Sol-Ark and batteries

[David S]

solar assistant is using rs485 , but shares the bms comms port on newer models of the inverter ( sol-ark 15k, deye 12k single phase 230/ deye 12k 3 phase 230 , sunsynk 12k single phase, sunsynk 12k 3 phase 230v)
the reason people state sa is read-only is because it states so on the SA website :

Configuring Deye/SunSynk/Sol-Ark inverter

How to configure a Deye/SunSynk/Sol-Ark inverter in SolarAssistant.

solar-assistant.io

You are, of course, correct about RS485. I corrected my post to reflect this. I've also been able to establish comms with SA from the HomeGrid battery over CANbus. My confusion. Interesting point about the SA website. You can absolutely edit Sol-Ark settings on the SA software and push them to the inverter.

 

[David S]

i just tested today it can ( at least for the TOU) , but i am running a beta version, so that could be just it

Ahh, that could be the point. I'm running Beta as well. At this point, I can edit any setting (both Power Management and Inverter Settings) and it will update them. After initial submission, it says "Rejected" and then the setting updates a few seconds later.

 

[2TrevorJ]

One other thing: Solar Assistant is NOT read only with the Sol-Ark. It can change effectively any setting in the Sol-Ark over the CANbus connection. I thought I saw somewhere in the thread the assertion that Solar Assistant was read only. It's not.

There's a difference between changing a setting and sending real-time data to other components in the system to automatically regulate their operation (which is what he asked about).

No...it doesn't work that way. Solar Assistant is receive only; it can't send or relay real-time operational data to BMS's or inverters.

 

[Shawn Hayes]

I really have spent dozens of hours reading the threads. The more I read, the less I understand. Mostly because many of the threads are about specific situations, or go off in tangents on how to make things work for a specific situation. So, I'm hoping some of you can answer some general questions/verify some understandings. This is for a Sol-Ark 15K and LiFePO4 batteries. Without narrowing it down by understanding the below, right now reading all the info you all have offered in the hundreds of threads is like trying to learn a dozen different languages at once.

1 - Only certain batteries (partnered) fully communicate with the Sol-Ark as plug and play. Connect the cable, good to go. Any info the Sol-Ark can use is available to it.
2 - Basically, all the other batteries communicate enough to work. But, you have to figure out what to use for settings, mostly based on the BMS?
3 - Can use Solar Assistant (or others?) to get the info off of the batteries. Can the Sol-Ark be connected to Solar Assistant to provide all the info that a plug and play battery provides?
4 - Does it really matter? I asked this in a different existing thread, but should I even concern myself with the communications? Am I not getting the most out of my batteries/shortening the life without full communication?

It seems that a lot of the info available is for how people make things work because of what they have or can get. I'd prefer to get what most easily works because I have the Sol-Ark. So while I can't justify the cost of Sol-Ark partnered batteries, I'd like to find the next best mostly plug and play setup.

I've invested in the Sol-Ark 15K, it's on it's way. It's a huge investment for us as we are close to retirement. I'm aiming at around 30kw of batteries. I'm very capable as a DIYer once I know what I have to do, and am actually very interested in building my own batteries. Bottom line, I need more general info to pick a direction so that I can then research and ask questions directly related to the path I take.

Thanks

Have you researched the Batrium BMS and its ability to mostly communicate with Sol-Ark?
(see threads on how this is done)
My set up works great for me, SOC is very accurate with my DIY LiFePo4 packs. There’s only a couple items that do not translate (share). However, the things most important to monitoring and communication between the two are there.
Again, these are all opinions based on experiences. However, reading through this thread, nowhere did I see Batrium mentioned as an option. It could be a viable option for your needs if you want to do the research. However I will say, this is probably one of the more expensive options. I chose the Batrium over the Orion model BMS that actually has complete communication.
However I do not have solar assistant on my system.

 

[DIYrich]

Any thoughts on how the Chargeverter reflects in Powerview or SA with. Sol-ark 15k? If CV charges the battery, will that somehow confuse Sol-ark with SOC rising and no power being sent by Sol-ark to the battery? Or does Sol-ark report whatever the BMS tells it?


Also, will BMS adjust power a battery takes, or is it all-or-none (cuts battery off when fully charged)?

 

[houseofancients]

Any thoughts on how the Chargeverter reflects in Powerview or SA with. Sol-ark 15k? If CV charges the battery, will that somehow confuse Sol-ark with SOC rising and no power being sent by Sol-ark to the battery? Or does Sol-ark report whatever the BMS tells it?


Also, will BMS adjust power a battery takes, or is it all-or-none (cuts battery off when fully charged)?

normally sol-ark will report what the bms tells it

yes, but the bms does need to support that

 

[RV10flyer]

I would offer the OP a bit of a different perspective. Most of the contributors here (although wonderfully generous with their knowledge) are what I would call “solar diy hobbyist/enthusiasts”. Some people just want a reliable system they can build and support and don’t want to worry about every last amp going in/out. I have a SolArk and 34kwh of Trophy batteries that are not in closed loop. Because my system has a lot of unattended time at low draw on the battery bank, the BMS do not register even close to accurate SOC. I am now using a victron shunt and I think I have a much better gauge of the bank’s true SOC.

For me, closed loop isn’t needed, and I don’t think it would benefit me much, in my situation. (The truth is I could never get it to work with the Trophy batteries and I gave up in frustration, but the batteries have been wonderful for over a year now)

17MWH produced last year from my 2 ea 12 K’s and 143kWh battery. There is no communication and never will be. It’s not necessary and provides more complexity and points of failure.

 

[Tulex]

There's a difference between changing a setting and sending real-time data to other components in the system to automatically regulate their operation (which is what he asked about).

And, the person at Solar Assistant said it can do just that, send real time data, just not for Sol-Ark yet.

 

[Ampster]

Yes, closed loop is beneficial. Fact.

Yes, I am of the same opinion. My opinion is more than a belief and because you and I said it, that opinion is a fact.

 

[2TrevorJ]

Edit: Nevermind... ?

 

[mvonw]

17MWH produced last year from my 2 ea 12 K’s and 143kWh battery. There is no communication and never will be. It’s not necessary.

My experience too. In theory it sounds useful, but I think in actual practice, not so much…

 

[David S]

And, the person at Solar Assistant said it can do just that, send real time data, just not for Sol-Ark yet.

See now, this is really interesting. Solar Assistant can, in fact, relay data, but right now it's principally via MQTT. I use this to integrate my Sol-Ark into Home Assistant. It's actually possible to update settings via this chain as well.

 

[David S]

17MWH produced last year from my 2 ea 12 K’s and 143kWh battery. There is no communication and never will be. It’s not necessary and provides more complexity and points of failure.

That's impressive production. WRT points of failure, if the comms link is broken, it becomes "no loop" and reverts to Voltage. The only real complexity I found with my rig was making the longer cable I needed.

But, as I said, required === no. There are likely far more systems in use today that don't have closed loop than do, YMMV.

 

[629658]

That's impressive production. WRT points of failure, if the comms link is broken, it becomes "no loop" and reverts to Voltage. The only real complexity I found with my rig was making the longer cable I needed.

But, as I said, required === no. There are likely far more systems in use today that don't have closed loop than do, YMMV.

If you a referring to the Sol Ark “no loop” you can choose % or voltage. There is no default.

 

[Tulex]

contact them throught alibaba.
docan now sells a rebadged version of them too..
not sure they are already in their houston warehouse

It looks like the EEL unit is also the same. I believe both EEL and Docan sell the battery box kit with BMS in it.
Docan doesn't have it in the US yet.
So far, best deal is directly from Seplos, 2 X 48V 200A W/ Bluetooth and LCD and adapter for PC shipped one week delivery is $470 and Paypal fee, unless you have Alibaba, of which I don't, so don't know what fees would be involved if I did.

I'm assuming I want to go with the 200A unit. 150 and 100 aren't that much less. Build is 2 batteries, 16X304AH.

 

[houseofancients]

It looks like the EEL unit is also the same. I believe both EEL and Docan sell the battery box kit with BMS in it.
Docan doesn't have it in the US yet.
So far, best deal is directly from Seplos, 2 X 48V 200A W/ Bluetooth and LCD and adapter for PC shipped one week delivery is $470 and Paypal fee, unless you have Alibaba, of which I don't, so don't know what fees would be involved if I did.

I'm assuming I want to go with the 200A unit. 150 and 100 aren't that much less. Build is 2 batteries, 16X304AH.

just be very much aware eel resels, any issues you will be left with eel support, which is rather less than ideal to say the least ( do a forum search).
if you cant go directly to seplos ( what do you mean unless you have alibaba, which you dont ?
alibaba is a website not an app ), i highly recommend docan tech, as they have a us ( texas) local warehouse and good reviews here, which eel certainly doesnt have.

if you go for the 304 cells, i would take ( and in fact do have) the 200a version

 

[Tulex]

just be very much aware eel resels, any issues you will be left with eel support, which is rather less than ideal to say the least ( do a forum search).
if you cant go directly to seplos ( what do you mean unless you have alibaba, which you dont ?
alibaba is a website not an app ), i highly recommend docan tech, as they have a us ( texas) local warehouse and good reviews here, which eel certainly doesnt have.

if you go for the 304 cells, i would take ( and in fact do have) the 200a version

Docan is a lot more for total cost, their shipping was outrageous.
I meant that I'm not registered with an account for Alibaba, so I don't know what the payment options are.
Didn't look into the eel, just saw that it existed. Thanks for the heads up on them.

 

[12kw_2021]

Thought I would chime in here, I have a Sol-ark 15K installed since October of last year, and 32 Grade A eve cells from 18650 battery store .

Batteries arrived perfectly packed, and in perfect condition.

I have 2 JK 200A bms running, and both batteries connected to the Sol-ark. I am still learning but the batteries/Sol-ark operated from Nov-March without on site manual intervention.

The power view remote software was utilized to monitor and adjust the setup as needed.

What I have learned from my install, no communication between BMS and Sol-ark

1.0 Sol-ark will misunderstand the SOC unless you have good PV weather, and 3 or 4 days of cloudy, snowy weather will cause Sol-ark to have a mis-understood SOC.

Remote Corrective action: You can modify the Sol-ark battery size by 1ah, and this causes a relearn of the battery capacity.

You can do this using the Powerview over the www whenever you decide to do so.

2.0 I had one bus bar come loose, or I forgot to complete the Torque on one cell, and that cell started mis-behaving and V went high, and stopped battery charge.

Being remote I noticed less battery capacity, but could not correct it until I arrived home. The second battery continued to support the home needs and all is well after correctly connected the bus bar. Battery with loose bus bar was operating, just at reduced capacity.

In the case above just describe, I don't see what/how direct communication would have helped my battery with one loose bus bar issue, so I agree with others who say direct communication is nice, but not needed.

3.0 Sol-ark install videos state clearly that "even if" you have direct communications with a battery, you need to correctly set the battery settings up "in case of communication failure" .

So having direct communication is again "nice to have" but doesn't save you any set up complexity. You still need to setup battery manual defaults in the Sol-ark.

4.0 Original poster has concern that without direct communication between Sol-ark and battery bank, the battery life may be impacted.

Battery life is a function of not overcharging above 3.6V, not charging when battery is too cold, and not forcing battery below 2.5V, and not sending too much current, or drawing too much current from you battery bank.

All of these "battery life" concerns are addressed by using a quality BMS, and the BMS is what keeps your battery safe, and impacts battery life.

Direct communication with the Sol-ark, (or not) doesn't really impact battery life as long as your BMS is correctly programmed and operates as expected.

Lowest Battery Cost possible without direct communication :

I spent $188/kWh for my 32 cells and two 200A JK BMS for battery control.
Assuming my 32 EVE 280ah cells configured as 16 cell batteries provide 30Kwh of storage.

$5273 for 32 Grade A EVE 280ah cells delivered to south eastern PA from USA warehouse
$369 for 2 JK 200A BMS from Alibaba
=======
$5642

$5642/30kwh Bank = $188/kWh of available storage

Eve Grade A 280a have the heavy duty posts with dual screws on each terminal. These terminals are FAR SUPERIOR to the simple welded posts, or tapped holes for small posts, (that frequently break off and cause severe heartburn to DIY folks)

16850 battery store has a 12 month warranty, and they provided a free shipping label via email, when I complained about my one bad cell.

(I won't need that, cause I am a dummy and the bus bar was loose cell was fine).


Ok.. that's my learning so far, and my opinion which is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Direct Communication is nice, but not required, and won't damage your battery as long as you have and program a quality BMS