diy solar

diy solar

Please Needing Help Quick

smoothJoey said:
Ok so you should see low resistance with shorted probes and similar between neutral and ground.
Click to expand...
OK doing it the way you asked I get 00.2 on 200m setting. I get almost the same across all 3 L N G all the way around I tried all. 00.2 average

Do we have a definitive answer as to the safety of letting me run it without the ground prong? I don’t wanna ruin anything but I need to charge these batteries….
 
Ok so I’m noticing it’s only charging intermittently. It’s staying on, not tripping GCFI, and inverter is showing constant 120v in. But the battery charging is not staying constant. It was for a while but it’s kinda coming and going now…. I don’t believe it’s supposed to do that normally. Again to restate, no loads are being applied to inverter.
 
AZ Off-Gridder said:
OK doing it the way you asked I get 00.2 on 200m setting. I get almost the same across all 3 L N G all the way around I tried all. 00.2 average

Do we have a definitive answer as to the safety of letting me run it without the ground prong? I don’t wanna ruin anything but I need to charge these batteries….
Click to expand...
If you have any children running around, keep them away from it. Until you fix it.
And, don't go licking on the generator. lol
 
AZ Off-Gridder said:
Ok so I’m noticing it’s only charging intermittently. It’s staying on, not tripping GCFI, and inverter is showing constant 120v in. But the battery charging is not staying constant. It was for a while but it’s kinda coming and going now…. I don’t believe it’s supposed to do that normally. Again to restate, no loads are being applied to inverter.
Click to expand...
No, that doesn't sound right.
 
AZ Off-Gridder said:
OK doing it the way you asked I get 00.2 on 200m setting. I get almost the same across all 3 L N G all the way around I tried all. 00.2 average

Do we have a definitive answer as to the safety of letting me run it without the ground prong? I don’t wanna ruin anything but I need to charge these batteries….
Click to expand...
I think that establishes that there is a bond between N and G.
Continuity between L and N is via the transformer windings.

Not sure how to test the MPP side.
Anybody else want to devise a test for that.
I'm off to bed.
 
I guess the first test is with the relay de-energised.
See if there is continuity between N and G.
But the real test will be with the relay energised and no bond at the generator.
Be careful.
 
smoothJoey said:
I guess the first test is with the relay de-energised.
See if there is continuity between N and G.
But the real test will be with the relay energised and no bond at the generator.
Be careful.
Click to expand...
Big storm came in. Can’t take any action tonight. But feel free to keep posting I’ll put all of this to work tomorrow. Thanks everyone
 
smoothJoey said:
Hold the phone.
In the picture in this post https://diysolarforum.com/threads/please-needing-help-quick.37551/post-474511
There are six wires landed to the MPP.
2 for PV
2 for DC
1 for the generator
What is the last wire connected to?
I wonder if its an ac distribution panel with a neutral/ground bond?
Click to expand...
That’s AC output. Loads connect to it. I’ve tested that it works, but it’s not being used at this time. It’s just a 3 prong 12awg cable. Goes nowhere.
 
Unrelated to the problem, but... in the same picture, it really looks like those batteries are not properly paralleled, are they?
Unless my eyes deceive me, you're drawing from the positive and negative of the same battery.
-
 
Don B. Cilly said:
Unrelated to the problem, but... in the same picture, it really looks like those batteries are not properly paralleled, are they?
Unless my eyes deceive me, you're drawing from the positive and negative of the same battery.
-
Click to expand...
Yes I am good catch. Been so long since I did a fresh instal I failed to notice. I’ll correct that tomorrow thanks
 
While you're experimenting with charging... having the batteries paralleled that way tends to "unbalance" them, doesn't it?
So it might be a good idea to disconnect them all, charge them individually to a full SOC, and then re-parallel them.
A bit of a drag, but while you're still in the setting-up phase...
-
 
AZ Off-Gridder said:
OK doing it the way you asked I get 00.2 on 200m setting. I get almost the same across all 3 L N G all the way around I tried all. 00.2 average

Do we have a definitive answer as to the safety of letting me run it without the ground prong? I don’t wanna ruin anything but I need to charge these batteries….
Click to expand...
It sounds like generator is neutral-ground bonded, but your statement of running without generator ground prong is concerning.

The basic issue is all wires carrying current will have some voltage drop. You don't want two distance separated points of neutral-ground wire connections. Because of neutral wire voltage drop due to current, with two or more neutral-ground connection points, it will cause some of the neutral wire current to jump over to the first neutral-ground connection to be carried by ground wire to second distant neutral-ground connection. This will trip a GFI breaker because the neutral and hot wire current is not identical. Neutral-ground connection should only be made at the AC source or at GFI sense point, which in this situation is at the generator.

Your measurement of continuity (when not running gen) between all generator socket prongs is normal when neutral is connected to ground frame of generator. Once generator frame is connected to neutral, the generator alternator windings will show continuity between L1, L2, and neutral, ground of generator. Without neutral to ground connection at generator, the L1-L2 and neutral will show continuity but there will be no continuity between L1-L2-N and generator case ground or AC socket ground prong. You should always see continuity between generator AC socket ground prong and generator metal frame.

The ground prong from generator output plug should be brought through the AC cord green wire all the way through to inverter case ground.

If you have generator going through a metal breaker panel, either main or auxiliary breaker panel, the panel case should also be connected to generator's ground prong green wire on plug.

General safety rule is all metal cases in system should be commonly connected to a ground wire with a single connection to an actual earth ground stake. This includes breaker panels, circuit breaker boxes, inverter case, and generator frame. You don't want to put left hand on one metal box and right hand on another metal box without their cases commonly wired with a connection to ground wire. Ground wires should normally carry no current.

If you are running through a normal house mains breaker box where grid comes in, its metal case will have a wire from outside earth ground stake and the panel's neutral bus bar will be connected to ground. In this situation, you don't need a separate grounding stake to earth ground on generator frame or neutral bonded to ground prong in generator. This would create two neutral-ground wires connection points if generator neutral is also connected to ground at generator. You do need to bring generator case ground plug prong to breaker box case ground through generator cord. In this situation the main breaker panel is providing the common single neutral-ground bonding point and earth ground stake connection. The generator frame is grounded through the connecting cord green ground wire connected to main panel case ground.

If totally off grid without a utility grid breaker box, you should have a ground stake to earth ground on generator frame and single neutral-ground connection at generator. Again, generator cord green ground wire is brought all the way through to inverter case ground.

I did not see what type of generator you are using. Is it an inverter-generator or regular 3600 rpm generator? Is it split phase 120v/240v or just 120 vac output generator?

Some 120vac only inverter-generators do not like having their neutral connected to case ground. They will typically state in their manual that they are not intended to be connected to house wiring and should only be used for appliances directly plugged into generator outlets. If this is the situation you may need an isolation transformer to allow inverter neutral to be ground connected.
 
RCinFLA said:
It sounds like generator is neutral-ground bonded, but your statement of running without generator ground prong is concerning.

The basic issue is all wires carrying current will have some voltage drop. You don't want two distance separated points of neutral-ground wire connections. Because of neutral wire voltage drop due to current, with two or more neutral-ground connection points, it will cause some of the neutral wire current to jump over to the first neutral-ground connection to be carried by ground wire to second distant neutral-ground connection. This will trip a GFI breaker because the neutral and hot wire current is not identical. Neutral-ground connection should only be made at the AC source or at GFI sense point, which in this situation is at the generator.

Your measurement of continuity (when not running gen) between all generator socket prongs is normal when neutral is connected to ground frame of generator. Once generator frame is connected to neutral, the generator alternator windings will show continuity between L1, L2, and neutral, ground of generator. Without neutral to ground connection at generator, the L1-L2 and neutral will show continuity but there will be no continuity between L1-L2-N and generator case ground or AC socket ground prong. You should always see continuity between generator AC socket ground prong and generator metal frame.

The ground prong from generator output plug should be brought through the AC cord green wire all the way through to inverter case ground.

If you have generator going through a metal breaker panel, either main or auxiliary breaker panel, the panel case should also be connected to generator's ground prong green wire on plug.

General safety rule is all metal cases in system should be commonly connected to a ground wire with a single connection to an actual earth ground stake. This includes breaker panels, circuit breaker boxes, inverter case, and generator frame. You don't want to put left hand on one metal box and right hand on another metal box without their cases commonly wired with a connection to ground wire. Ground wires should normally carry no current.

If you are running through a normal house mains breaker box where grid comes in, its metal case will have a wire from outside earth ground stake and the panel's neutral bus bar will be connected to ground. In this situation, you don't need a separate grounding stake to earth ground on generator frame or neutral bonded to ground prong in generator. This would create two neutral-ground wires connection points if generator neutral is also connected to ground at generator. You do need to bring generator case ground plug prong to breaker box case ground through generator cord. In this situation the main breaker panel is providing the common single neutral-ground bonding point and earth ground stake connection. The generator frame is grounded through the connecting cord green ground wire connected to main panel case ground.

If totally off grid without a utility grid breaker box, you should have a ground stake to earth ground on generator frame and single neutral-ground connection at generator. Again, generator cord green ground wire is brought all the way through to inverter case ground.

I did not see what type of generator you are using. Is it an inverter-generator or regular 3600 rpm generator? Is it split phase 120v/240v or just 120 vac output generator?

Some 120vac only inverter-generators do not like having their neutral connected to case ground. They will typically state in their manual that they are not intended to be connected to house wiring and should only be used for appliances directly plugged into generator outlets. If this is the situation you may need an isolation transformer to allow inverter neutral to be ground connected.
Click to expand...
Wow lots of great info! Thanks! Standard generator not inverter type. I’m totally off grid, using extension cable for now. Just getting setup no panels or boxes yet. So sounds like I need a ground stake in the earth connected to the meta frame ground on Generator? And then try again WITH a 3 prong cord, not the one I dismantled ;)
 
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