So do both parrallel and serial configurations give "juice" that the solar charge controller can turn into power?

[Gueyog8a7]

Still wanting some clarification on how parallel increases your power. Does it still increase it, just less so than if the same panels were in series?

People have recommended to group them in parallel to overcome the voc limits of the scc. Could I do 4 of these parallel and 3 series to achieve the goal of 7 panels on the van under the 1 scc (tracer bn 4215)?

So does parallel still give power that the scc can convert it just gives it in more amperage rather than more wattage or is wattage still the same wattage, so 4 times 100w panels would still be 400w, but increase of amps instead of increase in volts?

I read that parallel gives lower total power than in series. I was also told that I could fit 5 in series for that scc to comfortable stay under the voc, accounting for cold weather voltage increases. As such is 4 parallel and 3 series going to give me more total power than 5 series? Also I guess I will have to buy thicker wires from panels to scc if doing parallel? I only bought 4mm squared at the time not thinking I would be wanting to scale up so soon. I have only seen 6mm squared max offered on solar sites will that be enough?

I might try 5 series first, since that will be easier to install and see if that is enough then I can upgrade to parallel and 7 if I still want more.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Really?

Please watch from start to finish. If you don't understand something, rewind:

 

[Tomthumb62]

If I understand you, you have the basic idea.

An MPPT charge controller can take what ever voltage and amperage you give it (as long as within the device’s limits) and figure out how to squeeze the most wattage out of it. It’s “converting” excess voltage into additional amps.

In a series configuration, the voltage will simply be higher. In parallel, the volts will be lower but amps higher.

More or less it works out often fairly similar in the end for the same number of panels, whether series or parallel or a combo. But doing the math to figure what would give you the best outcome is a good idea

It’s a lot more complicated than that, but I think you have the basic idea.

 

[Tomthumb62]

seem to recall mike recommending I could do 4 parallel and 3 series to achieve the goal of 7 panels

Don’t know who Mike is but that’s not possible. You can’t mix two different strings like that, they’re not compatible. The video that sunshine linked you is a good one to watch.

The only way you can install an uneven number of panels on a single MPPT is if they’re all in series.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

Don’t know who Mike is but that’s not possible. You can’t mix two different strings like that, they’re not compatible. The video that sunshine linked you is a good one to watch.

The only way you can install an uneven number of panels on a single MPPT is if they’re all in series.

Sorry he did not write that. I looked at his post again and I remembered it wrong so don't want to put that on him .

Oh right, so I could do 3 parallel x 3 parallel or the number has to be even too? No way to squeeze the 7th panel potentially to fill my van space real estate? Only with a second scc? Not worth that for one more panel.

Also what wire size mm squared am I looking at for such configuration if it is indeed acceptable?

I can research further now you have confirmed I have the general gist and on the right track but also asking here in the meantime.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Sorry he did not write that. I looked at his post again and I remembered it wrong so don't want to put that on him .

Oh right, so I could do 3 parallel x 3 parallel or the number has to be even too? No way to squeeze the 7th panel potentially to fill my van space real estate? Only with a second scc? Not worth that for one more panel.

Correct. You’d need a second SCC for just that one panel.

If you do 6P you’ll need to fuse each panel. Look at the “max fuse rating” on the back of the panel and MC4 inline fuses, one for each panel.

Also what wire size mm squared am I looking at for such configuration if it is indeed acceptable?

If you do 6P of 100W panels, you’re probably going to want 8-10mm^2 for the combined output.

However, you have the 4215 Tracer, which can handle up to 150V input. If you’re only using 100W panels, you can probably do 3S2P, which means you don’t need fuses and you can
use smaller wiring. And it would be cleaner looking than 6P with fewer wires. What is the Voc and Isc of the panels you’re planning on using?

2S3P is another option. This would give you 3 segments of panels. If one is shaded, the other two will still produce power. You need fuses here, too.

I can research further now you have confirmed I have the general gist and on the right track but also asking here in the meantime.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

Correct. You’d need a second SCC for just that one panel.

If you do 6P you’ll need to fuse each panel. Look at the “max fuse rating” on the back of the panel and MC4 inline fuses, one for each panel.


If you do 6P of 100W panels, you’re probably going to want 8-10mm^2 for the combined output.

However, you have the 4215 Tracer, which can handle up to 150V input. If you’re only using 100W panels, you can probably do 3S2P, which means you don’t need fuses and you can
use smaller wiring. And it would be cleaner looking than 6P with fewer wires. What is the Voc and Isc of the panels you’re planning on using?

2S3P is another option. This would give you 3 segments of panels. If one is shaded, the other two will still produce power. You need fuses here, too.

In my previous thread it was recommended I can do 5 in series so might as well just do that than messing with parallel at all then.

The information of the panels are there in the link on the OP if you scroll down the page.

 

[Tomthumb62]

In my previous thread it was recommended I can do 5 in series so might as well just do that than messing with parallel at all then.

The information of the panels are there in the link on the OP if you scroll down the page.

Doing 5 in series is simple and tidy, but you’ll be more at the mercy of shading. If 4 panels are in full sun and 5% of your 5th panel is shaded, then your entire array output plummets.

If you’re rarely near trees or around building or other things that cast much shade, then 5S could work great.

Personally I’d put up six panels since you have the room for it. Trust me, you’ll always want more panels! Then you can play with different configurations. 6P, 3S2P, 3P2S, 2S3P, 2P3S.

Either of the 2P variants wouldn’t need fuses.

Get some PV wire and an mc4 crimping kit and it’s pretty easy to make your own cables to the perfect length for a clean install.

 

[mikefitz]

Don’t know who Mike is but that’s not possible

That's me. I spent some time trying to help the OP with panel options and did not say he could use unequal strings.

The concept of hanging 5 or 6 100 watt flexible panels on the sides and top of a small mini van is an unusal approach.

The guy is new to all the problems that exist when you venture into 'van life'.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

Doing 5 in series is simple and tidy, but you’ll be more at the mercy of shading. If 4 panels are in full sun and 5% of your 5th panel is shaded, then your entire array output plummets.

If you’re rarely near trees or around building or other things that cast much shade, then 5S could work great.

Personally I’d put up six panels since you have the room for it. Trust me, you’ll always want more panels! Then you can play with different configurations. 6P, 3S2P, 3P2S, 2S3P, 2P3S.

Either of the 2P variants wouldn’t need fuses.

Get some PV wire and an mc4 crimping kit and it’s pretty easy to make your own cables to the perfect length for a clean install.

Well 5 seems the way to go first since I can see if it is sufficient rather than a hefty rejig of the whole wiring that parallels would entail.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

That's me. I spent some time trying to help the OP with panel options and did not say he could use unequal strings.

The concept of hanging 5 or 6 100 watt flexible panels on the sides and top of a small mini van is an unusal approach.

The guy is new to all the problems that exist when you venture into 'van life'.

Yes I edited to say I was at error there and you did not state that when I re-read your post.

 

[Rednecktek]

So just to help clear up some terminology hiccups, in the electrical world "power" has a very specific meaning and means "watts". So, when wondering about "power" from panels, I think you're a little confused from the weird nomenclature used.

As to the whole series VS parallel issue, there are pro's and cons either way, but you need to understand that the math is the same either way in the end.

Let's use an example Generik 100w panel with the following stats:
VoC 22v
Vmp 20v
Isc 5a

So, in use it would produce the Vmp (20v) times Isc (5a) to give you 100w (power). Now let's buy 10 panels because you found a great deal online for a bulk pack. In series, the voltage adds up but the amps stay the same. In parallel the amps go up but the voltage stays the same. When you split them up you get both. So, let's do a few example configurations for your 1000w array:

10 in series = 10*20v*5a = 200v * 5a = 1000w
10 in parallel = 10*5a*20v = 50a * 20v = 1000w
5s2p which is 5 in series on a string and 2 strings in parallel = (5 panels * 20v * 5a = 100v * 5a = 500w) *2 strings = 1000w
Likewise a 2s5p ends up the same way = (2 panels * 20v * 5a = 40v * 5a = 200w) * 5 strings = 1000w

Now, each has pro's and cons, so let's look at those real quick:

Parallel:
Pro's : Handles shading really well as 1 shaded panel leaves 9 panels still working fine since you have 10 strings of 1 panel each, extremely low chance of over-volting the PVInput rating of your controller.

Con's : While each wire from each panel is small, you'll need fuses for each string in parallel over 2 so 10 fuses, and because your amperage coming out of the array into your charge controller, you need a wire capable of carrying 50a which is pretty chonky wire.

Series:

Pro's : The wire size going to the controller only needs to be able to handle the 5a that the panels are putting out so small and cheap. No fuse needed for a single string.

Con's : Really good chance of over-volting your charge controller's PVInput rating and releasing the magic orange smoke, shade over one of the panels will nerf the power of the entire string to the lowest common factor which kills performance.

Series/Parallel (5s2p):

Pro's : More resistant to shade as if one panel is covered, it only nerfs the 4 it's in series with, the other string works perfectly fine. Because you're running higher voltages you can use thinner wire. No fuses needed with only 2 strings. Good for keeping under that PVInput voltage limit since your voltage is only 5 panels instead of 10.

Con's : If a panel is shaded, you lose about half your total potential as 1/2 of the panels are getting nerfed. A little thicker wire required as you've got double the amps going now.

Hopefully that helps make sense. As to whether your panels are all in series or all in parallel or some combination of the two, your final power output is going to be the same.

 

[Mattb4]

Don’t know who Mike is but that’s not possible. You can’t mix two different strings like that, they’re not compatible. The video that sunshine linked you is a good one to watch.

The only way you can install an uneven number of panels on a single MPPT is if they’re all in series.

It likely is best to avoid it but you can indeed have an uneven number of panels on a SCC with some in parallel and than in series. I am presently running a 200w panel in series with 2-100w panels wired in parallel, and than parallel to another 2-100w panels in series making for a total of 5 panels.

 

[Tomthumb62]

It likely is best to avoid it but you can indeed have an uneven number of panels on a SCC with some in parallel and than in series. I am presently running a 200w panel in series with 2-100w panels wired in parallel, and than parallel to another 2-100w panels in series making for a total of 5 panels.

Yeah, I know it is possible, but it’s likely going to confuse a beginner. And way too easy to get it wrong and have something bad happen. KISS, keep it simple student!