Pre-Charge Switch

[chrisski]

I'm resuming this post because I'd like to build something similar, but I can't find the Perko and Mariner in Europe, and shipping costs from the US are too expensive. The Blue Seas 1+2 version is currently on sale on amazon for 40euro, so I was thinking of getting that.
@chrisski di you end up finishing your build? Is it working well? Curious to know your opinion.

The Blue Sea 1+2 switch I installed is working well with no issues. No more sparks.

Prior to the install of this switch and resistor, sparking was a huge issue for me, but no longer.

The only issue with the Blue Sea switch as compared to the Perko switch is since the Blue sea switch will rotate in 360 degrees in both directions, I need to activate the Blue Sea switch in the correct order and not backwards. Since the Perko switch can't rotate 360 degrees, The Perko switch can't be activated backwards.

 

[filippomasoni]

The Blue Sea 1+2 switch I installed is working well with no issues. No more sparks.

Prior to the install of this switch and resistor, sparking was a huge issue for me, but no longer.

The only issue with the Blue Sea switch as compared to the Perko switch is since the Blue sea switch will rotate in 360 degrees in both directions, I need to activate the Blue Sea switch in the correct order and not backwards. Since the Perko switch can't rotate 360 degrees, The Perko switch can't be activated backwards.

Thanks for the quick reply.
I've read previous posts and I was also thinking of that issue. It's not a full proof switch. Kind of like the pre-charge temporary button. But if we draw a circle with an arrow in the right direction on the switch or outside of it maybe it's better.

Do you have any photos of your connections, you were mentioning busbars? I was thinking for my built to connect the switch directly to a copper bar and have a t-class fuse inline.

 

[chrisski]

I don’t have a photo withthe new switch, but this is a photo of the old switch in:


The new switch has a copper bar coming out the bottom.

I’ll tryto find some more recent photos after work today.

 

[filippomasoni]

I don’t have a photo withthe new switch, but this is a photo of the old switch in:
View attachment 124449
View attachment 124450
The new switch has a copper bar coming out the bottom.

I’ll tryto find some more recent photos after work today.

Great, that's very similar to what I had in mind, only with one pack of 8S instead of tow. Dlad to know busbars work to connect the switch directly.

 

[FilterGuy]

I've read previous posts and I was also thinking of that issue. It's not a full proof switch. Kind of like the pre-charge temporary button. But if we draw a circle with an arrow in the right direction on the switch or outside of it maybe it's better.

I have never tried it, but you might be able to Glue/screw some protrusions on the switch that would prevent going grom 'OFF' to "2"



This would accomplish the same but the protrusion would be out the back of the dial



Of course, this takes the big red ugly switch and makes it uglier......

 

[Sanwizard]

I have never tried it, but you might be able to Glue/screw some protrusions on the switch that would prevent going grom 'OFF' to "2"

View attachment 124483

This would accomplish the same but the protrusion would be out the back of the dial

View attachment 124484

Of course, this takes the big red ugly switch and makes it uglier......

Guys, please check with Blue Sea support. Those switches work, but are not rated for our use case. The pic shows max 32V DC. I returned one that was 48V DC. You need to get one rated for at least 60V.

 

[chrisski]

Guys, please check with Blue Sea support. Those switches work, but are not rated for our use case. The pic shows max 32V DC. I returned one that was 48V DC. You need to get one rated for at least 60V.

I completely agree with this Blue Sea Switc is not rated for a 48 volt system.

I will even say if an equalization cycle is used, may need to be a couple volts over 60.

This switch already being installed when I was 12 volts and not being rated above 48 volts is a reason I went with a 12 volt to 24 volt upgrade and not a 12 volt to 48 volt upgrade.

People have used this for a 48 volt upgrade, but it definitely exceeds specs and I would not.

 

[FilterGuy]

The

I completely agree with this Blue Sea Switc is not rated for a 48 volt system.

I will even say if an equalization cycle is used, may need to be a couple volts over 60.

This switch already being installed when I was 12 volts and not being rated above 48 volts is a reason I went with a 12 volt to 24 volt upgrade and not a 12 volt to 48 volt upgrade.

People have used this for a 48 volt upgrade, but it definitely exceeds specs and I would not.

That is why I recommend the Marinco switch for 48V systems and the Perco for 24v and 12V systems. It is unfortunate Marinco and Perco are not available in Europe.

I have to believe there is something available in Europe.... If I had the correct VPN, I would switch to an EU server and search for a switch as if I was in Europe.....but I don't have that.

 

[filippomasoni]

The

That is why I recommend the Marinco switch for 48V systems and the Perco for 24v and 12V systems. It is unfortunate Marinco and Perco are not available in Europe.

I have to believe there is something available in Europe.... If I had the correct VPN, I would switch to an EU server and search for a switch as if I was in Europe.....but I don't have that.

I've searched a lot, most stuff is cheap Chinese which might work for many people but not advised for a proper system. The blue sea is the only brand one I found, mostly on marine online sellers and amazon. Even the victron switch is difficult to find, which is weird because they are from Europe, that's made for 48V systems but it's only the on-off type.

There's probably something out there, but difficult to find between all of the Chinese stuff that looks similar.

I just did a new search and the Perko is available in Europe, but with prices around 100euro.

I have a 24V system so that's not an issue for me, the blue sea is good quality and for 45euro I think it's a good deal.
I just ordered the black version from Amazon, maybe I'll try the protrusion idea...

 

[FilterGuy]

maybe I'll try the protrusion idea...

A long time ago, someone posted some images of a switch that was modified to prevent the 'Off -> 2 Transistion' but I can't find it now. I can't remember the details of how they did it, but I mention it because there is existence proof it can be done.

If you do it, let us know how it goes!

 

[FilterGuy]

BTW: If you are willing to trust something from china, I found this switch on Ali Express

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803782356056.html

or
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804755965733.html (Select the one with OFF-ON-Combine)

It looks like it would work for 12 & 24V systems

 

[FilterGuy]

BTW: If you are willing to trust something from china, I found this switch on Ali Express

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803782356056.html

or
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804755965733.html (Select the one with OFF-ON-Combine)

It looks like it would work for 12 & 24V systems

View attachment 124536

View attachment 124537

That switch looked familiar so I went looking and found this:

https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/68/Blue_Sea_Systems_Dual_Circuit_Battery_Switch

If Blue Sea products are available in EU, it would be an option. There are E and M versions of the same switch. The E is rated for more current.

 

[FilterGuy]

That switch looked familiar so I went looking and found this:

https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/68/Blue_Sea_Systems_Dual_Circuit_Battery_Switch

If Blue Sea products are available in EU, it would be an option. There are E and M versions of the same switch. The E is rated for more current.

BTW: I added the Blue Sea Switch to the resource

Inverter Disconnect Switch with Precharge

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of this page. This circuit is designed as a disconnect switch that allows the user to pre-charge the inverter capacitors before turning the switch completely on. 26 June 2020 update: At...

diysolarforum.com

 

[filippomasoni]

BTW: I added the Blue Sea Switch to the resource

Inverter Disconnect Switch with Precharge

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of this page. This circuit is designed as a disconnect switch that allows the user to pre-charge the inverter capacitors before turning the switch completely on. 26 June 2020 update: At...

diysolarforum.com

View attachment 124580

That's great, thank you for the time you dedicate to create and update this free resource!
Is the layout the same as the 1+2 switch?

 

[FilterGuy]

Is the layout the same as the 1+2 switch?

First.... I have never laid my hands on this switch. I am going by the ads and specs.

The layout would be different than the 1+2 Switch. This is how I believe it could be used:

Please see the resource on the discussion of the PTC fuse and whether it is needed.


One nice thing about this switch is that the wires for the resistor are on two separate posts from the big battery & Inverter wires.
However, I don't know if it will be possible to mount the large resisters under the switch like you can with the Perko.

The logic looks like this:


If anyone decides to build this, please report back on what you learn.

 

[FilterGuy]

I also tried to find an alternative to the Marinco for 48V systems. I have not yet found one.

Ali Express has some 48V battery combiners... unfortunately they are the type that allows the user to go from OFF directly to 2.

Here is one example.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832870573258.html

 

[FilterGuy]

Interesting....
I was looking for a 48V switch that might be available in Europe and I discovered that both Marinco and Blue Sea are both sub-brands of the Navico Group. I also found that BEP (Another brand of Navico) sells the same switch as Marinco.

This is all to say that if you are in Europe there are a couple of possibilities for finding the Mainco switch (or the BEB equivalent)

* Search for BEP switches.
* Contact the Blue Seas distributor and see if they know where you can get Marinco or BEP products.

If anyone in Europe has any luck, please let me know.

 

[FilterGuy]

I sent a message to Marinco asking about EU distribution and got this back.

Hello,​

For assistance in receiving pricing and availability, please contact an authorized Retailer/Distributor.​

• Distributor Locator (marinco.com)
  https://marinco.com/en/Distributor-Locator
  
  
• Where to Buy - Blue Sea Systems
  https://www.bluesea.com/locator
  
  
• Distributor Locator (promariner.com)
  https://www.promariner.com/en/Distributor-Locator

Best regards,​

​

Carla​

Customer Service Representative​

800-307-6702 – Toll Free​

N85 W12545 Westbrook Crossing​

Menomonee Falls, WI 53051​

​

These may help you track down the gear.

(If you find the 48V switch in Europe, please let me know.)

 

[Frick]

I think the blue seas version is the same, any 2 battery bank switch should be fine.

I'm resuming this post because I'd like to build something similar, but I can't find the Perko and Mariner in Europe, and shipping costs from the US are too expensive. The Blue Seas 1+2 version is currently on sale on amazon for 40euro, so I was thinking of getting that.
@chrisski di you end up finishing your build? Is it working well? Curious to know your opinion.

 

[filippomasoni]

Here is my setup with the Blue Sea 1+2 switch (model 6007, link to website):



This is the official wiring diagram.

Let me know if you find anything wrong before I wire everything and test it with the battery.
I plan to use this as a main battery switch since I experienced some sparks when charging with a bench power supply.
Once I have it mounted on the battery enclosure I will write arrows around it to specify the order of rotation, OFF -> 1 -> 1+2 -> 2, and figure out a way to block the rotation from 2 to OFF with a metal bracket.