Orion Jr.2 BMS thread

[hammick]

I have installed the Orion Jr.2 BMS on my Lischen 272ah 16s pack. I'd like to use this thread to document my install for my off grid solar system and discussion with other users and potential users of the Jr.2 Since the Jr.2 is designed for electric vehicles I won't be using most of the options.

The Orion manuals are very detailed to the point I wish they had a manual for solar installs.

I purchased the BMS, the main wiring harness, the 200a hall effect current sensor and harness, and the Wifi Connect module and harness. Installation is pretty straight forward. There are 16 wires for the positive terminal of each cell and two negative tap wires that go on cell #1 and #9. I used the red M6 ring terminals and a ratcheting crimper I bought on Amazon. I highly recommend a ratcheting crimper, especially if you have any carpel tunnel onset.

The super expensive cell tap validator tool is absolutely not needed. It is very easy to check your cell tap connections using a paper clip and an alligator clip on your multimeter. Since the wires are clearly labeled I was tempted to skip the cell tap testing. I am very glad I didn't. Turns our I had the cells taps on cells 9 - 16 reversed. I might have fried my BMS if I connected it before I discovered my mistake.

The other connections are two power wires for the BMS and a ground wire. The Wifi module has a power wire and a ground. I found out that for stationary applications you only need to use the "Charge Power" wire to power the BMS.

I had trouble getting the Wifi module connected to my Wifi router until I used a paperclip in the "setup" hole. Once I did this it was very straight forward getting it connected and registered on their Cloud monitioring system.

I'm not impressed with the information available with Wifi module. It doesn't even show individual cell voltages. Just highest and lowest cell voltage. Sure that is all that is really needed but I expected more from such an expensive BMS. The Wifi module does not allow for any configuration, just monitoring. The Cloud based web interface is pretty dated and limited. I will probably return it if they will let me.

I have a Mini PC that I use to monitor my Schneider Conext equipment. I am going to move it close to the BMS so I can plug in the Serial to USB adapter and remotely monitor the BMS. I use TeamViewer for remote monitoring. This way I will have all the information available and full remote configuration.

I will have more information after I connect my batteries to my solar system. I am waiting on my buss bars. I will get some photos up soon.

 

[snoobler]

Watching. This BMS is on my list for possible use on my 39kWh LMO/NMC bank and Victron hardware.

 

[hammick]

Watching. This BMS is on my list for possible use on my 39kWh LMO/NMC bank and Victron hardware.

I am hoping to get it working with my Schneider equipment. Before purchasing the owner of the company said they have figured out how to control my equipment but it's not supported or sanctioned by Schneider. The Victron equipment shows in the configuration wizard so I think it looks positive for you.

 

[snoobler]

I am hoping to get it working with my Schneider equipment. Before purchasing the owner of the company said they have figured out how to control my equipment but it's not supported or sanctioned by Schneider. The Victron equipment shows in the configuration wizard so I think it looks positive for you.

Yep, and Orion is pretty much a top name. If I can get it for the same price as the Batrium with remote cell reporting/logging and direct comm/control via a Victron GX device, it's pretty much a done deal. I'm long past decision fatigue in my research.

 

[hammick]

Yep, and Orion is pretty much a top name. If I can get it for the same price as the Batrium with remote cell reporting/logging and direct comm/control via a Victron GX device, it's pretty much a done deal. I'm long past decision fatigue in my research.

Victron sounds like a great company. Schneider used to have great phone tech support and regular firmware updates. Now there is zero phone tech support and firmware updates are non-existent. Their only LifeP04 support is partnering with the high dollar drop in battery manufacturers. Thankfully I can use the custom setting to get the charging correct.

 

[JoeHam]

Victron sounds like a great company. Schneider used to have great phone tech support and regular firmware updates. Now there is zero phone tech support and firmware updates are non-existent. Their only LifeP04 support is partnering with the high dollar drop in battery manufacturers. Thankfully I can use the custom setting to get the charging correct.

Schneider’s email support is horrible. I have spent weeks to get nowhere with them.

On my CSW 4048 I cannot get the charge setting to adjust lower than 57.6v and after almost a month trying their support can’t figure it out either.

In the rare event I need the charger I would like to limit it at 3.5v per cell and it can’t even get close to that low.

 

[cinergi]

I'm currently using an Orion Jr 2 in my 16s battery, controlling Victron equipment via CAN. Getting the charge profile correct in that configuration is difficult and currently requires undocumented settings and beta firmware. I'll be doing an extensive video at some point, but happy to answer questions until then.

 

[snoobler]

I'm currently using an Orion Jr 2 in my 16s battery, controlling Victron equipment via CAN. Getting the charge profile correct in that configuration is difficult and currently requires undocumented settings and beta firmware. I'll be doing an extensive video at some point, but happy to answer questions until then.

Looking forward to it.

 

[hammick]

I'm currently using an Orion Jr 2 in my 16s battery, controlling Victron equipment via CAN. Getting the charge profile correct in that configuration is difficult and currently requires undocumented settings and beta firmware. I'll be doing an extensive video at some point, but happy to answer questions until then.

Thanks Cinergi. What batteries do you have? I briefly played around with the Beta software but didn't see any difference. The wizard does not list the Eve or Lischen cells. I'm a little confused on the SOC drift settings. I'm thinking they are not necessary since my cells will always have a load or a charge on them.

 

[cinergi]

Thanks Cinergi. What batteries do you have? I briefly played around with the Beta software but didn't see any difference. The wizard does not list the Eve or Lischen cells. I'm a little confused on the SOC drift settings. I'm thinking they are not necessary since my cells will always have a load or a charge on them.

EVE 280's. I modified one of the existing LFP profiles. The item needed to get a proper charge profile (via CANBUS control) is a hidden advanced feature that I can't talk about. I will do my best to get it in the public version or a similar solution.
SoC drift is always important to have -- otherwise the SoC will never adjust when one of the cells hits a configured threshold and you'll accumulate errors on the SoC so it won't be accurate. In addition, accurate SoC is needed for proper CANBUS-based charge control.

 

[hammick]

EVE 280's. I modified one of the existing LFP profiles. The item needed to get a proper charge profile (via CANBUS control) is a hidden advanced feature that I can't talk about. I will do my best to get it in the public version or a similar solution.
SoC drift is always important to have -- otherwise the SoC will never adjust when one of the cells hits a configured threshold and you'll accumulate errors on the SoC so it won't be accurate. In addition, accurate SoC is needed for proper CANBUS-based charge control.

Thanks. Do you mind telling which LFP profile you modified, the modifications and the drift settings (without sharing the hidden advanced features)? Andrew Ewart said he would get me connected to my Schneider equipment using CAN.

I have Lishen cells but the one I tested gave 287ah so I have no problem plagiarizing your settings if you don't mind. The cell drift setting are over my head.

 

[cinergi]

Thanks. Do you mind telling which LFP profile you modified, the modifications and the drift settings (without sharing the hidden advanced features)? Andrew Ewart said he would get me connected to my Schneider equipment using CAN.

I have Lishen cells but the one I tested gave 287ah so I have no problem plagiarizing your settings if you don't mind. The cell drift setting are over my head.

I will need time to do that. My battery is disassembled while I individually capacity test the cells. I think I took a calb 400 and changed the resistance settings. I set the drift settings to adjust upwards (like 99%) at like 3.5 volts and downwards (5%?) at around 2.8 volts ... I don't remember exactly but that should help you get started. The resistance settings need to be a LOT lower than the calb 400 profile otherwise your CCL will be significantly limited.

 

[hammick]

I will need time to do that. My battery is disassembled while I individually capacity test the cells. I think I took a calb 400 and changed the resistance settings. I set the drift settings to adjust upwards (like 99%) at like 3.5 volts and downwards (5%?) at around 2.8 volts ... I don't remember exactly but that should help you get started. The resistance settings need to be a LOT lower than the calb 400 profile otherwise your CCL will be significantly limited.

Thanks so much. Should I use the resistance settings on the label of my Lishen Cells which is 0.12 m ohms for all 16? Or do I need to test them all?

 

[rhino]

I've had some procedural issues I'm still trying to work out. When my Orion Jr. has a fault code I don't immediately realize that since my "remote monitoring" of the BMS is to directly access the mini-PC connected to the BMS and see what is going on.

The other issue is when there is a fault it isn't exactly spelled out in plain english what the issue is unless you look through all the settings dumped out with the fault code. I currently have an fault code that keeps going off due to "weak cell" which I believe is because it is falling outside the acceptable cell resistance range which I haven't figured out how to change yet.

 

[cinergi]

Thanks so much. Should I use the resistance settings on the label of my Lishen Cells which is 0.12 m ohms for all 16? Or do I need to test them all?

You can start with a conservative setting like 0.2 (across temperatures above freezing). The Orion will eventually figure out the real resistance values (which get lost on power down).

 

[hammick]

Attached are the pictures I promised. Batteries should be commisioned in 10 days or so when I receive my buss bars.

 

[hammick]

So I have the same problem Cinergi has. The Orion hall effect sensor won't fit over my 4/0 cable lugs. I don't want to buy smaller cables or use isolators and short sections of smaller cables as that defeats the purpose of the 4/0 cable. And I have no desire to re-crimp such big cables.

I had already planned to stack two of the buss bars Basen sent me on the + and - terminals and mount my blue seas fuses to those and then my 4/0 cables to the fuses. Any reason I can't put the hall effect sensor around the the double buss bars? I'm wondering if the lack of insulation matters. I plan to test this tomorrow but though I would ask here first.

Thanks.

 

[Ampster]

My recollection is the Hall effect sensor is insulated so that should not be an issue. I would also stack more of the copper plumbers tape or put the Hall effect sensor there with a new cable that the sensor fits around. I know the Orion can compensate for the increased resistance of a longer busbar in some point of the pack. I think the current will be the same but my Ohms law is sketchy this late in the evening so check my assumption

 

[hammick]

My recollection is the Hall effect sensor is insulated so that should not be an issue. I would also stack more of the copper plumbers tape or put the Hall effect sensor there with a new cable that the sensor fits around. I know the Orion can compensate for the increased resistance of a longer busbar in some point of the pack. I think the current will be the same but my Ohms law is sketchy this late in the evening so check my assumption

Thanks Ampster. That Basen bus bars and copper plumber's tape you see in the photos is temporary for testing. I have custom braided buss bars on the way.

I wish the Orion hall effect sensor had a longer loom. They must keep it short for accuracy. I'll have to mount the BMS to the side of the batteries.

 

[hammick]

Well my testing with the Jr.2 is not going well at all. I cannot get it throw an active cell fault no matter what I try. All it will throw is diagnostic trouble codes. And unless you are monitoring the BMS constantly diagnostic trouble codes are worthless. They don't stop charging or inverting from what the manual says.

The settings on this thing are ultra complex and and many have no explanations. Unless I can get some traction with Orion tech support I'm sending this back. Right now I have an $850 cell balancer.

UPDATE: Orion tech told me that diagnostic trouble codes are the same as active fault codes despite what their literature says. I really don't think it has any active fault codes. So it looks like it just isn't communicating with my Schneider equipment. I'll have to buy a contactor relay which means I'll have a thousand bucks into this thing. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!