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diy solar

Sinclair or MT Solar?

Zwy

Solar Wizard
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
5,858
Location
Timbuktu, IA
Many here know I already have one MT Solar mount for my array. The recent purchase of the 370W pallet of 31 panels requires another ground mount. I submitted what I wanted to Sinclair and Kyle passed it on to the engineers. I asked if I could pickup at their loading dock as they are only 7 hours from here which would save $2100 for shipping and he said yes. Cost would have been about $5200. I specified to Kyle I preferred 4 feet at full tilt of 60 degrees. He wasn't sure if it would pass engineering. I also wanted poles cemented in plus I could add cement above grade to get the ground clearance I wanted.

I also looked at MT Solar and prices have increased. It would have cost me about $12K for the mounts needed for 30 panels plus freight. The advantage to the MT Solar mount is I can have a much higher ground clearance from the bottom of the array. With MT Solar, 4 feet would be no problem with 8 inch SCH poles and a 65 degree tilt. Kyle even mentioned looking at MT Solar to get my desired ground clearance.

Over 3.5 weeks went by with no response from Sinclair on approval. I had sent Kyle another email a week prior with no response so I thought they just didn't want to talk to me anymore. I just happened to be on FB Marketplace one night and ran across a listing 3 hours away with 53 used panels, Enphase micro inverters and 4 MT Solar mounts in a 3x5 configuration for 3 mounts and a 2x5 for one mount. I contacted the seller about just the mount and he stated the system had been damaged by high wind. I figured the crank adjusters had broken which he said, yes, that was the weak point. I asked for a price for the mounts and what looked to be Ironridge mounting rails. He came back the next day with a price of $4k and I told him I'd be there in 2 days to pick it up.

When I arrived to pick up the mounts, he told me what had happened. He had a brand new system up that was completed a month prior. A tornado with 140 to 150 mph winds had come thru, hit the original array after ripping out 40 trees. The screws broke and the poles had bent over. He had replacement cost coverage and the original system cost $64K. The replacement was slightly larger and was $72K but was not an adjustable mount. The MT Solar mount is rated to 105 mph, I thought they held up well considering a tornado hit it.

I'll have to source replacement adjuster assemblies and make some changes to the layout. I figured up what this would have cost new and it was $24K. So I have a little leeway. Here is a photo of the I beams, frame and twenty two 17 foot long rails, the rest filled the whole back of the pickup.

MT Solar mounts #2.jpg

As I have more mount than I need, I'll probably add some more PV. These are 8 inch pole mounts and I can use 8 inch SCH40. My other mount was 6 inch SCH80, that gets costly. Currently checking prices and I found some 8 inch SCH40 at $735 per 21 foot stick. I'll add to this thread come spring summer when I begin install and document more of the install than my review of the original mount.

On the drive back, I swung by a town of about 40 people where I had passed thru a month before. I had seen this house with panels on the garage, nice little array.

Neighbor 1.jpg

The next house is this one, I think there is some type of neighborly competition going on. :ROFLMAO:


Neighbor 2.jpg


As for Sinclair, when I returned home there was an email from engineering with the final ground clearance of 3 feet 7 inches. They have yet to follow up, my guess is they really didn't want to sell me a mount. Stay tuned for followup, I already have an idea for replacement adjusters instead of the factory setup.
 
That's quite a story! How do you find these deals...no pics of damaged mounts??

Still 2 posts per mount like your existing, or ??
 
I think Sinclair has a system in place that doesn't really scale for added ground clearance. They make all the mount from raw coils of steel which is of a certain gauge and once you get above the normal limits it starts adding time and money to deal with it. They are still the best deal around if you can deal with the ground clearance. Also the higher you start getting those panels off of ground level the more wind force they have so simply adding taller cement columns will reduce the wind load the array can handle. They still have advantage of having all the steel 100% galvanized and made in USA.
 
I think Sinclair has a system in place that doesn't really scale for added ground clearance. They make all the mount from raw coils of steel which is of a certain gauge and once you get above the normal limits it starts adding time and money to deal with it. They are still the best deal around if you can deal with the ground clearance. Also the higher you start getting those panels off of ground level the more wind force they have so simply adding taller cement columns will reduce the wind load the array can handle. They still have advantage of having all the steel 100% galvanized and made in USA.
Lol. I was just going to post exactly this - since Sinclair roll forms everything very probably from the SAME material thickness you are correct - they are not equipped to accommodate variances in ground clearance probably IRREGARDLESS of time/money...
 
That's quite a story! How do you find these deals...no pics of damaged mounts??

It was all taken down before he advertised it.

Only damage was the poles bent, the screw mechanism busted and a couple of the pieces of rectangular tubing have a slight bow in them which won't affect anything.

Only 2 panels suffered damage from what I saw. He still has the panels and micro inverters for sale. I didn't look close but considering it had 300W panels, the micro inverters are probably rated at 295W max.

How did I find this deal? Good question, just decided to look around on Marketplace for solar mounts that night after I hadn't heard a response from Sinclair for a week. I saw there was a 10Kw system with panels for sale from a seller who purchased a house and didn't want the system. Weird, I know. It's already in place and installed.


Still 2 posts per mount like your existing, or ??
These were 15 Tall mounts which are a single pole. Pretty high up for my taste. I'm combining 2 of these to hold 20 panels and then an 11 panel mount on a single pole. I went to MT Solar planning tool, inputted what I wanted and it spit out pole length, pole depth, pole size needed, pole spacing and even rail length. I did look at the 15 Tall mount, it would have required a hole about 15 feet deep. With a double pole 20 panel mount I only need 8.25 feet for pole depth.

I have the perfect spot for this and it works better with the MT mounts in landscape pattern instead of portrait like the Sinclair. The Sinclair would have been too long probably with a 20 panel mount in that location. The 20 panel mount will go at the pink rectangle near the rear of the property shown in this photo:

1705191194792.png

I explain more in this post from a few weeks ago. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/post-your-ground-mount-setup.68971/post-950632
 
I think Sinclair has a system in place that doesn't really scale for added ground clearance. They make all the mount from raw coils of steel which is of a certain gauge and once you get above the normal limits it starts adding time and money to deal with it. They are still the best deal around if you can deal with the ground clearance. Also the higher you start getting those panels off of ground level the more wind force they have so simply adding taller cement columns will reduce the wind load the array can handle. They still have advantage of having all the steel 100% galvanized and made in USA.
What is interesting is I see various members post photos of the Sinclair mounts with more than the standard 3 feet of ground clearance and with posts driven in, not cemented. Either the install wasn't approved by Sinclair or there is some leeway when it comes to ground clearance. Many lots have cross slope so that has to be taken into consideration. I seem to recall something about a certain grade that can't be exceeded.

For my front yard, Sinclair would be my first choice. But I also mentioned to my wife it would be harder to mow around a Sinclair mount compared to the MT Solar. In that respect, if the MT Solar cost a few thousand more, plus allowed for some extra ground clearance (1 foot), then it would be a simple choice- the MT Solar.
 
Lol. I was just going to post exactly this - since Sinclair roll forms everything very probably from the SAME material thickness you are correct - they are not equipped to accommodate variances in ground clearance probably IRREGARDLESS of time/money...
They actually came up with the 4'0" in the design. It is shown at the lower right corner of the pdf file uploaded below.

That blows that theory. :)

The problem was they were a few days short plus the MT Solar mount will probably fit in better with the location. The cost will be about the same for the 30 panels but with the MT Solar I will have material left over for probably a 10 or 12 panel array.
 

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  • Sinclair mount.pdf
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Also the higher you start getting those panels off of ground level the more wind force they have so simply adding taller cement columns will reduce the wind load the array can handle.
Add more columns is the answer. No different than any other solar mount out there, more vertical columns if height needs to be higher.
 
They actually came up with the 4'0" in the design. It is shown at the lower right corner of the pdf file uploaded below.
That actually is same material as mine since my C posts were also 144" and specced for 7ft below grade. The difference is is your panels are a lot shorter (mine are over 7ft long 480W panels), don't have a ~6" gap between top and bottom row (for snow, light to pass through), and max 55° tilt instead of 60°. So I can see in your case how you can get that extra clearance. I've so far been able to keep the panels well above snow level with only about 5" on ground so far.
 
That actually is same material as mine since my C posts were also 144" and specced for 7ft below grade. The difference is is your panels are a lot shorter (mine are over 7ft long 480W panels), don't have a ~6" gap between top and bottom row (for snow, light to pass through), and max 55° tilt instead of 60°. So I can see in your case how you can get that extra clearance. I've so far been able to keep the panels well above snow level with only about 5" on ground so far.
The max tilt on Sinclair seasonal tilt is 55° according to the website. I assume this is due to the length of the screw jack.

Yes, the 370W panels are 69L x 40W. With 5 rows in landscape with the MT mount it would be taller than the current array I have with 4 rows of 530W JA Solar which are 89.25L x 44.2W. The current mount catches the air but it is protected to the NW wind by the shed to the right of it. I also have some windbreak to the south. The location for the new mount will have high exposure to NW and south winds, I wanted it a foot lower and the array shorter . I will have to cut the rails down to length.
 
Interesting to see the price on a Sinclair mount, as I've been debating a Sinclair mount versus a Ready Rack mount, as both are local enough to pick up myself.
 
Interesting to see the price on a Sinclair mount, as I've been debating a Sinclair mount versus a Ready Rack mount, as both are local enough to pick up myself.
The 30 panel mount picked up at their dock was just under $5200. If Kyle had responded to my last email on how things were progressing, I'd be driving to Michigan at some point. I would never have looked on Marketplace.
 
They actually came up with the 4'0" in the design. It is shown at the lower right corner of the pdf file uploaded below.

That blows that theory. :)

The problem was they were a few days short plus the MT Solar mount will probably fit in better with the location. The cost will be about the same for the 30 panels but with the MT Solar I will have material left over for probably a 10 or 12 panel array.
That drawing doesn’t make any sense though.

In the material table the call out a 12’ post (144” c channel) first line. But they call out 7’ imbedded and 8’3” above ground. Thats a 15.25’ long post not 12’. Even with their optional 14’ driven post (the difference in the length gets driven) the above ground protrusion doesn’t change. They didnt make any adjustments to gain the 4’ clear to the low edge at 55° other than change the above ground dimension. And nothing else or any material.


And trust me I’d love to have 4’ above ground on the low end of might Sinclair array as well!
 
The 30 panel mount picked up at their dock was just under $5200. If Kyle had responded to my last email on how things were progressing, I'd be driving to Michigan at some point. I would never have looked on Marketplace.

Good to know. I think the biggest reason why I don't want to go Sinclair is, I don't have a way to drive them, and I don't want to deal with concrete them in. Ready Rack just seems easier to do as a DIYer
 
Good to know. I think the biggest reason why I don't want to go Sinclair is, I don't have a way to drive them, and I don't want to deal with concrete them in. Ready Rack just seems easier to do as a DIYer
There is a guy on YouTube who used a demolition hammer with custom made adapter to put on the posts to pound them in "by hand".
 
fyi, my 30 panel mount for 480W panels with season adjust jacks I purchased a year ago was $4200 without shipping.
 
There is a guy on YouTube who used a demolition hammer with custom made adapter to put on the posts to pound them in "by hand".

I've seen that, not sure I want to go down that route. I've got a 1 ton mini-excavator with a post hole auger attachment. Shouldn't be too hard to use that to put the Ready Rack ground screws in easily.
 
Good to know. I think the biggest reason why I don't want to go Sinclair is, I don't have a way to drive them, and I don't want to deal with concrete them in. Ready Rack just seems easier to do as a DIYer
I prefer concrete below the frost line. I see too many driven uprights on PV here that heave or sag. Soil here has clay. Many driven upright installations a few years old look like a roller coaster.

I've seen that, not sure I want to go down that route. I've got a 1 ton mini-excavator with a post hole auger attachment. Shouldn't be too hard to use that to put the Ready Rack ground screws in easily.
If you have the auger, it is a no contest to me, use concrete. My first install with the 36" diameter holes 8 feet deep with the 6" pole in the middle only took a few yards of concrete. With a 2 foot hole 8 feet deep it comes to 0.9 yards per hole. 4 posts would take less than 4 yards. I can't find a price on ground screws needed for a PV installation but if $50 each and takes twice the number of uprights it would be close to cost on concrete for half as many uprights.

One member related their experience with ground screws. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/ground-screws-for-a-ground-mount-anyone-use-them.38391/post-486055 Any rock/heavy clay and it can get difficult.
 
I prefer concrete below the frost line. I see too many driven uprights on PV here that heave or sag. Soil here has clay. Many driven upright installations a few years old look like a roller coaster.


If you have the auger, it is a no contest to me, use concrete. My first install with the 36" diameter holes 8 feet deep with the 6" pole in the middle only took a few yards of concrete. With a 2 foot hole 8 feet deep it comes to 0.9 yards per hole. 4 posts would take less than 4 yards. I can't find a price on ground screws needed for a PV installation but if $50 each and takes twice the number of uprights it would be close to cost on concrete for half as many uprights.

One member related their experience with ground screws. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/ground-screws-for-a-ground-mount-anyone-use-them.38391/post-486055 Any rock/heavy clay and it can get difficult.

I got a quote on a Ready Rack setup for 72 panels that was around $9500, for a ground screw mount. (granted I was thinking I'd be cheap with used SanTan panels. If I went the Ready Rack route, I'd be looking for the highest wattage panels I could find to keep mount cost down).

I don't want to deal with the size of concrete required for a Sinclair mount, as I only have a 16 inch auger. In the past, I've built some structures with posts in the ground and I typically have water problems once I have holes down about 3 ft, so I have my doubts on being able to put concrete down deep and have it actually set well, in a DIY install situation. I really need to talk to the code people locally and see what I need in terms of engineering on a ground mount, to see if there's another option I could go down.
 
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