Schneider InsightHome bug?

[MisterSandals]

I recently commissioned my SW4048 and was setting up with InsightHome. It is connected to grid on AC In and have a sub panel on AC out. 300Ah 48V battery from cells with JBD BMS.

I found that setting inverter mode from split phase master to split phase stand alone appears to work on InsightLocal website but when refreshing setting (green circle/arrow) on top of device config, it retrieves inverter settings showing split phase master.
This was with Sw4048 firmware: 3.12.00bn1. (Latest)
InsightHome 1.17-BN79. (Prev attempt to load 1.18-BN33 failed to install)

I contacted Schneider they sent me InsightHome 1.18-BN41
This removed the works “Master” and “Slave” (racist?) and replaced with “Primary” and “Secondary” but the issue persists where split phase primary cannot be changed (other than in interface shown) to split phase stand alone.

Downloading Device Config Log confirms that inverter mode not changed from primary.

Anybody else confirm this?

I looked at quite a few threads and see a lot of people (unknowingly?) running a single inverter as split phase primary as seen in screenshots.

Schneider has stopped recommending/supporting stacked SW units. I am not sure what happens inside with this misconfiguration. I am waiting to hear back as they try to reproduce and hopefully find workaround.

Would like to hear if others are seeing this.

 

[hwy17]

Have you found any reason suspect there is a functional difference between Split Phase Master and Split Phase Standalone?

I have fought this one before, I believe it involved applying firmware updates (same version) in order to get the Split Phase Primary setting to stick.

In the end I decided I don't think it makes a difference, and leaving them in Master works just fine for standalone operation.

Related thread here. I was also fighting getting mine out of 3 phase mode:

Does a Schneider Conext XW need battery power to turn on?

Try resetting the Device Name and Number to something like HomeInverter & 5. Then do the full factory reset and see if those values change back to XW6848-01 & 0. You could use any of the settings really but then you have to go to the appendix and look up the default values and all that.

diysolarforum.com

 

[MisterSandals]

Do you suspect there is a functional difference between Split Phase Master and Split Phase Standalone?

I do because when I asked them this exact question they seemed to not know but were troubled by it. I asked if I should just run as primary and they would not say it was ok.
Right now I have all 3 lights flashing but am running with grid current only (battery voltage below AC support voltage).

One other oddity in the Events, it looks like it is expecting 24V battery??? (48V SW4048)

 

[hwy17]

One other oddity in the Events, it looks like it is expecting 24V battery??? (48V SW4048)

Iirc this is an SW bug and it's just the description, the error will still fire on 48/configured settings.

 

[MisterSandals]

Iirc this is an SW bug and it's just the description, the error will still fire on 48/configured settings.

Do you mean that there is a real battery over voltage fault but the error incorrectly says 20-31V?

My battery has been at about 52.8V and not charging all last night. I have no reason to suspect battery voltage got any higher for any reason.

 

[hwy17]

Do you mean that there is a real battery over voltage fault but the error incorrectly says 20-31V?

That is my suspicion. Check your HBCO setting in battery configuration menu. Might need advanced view. Not 100% sure HBCO is always settable or is predefined in some modes, can't remember it clearly.

 

[hwy17]

I checked now and my HBCO is only configurable down to 58v, so yeah if yours is the same and is well above 52v then bit of a mystery there.

 

[MisterSandals]

Check your HBCO setting in battery configuration menu.

I recall the HBCO was 68V by default so i had it set it down to 58V or something.
There was no reason to believe that the voltage was anywhere above 53V and it was before my AC Coupled micros would have started producing (much?) as it was just starting to get light out and my panels are hours from being in the sun (trees in the east). Batteries were 52.9V at midnight and now at 52.8V as they have been all morning. Power went out mysteriously around 7:30am (not sure if before or after the over volt Event log unfortunately).

I reverted to factory settings as others have said this was the only thing that got them going.
I have it at 60V. Should i set it back to 68V? My BMS will kick out long before then (57-ish) so maybe i don't need the protection here?

 

[hwy17]

It's giving me Deja Vu. I think we had another user on here with a 4048 also getting error 49 and that's where I learned that the 24v description is assumed to be a bug.

Fault F49 on an XW6848? | Schneider Electric USA

This FAQ says error 49 can also fire on the battery being disconnected while the inverter is powered. Do you think your BMS could have cutoff for low temp or something?

 

[hwy17]

Oh and on getting into Standalone. If you haven't yet, go to Controls > Operating Mode > Standby and then try to change the multi unit config while it's in standby.

I checked and I am indeed running in standalone mode now, and it won't let me change the mode to Master while it's operating.

 

[MisterSandals]

This FAQ says error 49 can also fire on the battery being disconnected while the inverter is powered. Do you think your BMS could have cutoff for low temp or something?

Ding ding ding!
BMS says i had 4 overcurrent events. Its a brand new BMS and it was set at 32A (maybe i did this on the test bench?).

This makes a LOT of sense. There was 32s delay which correlates to other observations.

I set the charge and discharge overcurrent to 100A.

Thanks! Its obvious if you spot it but i was not thinking battery or BMS.

 

[MisterSandals]

Oh and on getting into Standalone. If you haven't yet, go to Controls > Operating Mode > Standby and then try to change the multi unit config while it's in standby.

I checked and I am indeed running in standalone mode now, and it won't let me change the mode to Master while it's operating.

Yes, i've been going to Standby and confirm it does not change the actual inverter.

If you go to InsightHome, click on your inverter, then the "About" tab. On the bottom there is "Device Config Log". Download this file and open with a browser. Do you see "Master" or "Stand Alone"?

No matter what i try, i cannot change this from Split Phase Primary (formerly Master).

 

[MisterSandals]

Schneider confirmed that the Primary/Master vs Stand Alone settings with a single inverter does the same thing:

>>
I have tried to take a look a close look at provided, screen-print, however we would like to inform you that the the splitPhase stand alone and primary Both doing the same job.

It does not matter even though you select the split phase or Primary.
>>

Hopefully all good to go now. Thanks @hwy17, you were a great help in getting me to the real issue and off the red herring.

 

[hwy17]

Yes, i've been going to Standby and confirm it does not change the actual inverter.

If you go to InsightHome, click on your inverter, then the "About" tab. On the bottom there is "Device Config Log". Download this file and open with a browser. Do you see "Master" or "Stand Alone"?

No matter what i try, i cannot change this from Split Phase Primary (formerly Master).


View attachment 183145

When I download that log I do not find either value in it. Maybe because I have reset my Insight since fighting this, and this log is a log of configuration changes made with the insight? I'd have to look at it further.

I definitely had the same experience though of the Insight interface registering the change as though it worked, and then device refresh would reveal it had not. I just never got a clear understanding of how I eventually got passed it. I can refresh now and it's in standalone for sure. I know there was repeated flashing of the same firmware version and many attempts at reseting involved. Careful though, I have also nearly bricked mine by giving it the repeated firmware update treatment.

 

[jtvt]

Schneider has stopped recommending/supporting stacked SW units. I am not sure what happens inside with this misconfiguration.

Magic smoke. They end up in some weird state where one unit feeds the other in a cycle. For me, it was always when using the generator so probably same thing when on grid. IIRC seemed to be a race condition unsolvable by software. Here's what it sounds like

I went through a bunch (like 6 or 7) of them a long time ago until Schneider eventually replaced the entire SW system with XW hardware. Probably the same problem still exists.

 

[hwy17]

Magic smoke. They end up in some weird state where one unit feeds the other in a cycle. For me, it was always when using the generator so probably same thing when on grid. IIRC seemed to be a race condition unsolvable by software. Here's what it sounds like

I went through a bunch (like 6 or 7) of them a long time ago until Schneider eventually replaced the entire SW system with XW hardware. Probably the same problem still exists.

Great audio there of two inverters fighting. Maybe that's what our IBR heavy grid will sound like soon.

 

[MisterSandals]

When I download that log I do not find either value in it.

You need to make sure you select your inverter and then the About otherwise you get the InsightHome log file. Another user interface mess.

 

[hwy17]

You need to make sure you select your inverter and then the About otherwise you get the InsightHome log file. Another user interface mess.

Ahhh, got it. Mine is in standalone there too. But my experience is I agree with Schneider. Makes no difference.

 

[cstar707]

Yeah unfortunately Schneider would not replace my SW units with XW units and I had to sell them independently and buy something different.. do not use them in stacked config they will blow up.. even though the manual shipped with he unit says it will work they did an amendment to a year ago issuing a memo for that and never also updated their dealers.

 

[JDFEARL]

Mine wont upgrade to 1.18 at all. It fails every time I try so i will leave it alone. I run my 2 sw 4024 separate critical load panels. So they don't blow up. I wish I could stack them but I don't dare try for fear I will destroy them