Replacing MPPT for 6S2P 1kW system, looking at Victron vs EpEver

[daveola]

I need a simple MPPT for my 1kW system, 6S2P of 85W panels (22.7Voc, so 136.2Voc for the whole system).

I stupidly disconnected my Outback FM-80 from the battery without realizing it, and fried it. So be it.

The panels are not easily accessible/rewireable, so they're going to stay in that 6S2P configuration, even though if I put it in 12S I could probably just use the PV inputs on my EG4 6500 inverter (min 90Vdc input). Since that's min 90Vdc, I believe my six panels in series will usually or often drop below 90Vdc, so I am pretty sure I can't reasonably use the PV inputs on my inverter.

I was looking at the EpEver systems, but it looks like they need fiddling, and for a couple hundred more I can get Victron which is evidently set it and forget it, which is more what I need, though I'd be happy to hear that I'm wrong so I can save a couple hundred bucks.

The problem I have is the product lineup for Victron has many options, and it's not particularly clear what the differences are.

For example, I see the BlueSolar MPPT 150/35, the SmartSolar MPPT 150/35, then I see the the SmartSolar "TR" controller, and it looks like there is also a BlueSolar Tr as well, but I can't tell if that's a different device.

One of the differences seems to be over Bluetooth, and it looks like the "Blue"Solar does not have Bluetooth. Is that just a terrible coincidence that the "Blue"Solar is the one that does not have Bluetooth?

Is there any way to get a comparison chart of the different Victron MPPT options?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I need a simple MPPT for my 1kW system, 6S2P of 85W panels (22.7Voc, so 136.2Voc for the whole system).

I stupidly disconnected my Outback FM-80 from the battery without realizing it, and fried it. So be it.

This is generally a non-issue. While that's best practice, the FM-80 should be tolerant of PV only connection. Was this in cold weather?

The panels are not easily accessible/rewireable, so they're going to stay in that 6S2P configuration, even though if I put it in 12S I could probably just use the PV inputs on my EG4 6500 inverter (min 90Vdc input). Since that's min 90Vdc, I believe my six panels in series will usually or often drop below 90Vdc, so I am pretty sure I can't reasonably use the PV inputs on my inverter.

Only in cases where available PV is very poor. Your panels should be optimal around 110V. The only time that won't be true is when there's not much light available.

I was looking at the EpEver systems, but it looks like they need fiddling, and for a couple hundred more I can get Victron which is evidently set it and forget it, which is more what I need, though I'd be happy to hear that I'm wrong so I can save a couple hundred bucks.

Epever seems to be fine. They are a little harder to program and may not be as flexible as one likes, but they're okay. They're not a Victron or an FM-80.

The problem I have is the product lineup for Victron has many options, and it's not particularly clear what the differences are.

For example, I see the BlueSolar MPPT 150/35, the SmartSolar MPPT 150/35, then I see the the SmartSolar "TR" controller, and it looks like there is also a BlueSolar Tr as well, but I can't tell if that's a different device.

Absolutely, positively don't consider that array on a 150V controller. I realize your climate is very mild, but does it never get to freezing? According to PVWatts, the weather data for San Fran registered 1°C nine times. That's too close for comfort for me. If your FM-80 popped in cold weather, I would conclude that's the reason over the simple battery disconnect - no battery, cold panels at peak voltage.

One of the differences seems to be over Bluetooth, and it looks like the "Blue"Solar does not have Bluetooth. Is that just a terrible coincidence that the "Blue"Solar is the one that does not have Bluetooth?

Is there any way to get a comparison chart of the different Victron MPPT options?

You're over thinking the shit out of it. You need:

1200W/48V = 25A controller, so a 35A is more than adequate.

Do you want bluetooth? Get the cheapest 150/35 smartsolar you can find. Some controllers have MC4 built in. Some have VE.CAN bus support for daisy chaining up to 25 MPPT to a single Cerbo, and they all have different designations.

HOWEVER, rather than risk subjecting any 150V MPPT to > 150Voc, I would simply run whatcha brung and connect the array to the EG4.

Alternatively, I'd look at a 200V controller. Victron jumps to 250V, but Midnite has a 200 (and a 150V with HyperVoC that I'd put your array on). IIRC, some Epever support 200V for 48V batteries.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

I loved the Epevers I had and have. Occasional bug especially in winter where they cut out repeatedly. It’s a software thing. They figure themselves overnight.

I’d also suggest using the aio.
FWIW I have as my backup system an aio. It’s typically turned off, just acting as one of my SCC’s, and I use a separate inverter and several other SCC’s in parallel.

Victron is painless and effortless once active and set up properly. Good stuff.
I went the other direction and have a couple Epevers and a pair of elcheapo PowrMR 60A. I’m actually totally impressed with the powrMR not because they are robust in programming options or whatever, but rather because they just work.
For $100 versus a $250 Epever? That they work without complaint or failure thus far lets me have redundancy for almost no significant cost.
The Epever is a bit better on efficiently harvesting the sun from my seat-of-the pants eval, however. But not so bigofa difference that I’d deep-six them.

But again: use your AIO and maybe buy a powrMR or two for peace of mind backup.

 

[daveola]

Only in cases where available PV is very poor. Your panels should be optimal around 110V. The only time that won't be true is when there's not much light available.

Doesn't that just mean that my panels don't charge in the morn/eve when the sun is less direct?

Or are the panels still going to be around 110V and just lower current?

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Or are the panels still going to be around 110V and just lower current?

Open circuit they’ll be open circuit. Under load (=SCC running) the voltage will pull down. Either way, the SCC is going to extract the maximum amps/volts the conditions will permit at any given time. Chasing the ‘ultimate efficiency’ is like chasing snowflakes trying to keep the driveway clear. It’s not going anywhere and you’re gonna mostly have what you’ve got.

 

[daveola]

Open circuit they’ll be open circuit. Under load (=SCC running) the voltage will pull down. Either way, the SCC is going to extract the maximum amps/volts the conditions will permit at any given time. Chasing the ‘ultimate efficiency’ is like chasing snowflakes trying to keep the driveway clear. It’s not going anywhere and you’re gonna mostly have what you’ve got.

I'm not worried about max efficiency - I'm worried that if they are under load and pulled down, then they'll go below the 90V minimum. It's been a long, long time since I looked at the outback when it was working, but I seem to recall it often being like only 70V in the morn/eve when charging. I can always connect it and see, since I guess it won't really break anything.

 

[WindWizard]

I had some Outback FM80's on my System. They worked great but when I looked at my log, sometimes the voltage would peak to over 150 volts. I knew that it was only a matter of time before I popped them, so I sold them and bought two Victrons. It was the best decision I ever made. They are quiet and do not have the noisy fans. They have bluetooth and I just cannot say enough about how much I love them. I got the 250/100 off of Ebay so they really did not cost that much more.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

they'll go below the 90V minimum

Outbark only works above 90V??!!!
I don’t know that equipment anyway.
My MPPSolar, Epevers, and elacheapomatic powrMR mppt units as well as the original windyNation pwm controller all work even if they can only ‘see’ enough to put in 10W at 12V nominal.

It seems odd to me that a unit would be unable to function in poor sunlight. Just after dawn this morning my MPPSolar kicked on doing 14-20W and a powrMR was doing 20-22W as the sun rose. It has never occurred to me to NOT expect that functionality.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Doesn't that just mean that my panels don't charge in the morn/eve when the sun is less direct?

Or are the panels still going to be around 110V and just lower current?

That. Panel peak output is always around Vmp within about 10%. Sample plot of power vs. voltage:



13.5V (81V) in low light, 15.5V (93V) in peak light. That ratio is .89, so your 110Vmp panels will operate around 98V in low light conditions.

Outbark only works above 90V??!!!

No. That's the EG4 with it's 500Voc PV limit.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

the EG4 with it's 500Voc PV limit

so your 110Vmp panels will operate around 98V in low light conditions

So basically it’s gonna work in answer to his question ?

 

[daveola]

Outbark only works above 90V??!!!
I don’t know that equipment anyway.

Just wanted to correct this so nobody reading this in the future thinks that this was stated. This isn't the stats for the Outback (which is fried), this is for my EG4 6500 inverter, which has a PV voltage range of 90V to something like 500V, so it's meant for much larger PV systems.

 

[daveola]

That. Panel peak output is always around Vmp within about 10%. Sample plot of power vs. voltage:

Fantastic - just looked up the Vmp for my panels, it's 18.3V, so that means it'll go down to 98V or so, and that will work.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Murphyslaww]

My Epever 8415AN was pretty set and forget once I got my, relatively simple, custom settings set for LiFePO4. It's really no different than how you would set any other vendors. With Epever's phone and cloud monitoring, you can easily spend half what you will on the Victron's.