit, rather than the whole system being down.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Offshoot of "Off grid people ill prepared"
Replies
4
Views
262
EastTexCowboy
EastTexCowboy
A
Can I Be My Own Grid?
Replies
18
Views
549
timselectric
T
P
Off grid setup using hybrid AIO
Replies
1
Views
186
DIYrich
D
Shaman
Help in getting started with hybrid/off grid. System design.
2
Replies
21
Views
634
Shaman
Shaman
C
Critial loads panel / 2nd GTI / new EG4 6000XP and powerpro
Replies
6
Views
378
timselectric
T
Back
Top