Sol-Ark 15K All in One Inverter Released.

[ChrisG]

That is correct, I have a Solis 5G HVES with a BYD Battery box.

The only operational compromise having the auto-transformer is that they make UPS like switch times not possible as the inductive load takes the inverter 80-100ms to adjust when switching from grid to the internal generation, so you sometimes get a blink on the lighting. I have small UPS in the home all the electronics to deal with that.

@Solar Guppy
I just looked into this Solis inverter/battery solution. Why isn’t this talked about more here? The 10kw inverter is cheap. The batteries aren’t as they are not 48v but the price of a 10kw inverter, 12kwh BYD battery, certified auto transformer is not a ton more than a Solark 12k.

 

[Quattrohead]

Thought auto-transformers had a bad rap

No they are fine as long as they are used properly.
A certain company with shouty people on here was dishing out bad information on how to use them, that's all.

 

[Solar Guppy]

@Solar Guppy
I just looked into this Solis inverter/battery solution. Why isn’t this talked about more here? The 10kw inverter is cheap. The batteries aren’t as they are not 48v but the price of a 10kw inverter, 12kwh BYD battery, certified auto transformer is not a ton more than a Solark 12k.

My belief is that the market that meets UL9540 standards is generally limited to professional installers. They are the ones that choose what their businesses will sell and expect full support from the manufactures for not just the products, but training, access to engineering and such as they are the ones that deal with and product shortcomings and warranty support.

Enphase is a great example of how to succeed. I don't have experience with Tesla, but these two are the top options for energy storage for the expanding ESS market to residential ( not offgrid ) market.

This is why Schneider, SMA and a few others are still the primary go to for off-grid systems. It takes a very deep knowledge base to design and install these systems to building codes that frankly relatively few businesses have the talent on hand.

The Chinese have a we will build it and they will come mentality, and the are very insulted if one suggests why there market share is none existent or products do work as required. As can be see every day on forums like this, products are pumped out, not fully tested and vetted and the only metric that matters is the sale.

On the Solis 5G, it is a solid product, not perfect, but none are. BYD is the single best option on Batteries, they are #3 in the world in production and are set to take over, even from Tesla in the EV market and are the only vertically integrated manufacture, that literally make everything from raw materials to the finished product. The newer Battery Box HVL is very competitive and BYD will actually be around if you need service in the warranty period of 10 years.

I suspect for most in a DYI forum, they will just dismiss the "high" costs of these UL9540 listed systems, but IMHO, they don't know, what they don't know and it is a false "savings". Codes, support and warranties matter, long after the purchase has been completed.

 

[Quattrohead]

@Solar Guppy
I just looked into this Solis inverter/battery solution. Why isn’t this talked about more here? The 10kw inverter is cheap. The batteries aren’t as they are not 48v but the price of a 10kw inverter, 12kwh BYD battery, certified auto transformer is not a ton more than a Solark 12k.

They look like good units, documentation is better than average.
They just need a ytube video with a happy smiling face and a cheaky "hey look it works, here are my affiliate links" to explode onto the market !!!

 

[Quattrohead]

Nailed it Solar Guppy.

 

[Solar Guppy]

They look like good units, documentation is better than average.
They just need a ytube video with a happy smiling face and a cheaky "hey look it works, here are my affiliate links" to explode onto the market !!!

I've thought about that, but I'm at heart a technologist, not a marketer, bummer seeing how much the host makes on make YT videos' with affiliate links

 

[ChrisG]

No they are fine as long as they are used properly.
A certain company with shouty people on here was dishing out bad information on how to use them, that's all.

@Quattrohead. I know the company your talking about. So for an auto-transformer they should be installed according to the diagram below(in between inverter and load center) vs being installed in parallel with inverter output and auto-transformer like other videos have done.

 

[Hedges]

@Quattrohead. I know the company your talking about. So for an auto-transformer they should be installed according to the diagram below(in between inverter and load center) vs being installed in parallel with inverter output and auto-transformer like other videos have done.

Not included in that diagram is circuit breaker and bonding of neutral to ground.
For an off-grid system of certain characteristics, it can easily be used.

Is the auto-transformer large enough to allow 100% of inverter output to be used on a single 120V phase? If not, people will be tempted to a circuit which has "lost neutral" failure modes. (auto-transformer in parallel not series as you mention.)
Will this be used with AC grid pass-through? The grounding of neutral raises some issues.

 

[ChrisG]

Not included in that diagram is circuit breaker and bonding of neutral to ground.
For an off-grid system of certain characteristics, it can easily be used.

Is the auto-transformer large enough to allow 100% of inverter output to be used on a single 120V phase? If not, people will be tempted to a circuit which has "lost neutral" failure modes. (auto-transformer in parallel not series as you mention.)
Will this be used with AC grid pass-through? The grounding of neutral raises some issues.

I’n not using it, just curious based previous comments in this thread but @Solar Guppy may be. Just think it would be good for everyone to know how an auto-transformer should be wired vs what others have done videos on.

 

[Hedges]

It can be made to work easily enough for off-grid. More complicated if grid input is also used.

Don't want a breaker to disconnect auto-transformer but leave 120V loads connected, so breaker disconnecting 120V loads panel and auto-transformer simultaneously should be safe.

If inverter is able to handle higher wattage of 240V loads, then separate 240V-only loads panel could be used.

This doesn't let you use additional 120V circuits in the case where 120V loads on two phases reduces load to what auto-transformer can handle. Victron addresses this with a breaker for about 30A on neutral that also trips 100A poles for L1 and L2.

Neutral needs to be bonded to ground. But if used for feed-through from grid, ground must connect through so faults to ground are cleared. The auto-transformer sends some "objectionable" current through ground. Victron addresses this with switching of neutral/ground bond.

Need a complete circuit with breakers and neutral/ground bonding shown. And caveats about what configurations (especially regarding grid) are or are not allowed.

 

[turbo6bar]

Each Sunny Island (transformer type) is 140 lbs and $5700 msrp. Retail street price about $4700, presently available liquidations about $3000.
Each Sunny Boy transformerless is 70 lbs and around $2000, maybe $1700.

Here's an attractive 2x Sunny Island bundle with matching enclosures of support electronics, $7400

MidNite Solar MNSI6048D-ACCPL Pre-Wired AC Couple System

Shop now for MidNite Solar MNSI6048D-ACCPL Pre-Wired AC Couple System.

www.stellavolta.com

Midnite Solar no longer lists these on their website. If $7400 is legit, it's a killer price. You'll have a tough time getting a pair of SI for under $6000 third party much less new through a distributor. I want to run an SMA setup (Germany vs China, transformer vs transformerless), but it's hard to overlook the full meal deal that Sol-Ark offers. The time to get into SMA was 2 years ago when you could get SI for well under $2000 each.

 

[Hedges]

Another forum member got one.

The modularity means that with addition of an auto-transformer, you could keep it working with one SI down. (also works with one SB down, of course.)

And expandability to 2x as large. (larger too, but only for 3-phase off-grid, not grid tied.)

SolArk offers expandability to large systems, also smaller ones available.

SMA's minimum system for the US market is larger and more expensive than SolArk's.
For 220V single phase European market, 1x SI and 1x SB works (without the auto transformer needed for US split-phase.)
SMA also has a new hybrid for 230/400Y. It looks like a Sunny Boy with both PV and battery inputs. That would fit the smaller system size and price-point well. But limited surge capability. Who knows when that would be offered in the US.

 

[Solar Guppy]

Not included in that diagram is circuit breaker and bonding of neutral to ground.
For an off-grid system of certain characteristics, it can easily be used.

Is the auto-transformer large enough to allow 100% of inverter output to be used on a single 120V phase? If not, people will be tempted to a circuit which has "lost neutral" failure modes. (auto-transformer in parallel not series as you mention.)
Will this be used with AC grid pass-through? The grounding of neutral raises some issues.

Here you go, also attached the user / install manual. In my system, I have a Square D split main panel, used typically where a generator OR lower bus powers the upper bus. It is a manual interlock, UL listed.

The bond is in this panel ( which is the only one in the home) . I leave the interlock in the position the Inverter always supplies the loads, as with any Main Panel, the neutral to ground bound is in this panel, and when grid is present, the auto-transformer is in parallel with the grid, not a concern as A) all current would flow to the lowest impedance and B) it has OCP via the input AND output of the inverter.

When grid fails, the inverter switches to the internal generation, and has the auto-transformer L1/L2 are disconnected from the grid. I also have only 240 loads on the lower, grid only connected split-bus. These are hot water, electric dryer, Electric Range/oven and the Garage and Porch min-splits. Everything else in the home is backed up and been running this way for 20 months with multiple power outage events.

The Solis Auto-Transformer is a beast, rated continuous duty for 6KW, its a huge toroidal transformer and is mounted to a large heat sink, never seen anything like it before. You can pull full rated power of the inverter from a single phase indefinitely.

Only wish the 5G Hybrid inverter was more than 6kw ( 7kw surge ) backup but I have replaced the heat pump with ducted mini-split to address that.

I also created a custom monitoring system using a mix of Grafana,python,sql,modbusTCP , the old Synology box on top does the polling of the inverter.

 

[ChrisG]

@Solar Guppy
Damn! So a Solis 10k inverter for $1500, auto-transformer for $500, BYD 12kwh battery for $7000. Let’s call it $10k you get a fully compliant UL9540 system (without PV of course). RSD built in obviously. That’s a deal it seems. Just hook it up to sub panel or that kick butt split panel (don’t think they sell any longer) and your done.

 

[Solar Guppy]

Yes, looks like the HOM and QO versions have been discontinued by Schneider Electric

Siemens G3042L1225GEN is similar to the Square D I installed and appears stock is available.

 

[Quattrohead]

@Quattrohead. I know the company your talking about. So for an auto-transformer they should be installed according to the diagram below(in between inverter and load center) vs being installed in parallel with inverter output and auto-transformer like other videos have done.

Dual pole CB on the output of the inverter L1 & L2 will save your bacon (and make sure your electronic devices do not fry like bacon nice and crispy !!!)

 

[Egl_81]

Up and running!

 

[12kw_2021]

Hello
I am installing a Square D 200A fusable cut off switch per solarks schematics between the main grid and my home. Can anyone suggest the correct fuses to install ? The D224NRB switch suggests using H, K or R fuses. I assume they should be 240V and 200A fuses, but I don't want to make assumptions. What fuse model/rating is recommended for the 15K install and downstream protection.

Thanks in advance

 

[kdub23]

Hello
I am installing a Square D 200A fusable cut off switch per solarks schematics between the main grid and my home. Can anyone suggest the correct fuses to install ? The D224NRB switch suggests using H, K or R fuses. I assume they should be 240V and 200A fuses, but I don't want to make assumptions. What fuse model/rating is recommended for the 15K install and downstream protection.

Thanks in advance

I also have the D224NRB. I went with 2x BUSSMANN FUSES NON-200 250V Class H. See here. (I'd look on ebay or Amazon though...)

 

[Hedges]

I also have the D224NRB. I went with 2x BUSSMANN FUSES NON-200 250V Class H. See here. (I'd look on ebay or Amazon though...)

"Non current limiting"

I suppose that is OK if you have a main breaker before it. I would prefer current-limiting regardless, but especially if there isn't a breaker before it.

Also no time-delay, I think a single-element fuse.
1500 amps 10 seconds, Greater than 10,000A to blow in 0.1 seconds.

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-branch-circuit-fuses/class-h-k/bus-ele-ds-1030-non-nos.pdf

A different one FRN-R-200 is current limiting and time delay.
"will hold on inrush current which is five times greater than the amp rating of the fuse for a minimum of ten seconds"
2200 amps 10 seconds, 5500 amps to blow in 0.1 seconds, 13000 amps 0.01 seconds

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-branch-circuit-fuses/class-rk5/bus-ele-ds-1020-frn-r-70-600a.pdf

Extra protection LPN-RK-200SP blows in less time.
2200 amps 10 seconds, 4600 amps 0.1 seconds, 6200 amps 0.01 seconds

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/data-sheets/bus-ele-ds-1004-lpn-rk-70-600a1.pdf

(current approximate; I took it from curves)

 

[RayofSunshine]

FYI, I just got an email from Renvu saying that the 15K is now CEC listed (I don't remember seeing that here before). I'm way across the country, but I thought our CA friends would want to know. Renvu is giving $250 off (see attachment). I don't know how that stacks up to prices from other vendors.

 

[robby]

FYI, I just got an email from Renvu saying that the 15K is now CEC listed (I don't remember seeing that here before). I'm way across the country, but I thought our CA friends would want to know. Renvu is giving $250 off (see attachment). I don't know how that stacks up to prices from other vendors.

Yes it is now listed for use in Ca.
There is a post about it here: Sol-Ark 15K approved CEC

 

[12kw_2021]

Hello

So I have my 15K mounted on the wall in basement, and all of the conduit openings aligned to a 12x12x48 wireway, or raceway. I took my time tracing , measuring, then finally built a template out of 1/4 thick plywood. Then cut one hole, in the wireway, used the cut portion to drop in each of the large holes, and used the center hole from my 50MM hole saw to as a "center locator" to mark, then center punch the center. Drilled each one out, then all the 2 inch conduit to the same length (~7 inches each) then inserted all those in the Solark, and carefully lifted the wireway up, and everything lined up and looked good. Used large 4' level to ensure correct level, then started drilling into the cement wall for tapcon screws to support the large bulky wireway. All should note that specs say you need 6 inch clearance top and bottom , and only 2 inch on either side.

I plan on installing a large "power distribution block" inside the wireway to take the 200A fused input from the new cut off switch, and feed the main power to the Solark Grid in connection, and to the top of the new transfer switch for use if/when the Solark needs to be removed for any reason. The power distribution block is kind of pricey, but I like how it makes the wiring clean and easy to send the 200A input to 2 different locations.

For L1 and L2 I will be running 4/0 Al wire, my next question is what size Al wire for the neutral that also needs to connect to the Solark? Suggestions? I can use 4/0 AL, but I believe that is overkill. I checked the Solark manual, and they only list copper wire sizes and suggest 2/0 for all three?

Sorry..that seems like overkill..

 

[Solar Guppy]

Neutral is same as L1/L2, must be designed same rules as there is no method to prevent 200A L1 or L2 <--> N.

Copper 2/0 is the same code wise as AL 4/0 for current rating

 

[12kw_2021]

Neutral is same as L1/L2, must be designed same rules as there is no method to prevent 200A L1 or L2 <--> N.

Copper 2/0 is the same code wise as AL 4/0 for current rating

Ok.. Got it.. makes sense... thank you ... the GROUND can be smaller, but not the NEUTRAL.