Sol-Ark and batteries

[Tulex]

I really have spent dozens of hours reading the threads. The more I read, the less I understand. Mostly because many of the threads are about specific situations, or go off in tangents on how to make things work for a specific situation. So, I'm hoping some of you can answer some general questions/verify some understandings. This is for a Sol-Ark 15K and LiFePO4 batteries. Without narrowing it down by understanding the below, right now reading all the info you all have offered in the hundreds of threads is like trying to learn a dozen different languages at once.

1 - Only certain batteries (partnered) fully communicate with the Sol-Ark as plug and play. Connect the cable, good to go. Any info the Sol-Ark can use is available to it.
2 - Basically, all the other batteries communicate enough to work. But, you have to figure out what to use for settings, mostly based on the BMS?
3 - Can use Solar Assistant (or others?) to get the info off of the batteries. Can the Sol-Ark be connected to Solar Assistant to provide all the info that a plug and play battery provides?
4 - Does it really matter? I asked this in a different existing thread, but should I even concern myself with the communications? Am I not getting the most out of my batteries/shortening the life without full communication?

It seems that a lot of the info available is for how people make things work because of what they have or can get. I'd prefer to get what most easily works because I have the Sol-Ark. So while I can't justify the cost of Sol-Ark partnered batteries, I'd like to find the next best mostly plug and play setup.

I've invested in the Sol-Ark 15K, it's on it's way. It's a huge investment for us as we are close to retirement. I'm aiming at around 30kw of batteries. I'm very capable as a DIYer once I know what I have to do, and am actually very interested in building my own batteries. Bottom line, I need more general info to pick a direction so that I can then research and ask questions directly related to the path I take.

Thanks

 

[Ampster]

Does it really matter?

It all depends on where you are standing.

I have gone seven years without communications between batteries and several different inverters which I have owned.. A few months ago I upgraded to a SolArk and one of the reasons was I wanted communication between my BMS and the SolArk. It was not the most important factor. I had already been using an expensive Orion BMS for that entire time with at least four different pack configurations. I am also retired and this is an engaging hobby and I feel I am getting more value from my investment with my choice.
One of the questions that may drive your decision is about your choice of batteries. Rack batteries offer the ability to increase capacity over time which may have some value. If that is your choice then I would consider rack batteries which do communicate with the SolArk.

 

[2TrevorJ]

1 - Only certain batteries (partnered) fully communicate with the Sol-Ark as plug and play. Connect the cable, good to go. Any info the Sol-Ark can use is available to it.

True!

Pick a battery listed in this document and follow the listed instructions for that particular manufacturer's comms:

https://www.sol-ark.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Battery-Communications-Integration-Guide-V3.1.pdf

2 - Basically, all the other batteries communicate enough to work. But, you have to figure out what to use for settings, mostly based on the BMS?

Comm-out/open loop settings for commercial off-the-shelf products should be provided by the battery manufacturer.

Of note: you really should also plug in appropriate values for comm-out operation while using supported closed-loop batteries so that if comms should fail the system falls back on appropriate open-loop operation. Partner battery values are (usually) listed in the back of the Sol-Ark manual.

3 - Can use Solar Assistant (or others?) to get the info off of the batteries. Can the Sol-Ark be connected to Solar Assistant to provide all the info that a plug and play battery provides?

Depends on the battery. Worst case scenario with a partner/supported battery is Solar Assistant will get basic BMS data relayed from the 15K imbedded in the 15K's data stream. SOC, temp, voltage, amps. For batteries that are natively supported by Solar Assistant you can run an additional USB adapter straight to the batteries and get more advanced data straight from the battery BMS. Think individual cell voltages and state-of-health. So two adapters, one for the 15K and one for the battery.

4 - Does it really matter? I asked this in a different existing thread, but should I even concern myself with the communications? Am I not getting the most out of my batteries/shortening the life without full communication?

I believe it matters. Closed loop comms is just more accurate. State of charge information never wanders. The BMS tells the 15K what to do in regard to max allowable charge and discharge rate...protecting itself and allowing for soft landings when approaching high and low SOC and/or high or low temps. There's a comfort in knowing that the system is tightly controlled and fire-and-forget.

 

[Ampster]

I agree with all of the above.

Solar Assistant will get basic BMS data relayed from the 15K imbedded in the 15K's data stream. SOC, temp, voltage, amps. For batteries that are natively supported by Solar Assistant you can run an additional USB adapter straight to the batteries and get more advanced data straight from the battery BMS. So two adapters, one for the 15K and one for the battery.

That is also another important factor I did not mention in my earlier short response. I value the data I get from Solar Assistant all of which is available on the SolArk application but the graphs and information are a only few clicks away. My system is constantly evolving as I add additional loads. I drive two EVs and am upgrading my heat sources to heat pump technology. I am in California and am trying to stay ahead of the erosion of benefits in my Net Energy Metering relationship with my power provider.

 

[Tulex]

T

Depends on the battery. Worst case scenario with a partner/supported battery is Solar Assistant will get basic BMS data relayed from the 15K imbedded in the 15K's data stream. SOC, temp, voltage, amps. For batteries that are natively supported by Solar Assistant you can run an additional USB adapter straight to the batteries and get more advanced data straight from the battery BMS. Think individual cell voltages and state-of-health. So two adapters, one for the 15K and one for the battery.

Thanks for the reply.
So say I build my own battery and use a SEPLOS 16S(LFP) 200A BMS (just picked one off the Solar Assistant battery list). I can run USB from the battery to the Pi unit, and from the Pi unit to the Sol-Ark. Sol-Ark would use the info that Solar Assistant is pulling from the battery? So Sol-Ark would basically manage it as if it was one of it's partnered batteries?

 

[Tulex]

One of the questions that may drive your decision is about your choice of batteries. Rack batteries offer the ability to increase capacity over time which may have some value. If that is your choice then I would consider rack batteries which do communicate with the SolArk.

Appreciate the reply. I'm going back and forth between rack and DIY. My concern with rack is that I don't want to invest a lot of money into batteries and then find out it's one that is limited in what I can pull from it in communication. If I'm understanding, with DIY, I can at least choose my BMS that will communicate with some help? I'm starting out with 600ah regardless of how I go. We are actually looking at moving toward being more like minimalists (well, turning off the lights when we aren't using them) than growing the usage, so for now, don't think I will be expanding.

 

[Ampster]

I can run USB from the battery to the Pi unit, and from the Pi unit to the Sol-Ark. Sol-Ark would use the info that Solar Assistant is pulling from the battery? So Sol-Ark would basically manage it as if it was one of it's partnered batteries?

I would confirm with another user or Solar Assitant that it can handle two inputs. In my case, My BMS communicates with the SolArk and the SolArk communicates the BMS values and othe SolArk information to Solar Assistant. I use the CAN inputs to the SolArk but use a splitter (Y cable type RJ45 device) which takes the CAN signals from my BMS and the Solar Assistant. You can buy a USB to RJ45 adaptor to take plug into USB port of Solar Assistant and terminate in an RJ45 plug.

 

[Tulex]

This guy shows it in the middle, but I missed it if he covered how it uses the data.

 

[Ampster]

This guy shows it in the middle, but I missed it if he covered how it uses the data.

Yes he has the Solar Assistant in the middle also with two BMSs and a Smart Shunt. He can see all the data, but I did not pick up how the BMSs communicate with the EG4 inverters. I do not think he had closed communication between inverter and BMS.
In my case my Orion BMS does not have an interface to Solar Assistant so I used closed communication and the SolArk used the BMS values for SOC, charge current, voltage and a few other parameters to feed to Solar Assistant.
Your deision may be based on which equipment you want and what or how that equipment can communicate. My decision was simpler since I had been using that BMS for years and was committed to a DIY pack. In my case the Sol Ark purchase was based on communication with my BMS and with Solar Assistant, neither of which my former inverter would do. I am still fine tuning my inverter setting, including the voltage settings in my BMS which drive my inverter, so I look at Solar Assistant every day, several times a day.

 

[2TrevorJ]

Thanks for the reply.
So say I build my own battery and use a SEPLOS 16S(LFP) 200A BMS (just picked one off the Solar Assistant battery list). I can run USB from the battery to the Pi unit, and from the Pi unit to the Sol-Ark. Sol-Ark would use the info that Solar Assistant is pulling from the battery? So Sol-Ark would basically manage it as if it was one of it's partnered batteries?

No...it doesn't work that way. Solar Assistant is recieve only; it can't send or relay real-time operational data to BMS's or inverters.

 

[Tulex]

No...it doesn't work that way. Solar Assistant is recieve only; it can't send or relay real-time operational data to BMS's or inverters.

Well that's a real bummer. So it appears the best I can do without buying partner batteries is research which BMSs, if any, will fully work with the Sol-Ark, or use Solar Assistant's info to manually fine tune the settings in Sol-Ark.

 

[robby]

Well that's a real bummer. So it appears the best I can do without buying partner batteries is research which BMSs, if any, will fully work with the Sol-Ark, or use Solar Assistant's info to manually fine tune the settings in Sol-Ark.

I would get a BMS that works with the Sol-Ark.
Having a proper SOC value going to the Sol-Ark makes life a lot easier and also gets rid of many problems that can occur.
The BMS that is in the EG4 and SOC batteries works with the Sol-Ark and from what I was told it is a common BMS that you can buy.

 

[robby]

I would confirm with another user or Solar Assitant that it can handle two inputs. In my case, My BMS communicates with the SolArk and the SolArk communicates the BMS values and othe SolArk information to Solar Assistant. I use the CAN inputs to the SolArk but use a splitter (Y cable type RJ45 device) which takes the CAN signals from my BMS and the Solar Assistant. You can buy a USB to RJ45 adaptor to take plug into USB port of Solar Assistant and terminate in an RJ45 plug.

That is the same setup I use and it works perfectly.

 

[houseofancients]

Thanks for the reply.
So say I build my own battery and use a SEPLOS 16S(LFP) 200A BMS (just picked one off the Solar Assistant battery list). I can run USB from the battery to the Pi unit, and from the Pi unit to the Sol-Ark. Sol-Ark would use the info that Solar Assistant is pulling from the battery? So Sol-Ark would basically manage it as if it was one of it's partnered batteries?

seplos can directly communicate with deye/sunsynk/sol-ark through canbus

 

[Tulex]

I would get a BMS that works with the Sol-Ark.
Having a proper SOC value going to the Sol-Ark makes life a lot easier and also gets rid of many problems that can occur.
The BMS that is in the EG4 and SOC batteries works with the Sol-Ark and from what I was told it is a common BMS that you can buy.

The BMS is apparently being kept a secret, I've googled the heck out of it, not finding anything.

 

[Tulex]

seplos can directly communicate with deye/sunsynk/sol-ark through canbus

Been looking at them, hard to actually find a seller. Their own site doesn't have a pay option.

 

[houseofancients]

Been looking at them, hard to actually find a seller. Their own site doesn't have a pay option.

contact them throught alibaba.
docan now sells a rebadged version of them too..
not sure they are already in their houston warehouse

 

[houseofancients]

 

[DIYrich]

Search for EG4 battery. I recently saw a 6 unit rack package (30kWh) for around $8k.

 

[mvonw]

I would offer the OP a bit of a different perspective. Most of the contributors here (although wonderfully generous with their knowledge) are what I would call “solar diy hobbyist/enthusiasts”. Some people just want a reliable system they can build and support and don’t want to worry about every last amp going in/out. I have a SolArk and 34kwh of Trophy batteries that are not in closed loop. Because my system has a lot of unattended time at low draw on the battery bank, the BMS do not register even close to accurate SOC. I am now using a victron shunt and I think I have a much better gauge of the bank’s true SOC.

For me, closed loop isn’t needed, and I don’t think it would benefit me much, in my situation. (The truth is I could never get it to work with the Trophy batteries and I gave up in frustration, but the batteries have been wonderful for over a year now)