Quote/Build Review Guidance

[palehorse]

Hi Everyone,

First let me say thank you to those offering your help, guidance and wisdom.

I would like some feedback on one of the proposals I got from a solar company. Primarily on the cost/watt and quality of equipment. What I am providing below is the only information I have thus far but I am happy to get more based on your feedback.

Proposed System which should cover 98% of my consumption. These will be mounted on my south facing shop. The entire house is electric with the largest things to run in my house are 2 stage 5 Ton heat pump, 85 gal Marathon water heater and stove/oven. I do have 240v for equipment in my shop.

• 15.36kw (32) of Canadian Solar BiHiKU5 480w commercial panels. (They do large ag jobs and get these at a good price so hence why its being used on residential as an option)
• (1) 15k Sol-ARK (I think these are fantastic)
• (1) 19.2kwh HomeGrid Battery ( I am considering adding 1 more module for a total of 24kwh)
• Tigo Optimizers (dont know what model) I need these as I have shading at various parts of the day.

From my calculations with discounts and NOT including the Fed 30% credit, this comes to:

• Panels (including installation, racking, electrical material and labor etc) $43,129 or $2.80/watt
• Tigo Optimizers, Sol-Ark 15k and HomeGrid = $19,750. Not sure of the exact breakdown but i guess the inverter is $7,500.

Total price before 30% credit is $62,887
That is all I know for now and would like some help knowing if this is a good deal, technology etc.

Thanks everyone!

 

[MisterSandals]

(1) 19.2kw HomeGrid ( I am considering adding 1 more module for a total of 24kw)

Is this a battery? Is that 19.2kWh or a 19.2kW inverter?

 

[palehorse]

HomeGrid 19.2kw of battery.

 

[MisterSandals]

HomeGrid 19.2kw of battery.

I am not sure who is sizing the battery at "19.2kw". I would not use a battery maker or an installer that does not know what a kWh is.

 

[palehorse]

That is my fault then. I listed kw vs kwh. Its 4 modules at 4.8kwh each for a total of 19.2. Attached is the spec sheet.

 

[GuyG]

Hi Everyone,

First let me say thank you to those offering your help, guidance and wisdom.

I would like some feedback on one of the proposals I got from a solar company. Primarily on the cost/watt and quality of equipment. What I am providing below is the only information I have thus far but I am happy to get more based on your feedback.

Proposed System which should cover 98% of my consumption. These will be mounted on my south facing shop. The entire house is electric with the largest things to run in my house are 2 stage 5 Ton heat pump, 85 gal Marathon water heater and stove/oven. I do have 240v for equipment in my shop.

• 15.36kw (32) of Canadian Solar BiHiKU5 480w commercial panels. (They do large ag jobs and get these at a good price so hence why its being used on residential as an option)
• (1) 15k Sol-ARK (I think these are fantastic)
• (1) 19.2kw HomeGrid Battery ( I am considering adding 1 more module for a total of 24kw)
• Tigo Optimizers (dont know what model) I need these as I have shading at various parts of the day.

From my calculations with discounts and NOT including the Fed 30% credit, this comes to:

• Panels (including installation, racking, electrical material and labor etc) $43,129 or $2.80/watt
• Tigo Optimizers, Sol-Ark 15k and HomeGrid = $19,750. Not sure of the exact breakdown but i guess the inverter is $7,500.

Total price before 30% credit is $62,887
That is all I know for now and would like some help knowing if this is a good deal, technology etc.

Thanks everyone!

Not knowing the difficulty or complexity of installing this at your site, I’ll offer you some info on the material costs and let you decide if the installer’s labor and profit above his costs are fair.

Pallet quantity of those panels should run about 65-70 cents per watt for anyone. Shipping might be a bit, which is prolly offset by contractor’s discount.

Racking materials for a roof mount should run about $1,000 or maybe a bit more; but I notice those panels are bi-facial so I’m assuming ground mount. No idea what it costs in your area to sink four posts and put up girders/trusses for the panels.

Tigo optimizers cost about $40-45 each, retail. Plus you’ll need one TAP unit and the controller/transmitter. $400 for both. PV wire is pretty cheap; couple hundred bucks I would guess.

SolArk 15k costs $8,250 retail.

Homegrid batteries are nice and look great. They cost (again retail) almost $12,000 (plus shipping) for 19KwH; for about $2,000 less you might prefer a cabinet of EG4’s with over 30KwH.

A big selling point on Sol-Arks is that they don’t require a lot of time and effort to install/configure. Connect the PV, batteries, AC inputs and outputs, and you’re ready to flip the switch and commission it.

Is there a lot of extra electrical work needed? New service entrance or main panel? Adding a bypass switch?

 

[MisterSandals]

Attached is the spec sheet.

That looks like a nice battery. 10 year warranty is nice if the company is around that long.
Wondering if monitoring requires their server to be up and running to monitor your system? Is there a fee for using their server?

I have friend with such a system... they went out of business and he has no monitoring capability.

Total price before 30% credit is $62,887

What is your estimated payback period?
How much of thislquipment will last that long?

Looking at this from backup power peace of mind and capibilities, how important is that (in terms of value or necessity)?

That is my fault then. I listed kw vs kwh.

FWIW, i wasn't <intentionally> trying to be a grammar/units Nazi, i was trying to evaluate whether your battery maker and/or installer knew what they were talking about. You're not supposed to believe everything you read on the internet, so "I" look at little things to better evaluate who is right and who is blowing smoke. This is different for everybody but thats what i look at.

 

[palehorse]

That looks like a nice battery. 10 year warranty is nice if the company is around that long.
Wondering if monitoring requires their server to be up and running to monitor your system? Is there a fee for using their server?

I have friend with such a system... they went out of business and he has no monitoring capability.

What is your estimated payback period?
How much of thislquipment will last that long?

Looking at this from backup power peace of mind and capibilities, how important is that (in terms of value or necessity)?


FWIW, i wasn't <intentionally> trying to be a grammar/units Nazi, i was trying to evaluate whether your battery maker and/or installer knew what they were talking about. You're not supposed to believe everything you read on the internet, so "I" look at little things to better evaluate who is right and who is blowing smoke. This is different for everybody but thats what i look at.

I dont think there is a fee. I was planning on using the monitoring from the Sol-Ark for both usage and capacity of the battery. HomeGrid seems solid and is backed by Lithion so I feel good so far.

Right now I am looking at a 15 year return assuming a 2% utility yearly increase. I would like to see something around the 10-12 year mark.


The battery backup is very important to me to help with grid down situations or bad weather.

And I appreciate the checkup on the kwh. Its important to label things correctly.

 

[palehorse]

Not knowing the difficulty or complexity of installing this at your site, I’ll offer you some info on the material costs and let you decide if the installer’s labor and profit above his costs are fair.

Pallet quantity of those panels should run about 65-70 cents per watt for anyone. Shipping might be a bit, which is prolly offset by contractor’s discount.

Racking materials for a roof mount should run about $1,000 or maybe a bit more; but I notice those panels are bi-facial so I’m assuming ground mount. No idea what it costs in your area to sink four posts and put up girders/trusses for the panels.

Tigo optimizers cost about $40-45 each, retail. Plus you’ll need one TAP unit and the controller/transmitter. $400 for both. PV wire is pretty cheap; couple hundred bucks I would guess.

SolArk 15k costs $8,250 retail.

Homegrid batteries are nice and look great. They cost (again retail) almost $12,000 (plus shipping) for 19KwH; for about $2,000 less you might prefer a cabinet of EG4’s with over 30KwH.

A big selling point on Sol-Arks is that they don’t require a lot of time and effort to install/configure. Connect the PV, batteries, AC inputs and outputs, and you’re ready to flip the switch and commission it.

Is there a lot of extra electrical work needed? New service entrance or main panel? Adding a bypass switch?

Thanks GuyG,

Knowing those numbers helps. I have a 200amp panel with a manual transfer switch connected next to it. I have the ability to shut off grid and run my portable generator to power the main panel while selecting only certain circuits. So the electrical needed could be difficult which may increase the labor cost.

This will be roof mounted and I agree bifacials serve little extra benefit but since they buy them in bulk for ag projects they are able to get them cheaper than most mono panels.

I wouldn't mind the EG4s but this company doesn't have experience in that and I dont like being the guinea pig.

 

[OzSolar]

How many kWh's per year are they predicting this system will produce? (sorry I didn't see if was already mentioned)

 

[palehorse]

How many kWh's per year are they predicting this system will produce? (sorry I didn't see if was already mentioned)

System Size
15.36 kW DC

Estimated First Year Production
20,187 kWh AC

 

[GuyG]

Thanks GuyG,

Knowing those numbers helps. I have a 200amp panel with a manual transfer switch connected next to it. I have the ability to shut off grid and run my portable generator to power the main panel while selecting only certain circuits. So the electrical needed could be difficult which may increase the labor cost.

Actually, it sounds like a pretty easy setup. The SolArk has a gen port that could wire out to a dryer plug near where you’d be running your generator. Then just build a male-male connector wire to take off all your gen power and plug it into the Solark dryer plug to give you extra power whenever the grid goes down. Solark handles the grid disconnect/anti-islanding so you don’t even need the external transfer switch. Win/win.

 

[OzSolar]

System Size
15.36 kW DC

Estimated First Year Production
20,187 kWh AC

Those are reasonable numbers. What's your rate structure? Lot's of changes going on across the country with net metering and TOU. It would be wise to really understand what's going with your rates.

 

[timselectric]

The SolArk has a gen port that could wire out to a dryer plug near where you’d be running your generator. Then just build a male-male connector wire to take off all your gen power and plug it into the Solark dryer plug to give you extra power whenever the grid goes down.

Absolutely not. This will get someone hurt or killed.
This is called a suicide cord for a reason.

 

[GuyG]

Absolutely not. This will get someone hurt or killed.
This is called a suicide cord for a reason.

Yep. You’d need to be real careful and not do something like cranking up the gen and then grabbing the plug prongs. Much safer to hardwire it, but then it would no longer be a portable generator. Or forego the extra power and get by on the SolArk’s 12Kw battery output.

 

[palehorse]

Those are reasonable numbers. What's your rate structure? Lot's of changes going on across the country with net metering and TOU. It would be wise to really understand what's going with your rates.

I pay 0.11/kw and as of now there is no TOU. So I think I could make up some of the credits in the spring and fall.

 

[palehorse]

Yep. You’d need to be real careful and not do something like cranking up the gen and then grabbing the plug prongs. Much safer to hardwire it, but then it would no longer be a portable generator. Or forego the extra power and get by on the SolArk’s 12Kw battery output.

I was planning on having it tied into my portable through an existing 30amp L14-30 outlet. That breaker would just be hard wired into the sol-ark gen input.

 

[palehorse]

What do you guys think about the price for what I am getting? If I add up all the parts it comes to around 32k. Which means there is another 30k of labor which seems very high to me.

 

[timselectric]

Yep. You’d need to be real careful and not do something like cranking up the gen and then grabbing the plug prongs. Much safer to hardwire it, but then it would no longer be a portable generator. Or forego the extra power and get by on the SolArk’s 12Kw battery output.

Just do it properly with an inlet receptacle.
They are designed for the purpose.

 

[timselectric]

What do you guys think about the price for what I am getting? If I add up all the parts it comes to around 32k. Which means there is another 30k of labor which seems very high to me.

It's probably a fair price for your area.
But I'm a diy cheapskate. So it's about $40k more than I would pay. lol