shed solar

[ThurtyMinutes]

I have $6-7k to spend on solar for the shed. I have a male roommate that can do it, but with limited time available and knowledge of how to. It needs to power continuously a 115v 4.5 refrigerator [couldn't find the watts], and either a 1500 watt fan heater, or a/c 115v, can't find the watts. Normal lights, various small items, glue gun, mixer, toaster oven. I've watched Will's vids. Last one watched is the eg4 18v or the smaller one. I've been to his site. I have his book.
I'm still clueless.
as an aside, I'd like a solar something to power the well pump. Can anyone tell me what to buy? Or give suggestions?

 

[Rednecktek]

Blurb time!

Well, I'll start the default answer to these questions and we can work from there. Here's you To-Do list:

1: Power audit! This will give you some important information on how big your inverter needs to be as well as how much battery capacity you'll need. There is a link in the FAQ section (I think, or someone here will post it shortly) so fill in the blanks and see what it comes up with. You'll probably need some sort of Kill-A-Watt to get accurate measurements. Are you going to be running a 12v system? 24v system? 48v system? What are the specs on your solar panels? VoC? Vmp? Being as this is a new build, throw together a wish list of what you want and estimate on the high side.

1a: Where do you live? Speccing out a system for Scotland is a LOT different numbers than Arizona due to the amount of light you actually get. Someone here can post the link to the PVwatts.com or JCR Solar Uber-Sun-Hours calculator sites to help figure out how much you'll have to work with. That will be a box in the Power Audit form.

2: Parts list: You don't need a make & model list, just a parts list to start from for reference. You'll need an inverter, a MPPT charge controller, fuses, shunt, buck converter, batteries, wire, etc. Once you have a basic list it can be fine tuned to make & models after that. If you're looking at the All-In-Ones check for correct voltage outputs (120v or 240v Split Phase for North America, 220v Single Phase for European type areas) and make sure it has enough capacity for a little bit of growth and fudge factor.

3: Budget!: Steak is great but doesn't mean anything if your wallet says hamburger. Figure out what you're able to spend now vs what you'll have to cheap out on now and upgrade later.

4: Tape measure! Figure out where you're going to stick all the stuff you'll need. A dozen 3000AH batteries sounds great until you're sleeping on the floor because there's no room left for a bed. Is there a compartment that can house all this stuff? Will the server rack batteries fit? Are you going to have to make space? Physics can be pretty unforgiving.

5: Pencil out what you think you need and throw it at us so we can tell you what you've missed (because we ALL miss stuff the first go-round ) and help figure out which parts and pieces you're going to want to get.

Well that's the thing about solar systems, there is no 1-Size-Fits-All answer. Your system will need to be designed to fit YOUR needs. When you design and built the system, it's not going to be the perfect system for me, or Will or 12vInstall or anyone else, but it Will be the right system for You and that's the goal.

As for where to get started, let me throw my standard blurb in here to help point you in the right direction. There's going to be a lot of math and research involved, but that's going to be a LOT cheaper than just buying parts off of someone's list and finding out that it doesn't do what you need.

Don't panic on the Power Audit, you'll actually be doing that a few times. When you do the first pass put in ALL the Things that you might want. AirCon? Sure. Jacuzzi? Why not. MargaritaMaster-9000? Go for it.

The second pass will be the "I Absolutely Need This To Survive" list that isn't going to have much on there.

The third pass will be the "This is what is realistic" audit that you'll use to design the rest of the system.

The Power Audit is going to tell you 3 primary things: 1: How big does your inverter need to be to power your loads? 2: How much battery bank do you need to last $N number of days with krappy weather? and 3: How much solar panel will I need to install to refill those batteries in a 4 hour day (the average usable sun hours rule-of-thumb).

Once you know what you Want and what you Need and what your budget can Afford there will be somewhere in that Venn diagram where those three things meet.

After that, THEN you can start looking at parts.

Yes, it's a long drawn out process, but it's worth it in the end. Not every house has the exact same floorplan, not every vehicle is the same make & model, and not every solar system is designed the same.

 

[Rednecktek]

I have $6-7k to spend on solar for the shed.

May be possible with careful planning. If you're not doing grid tie and don't need to get it electrically inspected then the top 2 places to save money are getting used panels and DIY'ing your battery. The batteries are going to be the single largest expense and will eat up a HUGE part of the budget.

I have a male roommate that can do it, but with limited time available and knowledge of how to.

Usually not too difficult if you're familiar with basic hand and power tools (saws, drills, etc)

It needs to power continuously a 115v 4.5 refrigerator [couldn't find the watts],

Grab a Kill-A-Watt from any hardware store and plug it in. Give it a week or so to track what the fridge actually uses and that'll get you figures to work with when you go to do the power audit.

and either a 1500 watt fan heater, or a/c 115v, can't find the watts.

Your bog standard electric heater is also 1500w so that's a wash. The general consensus on heating and off-grid is "Anything But Electric!" because a heater is such a high draw device. For rough numbers a regular wall heater will drain a standard 12v 100Ah LFP battery dead in about 45 minutes or a full size rackmount in about 3 hours with nothing else running. Other options you'll want to look at are inverter heat pumps (pretty power efficient but a fair part of the budget and still needs loads of capacity) or (my favorite) a Diesel Heater which runs on 12v and diesel and only draws about 40w at full tilt.

Normal lights, various small items, glue gun, mixer, toaster oven.

The toaster oven is another high draw device and often are near the same wattage as the electric heater listed above. Lights and glue guns and such aren't usually a huge deal though in the grand scheme of things.

I've watched Will's vids. Last one watched is the eg4 18v or the smaller one. I've been to his site. I have his book.
I'm still clueless.
as an aside, I'd like a solar something to power the well pump. Can anyone tell me what to buy? Or give suggestions?

Well pumps are yet another huge device needing a lot of startup amps to get going which calls for really large inverters depending on the well depth and motor size. If this is just for a work shed or the like the 12k is going to be a massively over sized piece of kit most likely.

Run through the power audit a few times to get a handle on what your system needs to be, that's going to cost almost nothing but time and really make a HUGE difference in the viability of the project.

 

[ThurtyMinutes]

Thank you RedNeckTek. I shall start doing all that.

The small fridge is still in the box. Will unbox and get kill-a-watt.

Just bought a 12g 200 ft but only 8amp extension cord, hopefully can power some stuff before it gets hot.

I live in middle Virginia. whenever the sun is out, it gets sun no matter the season.

Will build a shed for batteries, behind this shed.
Roommate DOES know some stuff about electric and of course power tools.

This is not tied to the power grid, I don't need permits. Zoned agriculture.

The well is 300ft deep, drilled, not bored. it's for the house.
In case the propane tank runs out of gas when power grid goes down, would like to be able to get water out.

I have a mr buddy heater, and the various heaters used when camping.
The shed will not be lived in 24/7, however when in it, it needs to be warm or cool.

asked the roomie, he says he'd like to do 24v or 48v, but this is a SHED and I'm not gonna put $15k in solar on a shed.

I have a predator gas generator that runs the a/c currently.
Have a goal zero yeti 1000 which is actually 1500.
Have renogy suitcase 2-100 panels.
have a pure sine inverter
have a goal zero 50w panel.

Going now to buy kill-a-watt.

 

[Rednecktek]

The biggest load in that whole setup is going to be that well pump. I know mine is only 205ft deep and draws 2200w after the startup load of about 8000w initially. You're going to need a really beefy inverter to feed that well pump.

There are 2 ways to tackle this:
1: install a 48v based 10-12kw 240v low frequency with a stack of batteries to provide enough amperage to feed it and enough panels to compensate for the high standby power requirements...

OR

2: Install a 48v based 3kw AIO inverter to feed your lights and outlets and such AND get a stand alone low frequency 240v inverter wired to feed the well pump. Run the 3kw for all your normal stuff and just turn on the big boy to run the well pump and shut it off when the tank is full. You don't need a huge array to feed most of your loads and just more time to recharge after the few minutes of well pump time.

One of those systems is much cheaper than the other...

 

[SolarSamAK]

Sorry I am late to this post,
Your solar shed, does this price include the shed? What is the size of the shed? Typically under 200 sqft and you do not need a permit. Will the shed be insulated? What is the roof angle and type? "A" frame or "one way?" Are you planning to heat/cool the shed year round? Be honest, are you living in this shed, even part time, like a tiny house? You speak of a solar well pump? Is this shed going to have running water or is the purely for the house. I am confused if you trying to power the house with the shed or just the shed.

My thoughts, you should be honest about your mission. You are kind of all over the place. Agree with the above, calculate your needed wattage. Define you purpose and needs for the energy you plan to generate. The size of the shed will help you pick a system, size up the roof. Hopefully it is facing south, that sqft that will limit the size of your array. You may also use the south facing walls of the shed. In the winter these panels will generate some power but in summer the angle is less than ideal. From there you can figure out the size of your inverter based on the array size and energy needs.

My thoughts, this solar shed will likely not be grid tied. Do not combine your solar shed with your home's power system as your home is grid dependent. Am I correct about this? Also electric heating is not efficient as mentioned above. Nor is it cheap. Maybe with a heat pump you could do it but the cost of using that in a shed would make no sense. Look into IR or Radiant heaters. They are the most efficient type of heat for the price you can work with.

Other thoughts, you have a Goal Zero which can be solar powered. Those suitcase solar panels are usually not the best. Why not max out solar production to the Goal Zero to start using panels on the roof of the solar shed. The Goal Zero may power the solar shed and you can add additional units or a bigger Solar Battery Inverter like a Delta Echo Flow or Bluetti as needed. If you plan to power your house with the solar shed while having a grid dependent home and plan to do so without a grid tie, I would advise against that. Maybe with more experience you may try that later on.

May I ask how you plan to mount the panels? Any idea how many?