Plug and play kit - shed

[fakdaddy]

I can say one of these units with at least 150A of battery behind it will start and run anything I own with a regular 120/15A plug on it including a chop saw or a Mig welder - but not both at the same time.

You mentioned 150A.
Assuming you mean the BMS ?

Would 2x12v 200A batteries.like this be ok ? Not sure of the 150A requirement except for charging quicker ?

VINNOTECH 12V 200Ah Lithium Battery with 200A BMS, 12V 400Ah/ 24V 200Ah LiFePO4 Batteries, Over 4000+ Deep Cycle, for Solar, Marine, Trolling Motor, RV, Off-Grid Appliances, 2 Pack https://a.co/d/0bbbeXa


Costing out if this works wired in series
Or need true 24v battery
Or 5k server rack battery.

Seems battery would be 900-1200 depending on option

Panels maybe 3x200w used for $300 total and 600w

That inverter you linked for $400 ....

Around $1800 ..... ?

Wills video is cool using the 5k rack cells and the lv6548v ... but at $3300 not sure what it's buying me except faster charge capability.

Also you mentioned resting electric draw ... and winter time. How do these solar units perform in winter/dark skies.....etc

 

[OffGridForGood]

You mentioned 150A.
Assuming you mean the BMS ?

If your talking about the MPP 2724 inverter - yes it needs more than 100A DC to support it's max output.
Per the manual it shows 123A required.

Would 2x12v 200A batteries.like this be ok ? Not sure of the 150A requirement except for charging quicker ?

VINNOTECH 12V 200Ah Lithium Battery with 200A BMS, 12V 400Ah/ 24V 200Ah LiFePO4 Batteries, Over 4000+ Deep Cycle, for Solar, Marine, Trolling Motor, RV, Off-Grid Appliances, 2 Pack https://a.co/d/0bbbeXa


Costing out if this works wired in series
Or need true 24v battery
Or 5k server rack battery.

Seems battery would be 900-1200 depending on option

OR - DIY a battery

You mentioned 150A.
Assuming you mean the BMS ?

The inverter at peak output needs a supply side of at least 123A x 24v DC, so allowing for some losses I suggest you need about 150A x 24v DC from the battery. I noted this since a very common battery is going to be limited to just 100A and this will limit what the inverter can do, especially during any in-rush starting up things like motors. So "yes" the BMS needs to also be capable of 150A if you are using a single pack.

Panels maybe 3x200w used for $300 total and 600w

The MPP 2724 is limited to 800W PV for it's built in solar charge controller = 600W will work, be sure the voltage is more than the battery voltage.

That inverter you linked for $400 ....

Around $1800 ..... ?

Maybe you can find used or unboxed on line in your area to shave some off of the costs.
I really like DIY batteries but that is not for everyone.
Check out the thread on the forum where they post "the lowest price battery" options - seem these keep dropping, maybe you can do better.

Wills video is cool using the 5k rack cells and the lv6548v ... but at $3300 not sure what it's buying me except faster charge capability.

Also you mentioned resting electric draw ... and winter time. How do these solar units perform in winter/dark skies.....etc

But the MPP6548 is 48volt system and had double the output capacity of the 2724, and much higher PV input SCC. And, the 6548 is capable of parallel operation - ie adding more inverters to expand capacity. The MPP 2724 can't be set in parallel, so no expansion unless you change equipment, or run two side by side but not connected to each other.

My advice: think about what your goal is, and how much you want to spend right now. You may want to limit the spend and have a working system that is mobile enough to take with you camping, then the 2724 fits this idea. (It is like a low cost version of the "Solar Generators" DeltaPro/Ecoflo/Bluetti)
Or the goal may be to start a system that you can learn with as it grows, add more capacity over time (I did this) in which case the MPP2724 is not a good choice, since it doesn't allow parallel expansion.

{For larger capacity, expandable I am following 42Ohms in his thread on the SRNE 12k IP65, very interesting -note that this is a 10kW output, not 12}

 

[42OhmsPA]

{For larger capacity, expandable I am following 42Ohms in his thread on the SRNE 12k IP65, very interesting -note that this is a 10kW output, not 12}

I should have cleared up that thread title they do make a 12kW output that's ip65. I bought the 10kW ASP's that aren't IP65. Both are parallel capable.

Great advice in this thread. All I have to add is my current 10kW ASF (that can't be paralleled has handled everything I've thrown at it, from my deep well pump to air compressor to saws, grinders, dryers and stoves.

Definitely need to get a clamp meter and determine the inrush of your big AC loads. My well pump is ~40A / leg, I never clamped the air compressor but I'm confident it's more than that based on the running wattage.

My only complaint about the budget inverters mentioned is the idle consumption. My 6KW LVX6048/TP6048 was 135W, my 10KW ASF is 100W. A Victron, Schneider or other tier 1 will be much less.

 

[fakdaddy]

If your talking about the MPP 2724 inverter - yes it needs more than 100A DC to support it's max output.
Per the manual it shows 123A required.

The inverter at peak output needs a supply side of at least 123A x 24v DC, so allowing for some losses I suggest you need about 150A x 24v DC from the battery. I noted this since a very common battery is going to be limited to just 100A and this will limit what the inverter can do, especially during any in-rush starting up things like motors. So "yes" the BMS needs to also be capable of 150A if you are using a single pack.

Got it - guess I was thinking the BMS at 150A was really more for the charge side how quickly it can charge. Wasn't thinking of anything that needed 150A on supply side since everything is a 20A circuit for a 110v

My advice: think about what your goal is, and how much you want to spend right now. You may want to limit the spend and have a working system that is mobile enough to take with you camping, then the 2724 fits this idea. (It is like a low cost version of the "Solar Generators" DeltaPro/Ecoflo/Bluetti)

Its sort of simple I think - even though a bit wish/wash in my head. Yeah pretty much what you said. The deal is pretty simple. $6-8$k to run 220v to shed - and wont be much cheaper for 110v only. Well I rarely need 220v. So I could keep the compressor and welder up at the main house and do that stuff there, and go to a 110v only system at shed. Then its just about cost really. I would have no plans to expand. Just support a single power tool all day ......with low amp LED lighting and battery chargers. Biggest rush draw would be a large garage door on a motor - no idea what the rush amps would be.. else a grider/saw.

So in essence if I can save 4-5k going solar and it works - then I'd probably look at it seriously. The saved $$ better spent elsewhere plus its kinda cool. No plans to upgrade as decision would already be made ...... 220v at house. Cant run more than 1 main tool at a time physically.
I did seriously think about the Ecoflow's after this thread got started ...... but just dont the capacity you get ...... but love the form factor versus built DIY.

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This 150W idle drawndown might also be a concern especially on back to back rainy/cloudy days - zip 98382.

 

[Brucey]

Got it - guess I was thinking the BMS at 150A was really more for the charge side how quickly it can charge. Wasn't thinking of anything that needed 150A on supply side since everything is a 20A circuit for a 110v


Its sort of simple I think - even though a bit wish/wash in my head. Yeah pretty much what you said. The deal is pretty simple. $6-8$k to run 220v to shed - and wont be much cheaper for 110v only. Well I rarely need 220v. So I could keep the compressor and welder up at the main house and do that stuff there, and go to a 110v only system at shed. Then its just about cost really. I would have no plans to expand. Just support a single power tool all day ......with low amp LED lighting and battery chargers. Biggest rush draw would be a large garage door on a motor - no idea what the rush amps would be.. else a grider/saw.

So in essence if I can save 4-5k going solar and it works - then I'd probably look at it seriously. The saved $$ better spent elsewhere plus its kinda cool. No plans to upgrade as decision would already be made ...... 220v at house. Cant run more than 1 main tool at a time physically.
I did seriously think about the Ecoflow's after this thread got started ...... but just dont the capacity you get ...... but love the form factor versus built DIY.

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This 150W idle drawndown might also be a concern especially on back to back rainy/cloudy days - zip 98382.

If you do get an ecoflow make sure it's a Delta 2 max, dual 500W solar inputs and LFP cells, plus two expansion outputs.

 

[fakdaddy]

If you do get an ecoflow make sure it's a Delta 2 max, dual 500W solar inputs and LFP cells, plus two expansion outputs.

On the fence. But probably not just due to bang for buck - capacity/charging what not.
The portability and the form factor are nice though.

Now IM trying to decide on the AIO. Seems real mixed reviews going of review sites. Rarely over 4 star.
Was looking at wills eg4 build ...... but then this thread

EG4 warranty question.

At this point doesn't seem to matter who owns what. They are more concerned with new money from new customers...Every where I go to on the internet they have more money in advertising. I understand they need to keep THEIR lights on. Mine not so much.... Hi @exmarkretired - In order to...

diysolarforum.com

Are most people doing AIO - or splitting the mppt controller to a separate inverter. Dont know why the seperate box style inverters that have no controller for solar have great reviews ...... and same for dedicated only mppt chargers ...... but then AOI dont - all mixed.
Will used EG4 ........ but not much info on them without going through peoples build threads ........

leaning SS however and eg4.
I liked offgrids solution on the 2.7kw unit also ........

 

[Louis_8]

Rolls Surrette, Sonnenschein, Trojan - the brands you suggest are all flooded lead acid - expensive, slow charging, half the capacity wasted, must be in vented enclosure, and require regular checks and maintenance, and heavy. Reliable yes if you do the maint and don't stress them you can get 10 year, but if you don't you will get only a couple of years.

LFP (LiFePO4) batteries you can use 90% capacity, charge at much higher rates (important if you want to get a full charge from the sun in 4 hours), no venting required, and less than 1/2 the weight of lead acid, last 10~15+ years. The downside of these is they can't be charged below 32f


This is a DIY website - you are welcome to spend money on an electrician and drive up the cost, but it isn't anything complicated for this sort of thing. Nothing beyond the average person if they have ever done any kind of wiring.


i.e. if you are going to suggest an electrician to folks asking questions here you would be better off on one of the electrician boards that just tell folks to go find a local electrician.

Rob, I get your point about DIY projects and the benefits of LFP batteries—they do have higher capacity, faster charging, no venting needed, and they last longer. They’re a great choice over lead-acid batteries, especially for solar setups.

My suggestion to use an electrician is about safety and making sure everything works right. Setting up an auto transfer system for a backup generator involves dealing with serious electrical work. An experienced electrician can make sure it’s done correctly, follows local codes, and integrates well with your existing setup. They can also help with labeling circuit breakers and creating wiring diagrams, which is handy for future troubleshooting.

For those comfortable with electrical work, a DIY approach can be rewarding and save money. It's just important to know your limits and make sure the job is done safely.

 

[fakdaddy]

Rob, I get your point about DIY projects and the benefits of LFP batteries—they do have higher capacity, faster charging, no venting needed, and they last longer. They’re a great choice over lead-acid batteries, especially for solar setups.

My suggestion to use an electrician is about safety and making sure everything works right. Setting up an auto transfer system for a backup generator involves dealing with serious electrical work. An experienced electrician can make sure it’s done correctly, follows local codes, and integrates well with your existing setup. They can also help with labeling circuit breakers and creating wiring diagrams, which is handy for future troubleshooting.

For those comfortable with electrical work, a DIY approach can be rewarding and save money. It's just important to know your limits and make sure the job is done safely.

Problem is you dont know whta you dont know
I wired a 220v dedicated run into my panel for my welder no issues and pretty simple.
Also do relocation or addition of 110v stuff when needed.

But once you start getting into nultiole branches, shuts, safety switches, high loads, complexity and design - does get a bit ominous.

I think a simple 3k-5k unit will be the way to go. I already have a solution for for my 220v problem ...... so now IM just down to running led lights , garage door and simple 15A tools.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Its sort of simple I think - even though a bit wish/wash in my head. Yeah pretty much what you said. The deal is pretty simple. $6-8$k to run 220v to shed - and wont be much cheaper for 110v only. Well I rarely need 220v. So I could keep the compressor and welder up at the main house and do that stuff there, and go to a 110v only system at shed. Then its just about cost really. I would have no plans to expand. Just support a single power tool all day ......with low amp LED lighting and battery chargers. Biggest rush draw would be a large garage door on a motor - no idea what the rush amps would be.. else a grider/saw.

Typical Gararge door operator is 1/2 Hp 120v (unless it's a monster door!) so half horse 120v will draw about 3Amp running could peak at 9-10A in-rush for a half cycle or so, and not too hard to start since the door doesn't start to lift until the top moves along the track a bit. My 2724 would run that.
You don't really need more than a 3kW inverter for any of the items you list.

Without any 240 volt loads you have a lot of options that would run everything you list. Depending on your budget you could look at Victron or SMA gear, and have lower standby current draw. I think you listed Pacific-NW so that may mean challenging PV at times, and low idle consumption becomes pretty important.
For a more cost competitive option I would look at the SRNE that @42OhmsPA has experience with - better idle current than the MPP LVX6048, and his new 10kW output unit looks like it is no more expensive than a typical 6kW inverter from his other thread.

Does the shed have heat? What are your winter temperatures? - just asking since the LFP batteries need to be kept above freezing to charge.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Wasn't thinking of anything that needed 150A on supply side since everything is a 20A circuit for a 110v

To supply 20A 120 volt using a 24 volt inverter:
20A x 120 v = 2400Watts (plus the inverter uses some energy and the system will have some losses say 2400 x 1.15 for losses = 2760Watts
The battery is 24 volt, to supply 2760Watts we will need: 2760/24 = 115A - again there will be some losses for the battery and wires and the battery could be at a low state of charge, ie less than 24 volts which would increase the current a bit more to supply that 20A 120v load.

 

[fakdaddy]

Typical Gararge door operator is 1/2 Hp 120v (unless it's a monster door!) so half horse 120v will draw about 3Amp running could peak at 9-10A in-rush for a half cycle or so, and not too hard to start since the door doesn't start to lift until the top moves along the track a bit. My 2724 would run that.
You don't really need more than a 3kW inverter for any of the items you list.

Without any 240 volt loads you have a lot of options that would run everything you list. Depending on your budget you could look at Victron or SMA gear, and have lower standby current draw. I think you listed Pacific-NW so that may mean challenging PV at times, and low idle consumption becomes pretty important.
For a more cost competitive option I would look at the SRNE that @42OhmsPA has experience with - better idle current than the MPP LVX6048, and his new 10kW output unit looks like it is no more expensive than a typical 6kW inverter from his other thread.

Does the shed have heat? What are your winter temperatures? - just asking since the LFP batteries need to be kept above freezing to charge.

Thanks.
Yeah figure I will have to do some testing realtime to see what my current/amps IN using different panels at differnt times is due to PNW. BUt we are in one of the more sunny parts.

Shed will have propane heat ........ and insulaion ...... but that wont help overnight if we get a snow storm for 2 weeks. I'll have to rig a disconnect AND rely on the low temp cutoff.

The door will be big 12x14 ........ but I think the peak Amps is still low. but TBD.

DO see some good prices on SRNE inverters on aliexpress Not sure but might be worth it since most coming from there anyways.

 

[42OhmsPA]

If you only need 120V pick up and SRNE HYP. 5000W output, 5500W 500V 22A MPPT, 50W idle, claimed 4hp motor starting. Should be able to get one delivered for under $700. They can be paralleled for future expansion / split phase output.

 

[OffGridForGood]

SRNE HYP. 5000W output, 5500W

What is the idle current on the 5kW?

 

[42OhmsPA]

What is the idle current on the 5kW?

50W per SRNE when I inquired, I believe that based on the clamp meter results on my 10kW.

 

[fakdaddy]

If you only need 120V pick up and SRNE HYP. 5000W output, 5500W 500V 22A MPPT, 50W idle, claimed 4hp motor starting. Should be able to get one delivered for under $700. They can be paralleled for future expansion / split phase output.

Go a good vendor you've worked with over their through ali ?
Yeah I saw $450 off - but then shipping

thx

 

[fakdaddy]

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[42OhmsPA]

Go a good vendor you've worked with over their through ali ?
Yeah I saw $450 off - but then shipping

thx

All 3 of mine shipped from Borick; the ASF was purchased through SRNE but shipped from Borick, the ASPs were purchased through Borick.
Link in here.
Make sure you request DDP shipping and airfreight. For reference 2 ASPs were ~$550 DHL air freight DDP.
Just start a chat... This is the 120V model HYP4850U100-H

 

[fakdaddy]

Thx

 

[42OhmsPA]

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That's the older HF model, lower current MPPT and charging current; also I'm not sure it can be paralleled.
This is the HYP Note I no nothing about the seller in that link.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Thx

You're welcome.

 

[OffGridForGood]

All 3 of mine shipped from Borick; the ASF was purchased through SRNE but shipped from Borick, the ASPs were purchased through Borick.

Clearing up a question, the SRNE ASP is the parallel enabled version, and the ASF is not parallelable?

 

[42OhmsPA]

Clearing up a question, the SRNE ASP is the parallel enabled version, and the ASF is not parallelable?

Correct.

 

[dcswindler4]

You should always try and get things like this directly from the manufacturer BUT ecoworthy has a rebranded SRNE HYP which is often on eBay for $659 with 20% off codes. After the coupon I picked one up for $527, $562 shipped after taxes. It's been great so far and it was delivered in a week...always an option