Schneider InsightHome backwards compatibilty with XW+, Not So Much

[BentleyJ]

I'm so disappointed in the InsightHome, I've resisted the urge to make this into a rant, so here are the sad facts with limited commentary.

Background: ComBox had some kind of malfunction and would not accept the login password which has been the same for 5 years. Got lucky and was able to reset to factory and get it working again but for how long? Purchased an InsightHome device from SS. They had a good price and a Black Friday savings coupon.

The following seems to be true for Firmware 1.14 & 1.17. Although I probably didn't specifically note each item in the list for both versions.

1) Dashboard flow diagram missing Battery values: Temp, Amps & Pwr values. Shows Volts only. Battery symbol and connection line to inverter grayed out unless there is current flowing above some threshold value greater than 0.4A. Makes one think there is something wrong with the battery connection when there isn't. There is no need to gray out the symbols when idle, thats what the moving, directional bars, or lack of, are supposed to indicate.

2) Temp value does show up in the Devices>Status list but not on the dashboard or battey detail graphic.

3) Voltage scale on the Battery Summary graphic is so course (Range of 0 to 60V) its useless. ComBox is much better showing individual 0.1V steps. They also changed the colors of the graphic lines. Amps used to be Red now Green.

4) Aux Relay: Inverter Status page no longer has any information regarding the state of the Aux relay. ComBox does. Also, in the configuration menu for Aux Output Control The choices are Manual On, Manual Off & Automatic. The chosen selection is NOT displayed after applying & exiting that menu item and returning later. Fortunately it is indeed in automatic mode and is working.

5) Inverter status page has inconsistent nomenclature. Under Charger Status it will display Float, Absorption Etc but when Idle, shows as Disabled regardless of the actual Charger Enabled Status which is a separate item lower in the list. Very confusing.

6) Idiodic grouping of control sliders. Under Configuration>Controls there is a Grid Sell & Charger Enable/Disable but the Peak Load Shave and Grid Support slider are both in the Configuration>Grid Energy Management section. WTH?? Either put them all in the Controls section or separate out the Charger and 3 Grid support sliders and put them in their respective Configuration sections.

7) Maximum Discharge Current is now in units of Amps, as it should be, but the ComBox is in % (% of what, I never understood, I just set it to 100) So with InsightHome the value of 100 gets pushed into that register severely limiting inverter operation for anyone who missed that detail and didn't correct it.

8) Saved the best for last: THERE IS NO FLOAT AMPS SETTING IN ANY OF THE INSIGHT CONFIGURATION MENUS. REALLY?? (Yes, 3 stage charging is selected) Fortunately its already set at 10A where I want it but what happens if the ComBox and SCP both fail in the future. There is no access to this value without having to deal with ModBus.

9) InsightCloud was easy enough to set up but the Power Flow Diagram was initially all Gray with no info. Guess it takes a while for Schneider servers to update. Today as soon as I logged in, the power flow diagram was active. Although it has the same issue with low current Float amps, just ignores anything in the 0.5A and the battery graphic goes gray although the numeric values around 35W are displayed and do update and change if watched for a while.

There is just no excuse for this level of incompetence. A company the size of Schneider doesn't have a Project Manager or QC Manager specifically dedicated to Solar products? Hard to even begin to understand how this could happen.

 

[hwy17]

I saw a comment the other day to the effect of combox's might be saved by replacing the SD card. And they will overwrite and move into any other SD card placed into them.

 

[400bird]

The vast majority of those "issues" sound like whining because they changed things.

I don't care to see battery temp on the dashboard. This was probably done purposefully to clean up the dashboard.

#7 Changing the charge from percentage of max (140a) to straight amps sure does sound like an improvement.

#8 could be a real issue for lead acid installations, but I've never gone looking for that as I don't have any thoughts.

 

[BentleyJ]

The vast majority of those "issues" sound like whining because they changed things.

True, some whining is involved. However, the loss of that much data and functionality combined with such a lack of a unified, coherent, dashboard and user menu with consistent terminology goes well beyond just random customer complaining.

 

[400bird]

I've always had an Insight with somewhat current firmware. I'll bet these changes happened slowly over the course of different updates.

Anyways, have you tried to recover th gateway as mentioned here?
Post in thread 'conext gateway online but inaccessible' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/conext-gateway-online-but-inaccessible.69485/post-925796

 

[BentleyJ]

The ComBox is still working for the time being, I was able to recover by doing a factory reset, using the default password and then changing the password to what it was before. It got a little worried that the ComBox was going to fail soon so preemptively purchased InsightHome.
I suppose I'll replace the XW+ with a Pro one of these days, should solve many of the issues. Hoping to find a deal on fairly new, used one.

 

[MisterSandals]

such a lack of a unified, coherent, dashboard and user menu with consistent terminology goes well beyond just random customer complaining.

This is exactly how i feel about InsightHome configuration randomness. What makes it worse for me with an SW4048 is that the manuals show SCP screenshots and descriptions.
What helped was reading the SCP manual that actually had a logical arrangement of the controls...this is ludicrous of course.

I suppose I'll replace the XW+ with a Pro one of these days, should solve many of the issues. Hoping to find a deal on fairly new, used one.

I don't think it is a backwards compatibility issue at all, rather the poor user interface of the InsightHome sitting on top of poorly thought out controls. I am seeing what you are seeing with latest hardware and firmware.

 

[n2aws]

I'm so disappointed in the InsightHome, I've resisted the urge to make this into a rant, so here are the sad facts with limited commentary.

Background: ComBox had some kind of malfunction and would not accept the login password which has been the same for 5 years. Got lucky and was able to reset to factory and get it working again but for how long? Purchased an InsightHome device from SS. They had a good price and a Black Friday savings coupon.

The following seems to be true for Firmware 1.14 & 1.17. Although I probably didn't specifically note each item in the list for both versions.

1) Dashboard flow diagram missing Battery values: Temp, Amps & Pwr values. Shows Volts only. Battery symbol and connection line to inverter grayed out unless there is current flowing above some threshold value greater than 0.4A. Makes one think there is something wrong with the battery connection when there isn't. There is no need to gray out the symbols when idle, thats what the moving, directional bars, or lack of, are supposed to indicate.

Personally, I like the uncluttered dashboard. If I want to see temperature and various other things, I can see them in the device status page. But for an overview dashboard, I just want a general sense of what the system is doing, and if there are any alerts. I personally think they've accomplished that. Though, I can respect other opinions.

The 0.4a not reporting is more likely an aspect of your BMS. When I was using AGM, it'd show me when "0.1" (kw) was flowing. which at 54v divided by 6 batteries.. would be roughly 0.3amps. However I do know that depending on firmware with my Lifepower4's, the BMS doesn't communicate current to the inverter unless it's at something like 0.6a or in later firmwares, less.

2) Temp value does show up in the Devices>Status list but not on the dashboard or battey detail graphic.

This was mentioned in #1, so my comments apply here too.

3) Voltage scale on the Battery Summary graphic is so course (Range of 0 to 60V) its useless. ComBox is much better showing individual 0.1V steps. They also changed the colors of the graphic lines. Amps used to be Red now Green.

Fair point

4) Aux Relay: Inverter Status page no longer has any information regarding the state of the Aux relay. ComBox does. Also, in the configuration menu for Aux Output Control The choices are Manual On, Manual Off & Automatic. The chosen selection is NOT displayed after applying & exiting that menu item and returning later. Fortunately it is indeed in automatic mode and is working.

I'm not sure what specifically you mean by aux relay, but in v1.18b41, in the inverter status page, I see an "External Contactor" status displayed. Admittedly, I don't use it so I've never paid attention to it to see if it was in previous firmwares.

5) Inverter status page has inconsistent nomenclature. Under Charger Status it will display Float, Absorption Etc but when Idle, shows as Disabled regardless of the actual Charger Enabled Status which is a separate item lower in the list. Very confusing.

6) Idiodic grouping of control sliders. Under Configuration>Controls there is a Grid Sell & Charger Enable/Disable but the Peak Load Shave and Grid Support slider are both in the Configuration>Grid Energy Management section. WTH?? Either put them all in the Controls section or separate out the Charger and 3 Grid support sliders and put them in their respective Configuration sections.

I think this is probably more of a subjective opinion. I think the layout makes sense when you view things as a whole. the "Controls" menu is overall functionality. either things are on or off, etc. But if you want to configure the *details* of those things, that lives in the other menues (ie, grid support voltages, SOC, peak load shave stuff, etc. ie, from controls you can change the overall functionality of the system, but you can finetune it in the actual settings pages. This is likely a matter of personal preference (as are most of these things)

7) Maximum Discharge Current is now in units of Amps, as it should be, but the ComBox is in % (% of what, I never understood, I just set it to 100) So with InsightHome the value of 100 gets pushed into that register severely limiting inverter operation for anyone who missed that detail and didn't correct it.

I guess I'm confused here. So, help me understand?
It sounds like you are saying the combox had it as a percentage, but you never knew what the percentage value actually meant or indicated.. but, you don't like that they've changed it to something absolute (amps)? If I'm misunderstanding, I'm happy to hear the clarification. But, if thats what you are actually saying.. I dunno, this sounds a bit nitpicky, and I think the change may be beneficial in understanding what your system is actually supposed to be doing?

8) Saved the best for last: THERE IS NO FLOAT AMPS SETTING IN ANY OF THE INSIGHT CONFIGURATION MENUS. REALLY?? (Yes, 3 stage charging is selected) Fortunately its already set at 10A where I want it but what happens if the ComBox and SCP both fail in the future. There is no access to this value without having to deal with ModBus.

I dunno, I'm looking at insightlocal (again, 1.18b41) and it looks like the last entry in this screenshot?

9) InsightCloud was easy enough to set up but the Power Flow Diagram was initially all Gray with no info. Guess it takes a while for Schneider servers to update. Today as soon as I logged in, the power flow diagram was active. Although it has the same issue with low current Float amps, just ignores anything in the 0.5A and the battery graphic goes gray although the numeric values around 35W are displayed and do update and change if watched for a while.

I feel like this is a duplicate of #1, talking about the current flow amps.

There is just no excuse for this level of incompetence. A company the size of Schneider doesn't have a Project Manager or QC Manager specifically dedicated to Solar products? Hard to even begin to understand how this could happen.

I'm 100% with you. the Schneider hardware is amazeballs. But the firmware is limited and functionally outdated. but IMO, none of your points addressed the actual shortcomings of the firmware versus modern use-cases (things like multiple time-of-user windows, and other assorted limitations) that any modern AiO hybrid inverter handles right out of the box.

However, I honestly wouldn't hold my breath for improvements to most of these things for a couple of reasons.

#1) most of your points are mostly preference/opinion. Which is fine, but I'm assuming Schnieders team has different preferences.
#2) Schnieder historically hasn't given the conext ecosystem the white-glove treatment. Which is a shame. They bouught a profitable company, and are essentially just doing enough to keep the lights on with that arm of the company.
#3) They've announced a new line of solar inverters and products that will be coming to market, so my guess is that new lineup will get all the flashy new bells and whistles. Unless it's all backwards comaptible with the insight platform, I doubt we'll see much in the way of innotion coming up.

I hope I'm wrong about #3, but judging from history.. I'm not holding my breath.

For all of the above though, keep in mind I have the XW pro, not the XW+, so some things may be different.. but I suspect that my responses would mostly hold true with either one.

 

[BentleyJ]

Personally, I like the uncluttered dashboard. If I want to see temperature and various other things, I can see them in the device status page.

Thanks for the thorough reply, need to make a couple of clarifications.
Nothing wrong with uncluttered. I was specifically discussing the XW+, not the pro and I stand by my earlier comments with regard to A BUNCH of information is simply lost and the available menus are abbreviated compared to the Pro including the device status page.

Regarding the " Relay" I was referring to the Aux EDIT: 12V relay built into the Inverter, status page on InsightHome has no mention of its condition or state, open or closed. External contactor is totally different and is related to multi-unit configurations where the individual internal transfer relays are disabled in favor of a single larger external contactor. If this feature is enabled I have no idea if its staus gets reported. If not, add this to the list of issues.

The 0.4a not reporting is more likely an aspect of your BMS.

I do not have compatible BMS, I was referring to the reading coming from the XW+ itself. The ComBox reports currents down to at least 0.3A. Here again, this is not a personal preference issue, its lost data that exists in the inverter but is not reported by InsightHome.

I think this is probably more of a subjective opinion. I think the layout makes sense when you view things as a whole. the "Controls" menu is overall functionality. either things are on or off, etc. But if you want to configure the *details* of those things, that lives in the other menues (ie, grid support voltages, SOC, peak load shave stuff, etc. ie, from controls you can change the overall functionality of the system, but you can finetune it in the actual settings pages. This is likely a matter of personal preference (as are most of these things)

Ok, so maybe this is a preference issue but I still think its confusing and deserves improvement.

It sounds like you are saying the combox had it as a percentage, but you never knew what the percentage value actually meant or indicated.. but, you don't like that they've changed it to something absolute (amps)?

In the OP I said, the ComBox uses % and the InsightHome has changed to Amps, "as it should be". Amps is absolutely an improvement. I was just mentioning that when the % value gets pushed into InsightHome there is no conversion it simply becomes Amps so one has to correct that or the output is going to be severely limited.

I dunno, I'm looking at insightlocal (again, 1.18b41) and it looks like the last entry in this screenshot?

The Pro does have a Float amps setting, with the XW+ that is inexplicably absent.

I'm 100% with you. But the firmware is limited and functionally outdated. but IMO, none of your points addressed the actual shortcomings of the firmware versus modern use-cases (things like multiple time-of-user windows, and other assorted limitations) that any modern AiO hybrid inverter handles right out of the box.

Absolutely true, especially not having at least 2 TOU time windows. However, my post was not about these long term, ongoing issues, was only about the pathetic backwards compatibility of the XW+ to InsightHome compared to the ComBox.

Done venting, thanks

 

[n2aws]

Absolutely true, especially not having at least 2 TOU time windows. However, my post was not about these long term, ongoing issues, was only about the pathetic backwards compatibility of the XW+ to InsightHome compared to the ComBox.

Gotcha!

Honestly, I didn't realize there were so many differences in the settings, options, and displayed metrics between the XW_ and the XW pro.
Until just now, I thought the main difference between the two units, was the amount of NVRAM available for flashing larger firmwares (the XW+ had limited nvram, so all of the custom "region" profiles, were problematic because the firmwares were getting to be physically too large for the memory the unit had available.

Actually, I wonder if that explains the functional disparities.. since the inverters must comply with local laws to be approved for use (legally), the region codes aren't really "optional".. so, I wonder if they dropped support for some features you mentioned to clear up room for the region settings.