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Solar water heater - I don’t get it

Good quality solar hot water panels are insulated and use low e glass. You definitely have to add freeze protection in the panel loop. Polypropylene glycol works great and most solar hot water tanks have a coil around the tank to isolate it from the glycol solution.
There is also a small circulator pump required, which can easily be powered by PV.

Every time someone brings the topic up on this forum, the vast majority of people trash them.
I have one that has been working great for over 20 years and I would never consider replacing it with pv panels, and I do also have pv panels.
 
Not in a well planned system.
Can you give an idea what a well planned system looks like? If you size for winter then you have to much in the summer. If you size for summer there is not enough in winter, and so on.

Or the opposite in Texas. I don't have enough pv for summer yet today I used less than half of my production
 
Can you give an idea what a well planned system looks like? If you size for winter then you have to much in the summer. If you size for summer there is not enough in winter, and so on.

Or the opposite in Texas. I don't have enough pv for summer yet today I used less than half of my production
When complete, my system will store the excess summer production for winter heating. (Sand battery)
 
I would love to have a solar water heater. But it's just not that popular in the US. I'm not even aware of anyone that's doing it near me.
 
Solar hot water services have been around (in Australia at least) since the 1970's...
Solar gridtie PV became popular in Australia in the 1990's, but thermal solar was still far cheaper up until the late 2010's
Yep. Solar thermal water heaters were very popular in Australia and there are hundreds of thousands of them still in operation but sales of new systems have been in decline for the last decade and are now dominated by people just wanting to replace like for like. They are a relatively expensive way to heat water now.

As has been noted that's due to the astonishing drop in cost of solar PV here while solar PV thermal system cost has been stagnant. The technology and manufacturing/installation processes for solar thermal reached the end of the cost reduction curve a long time ago.

It has become cheaper to install PV + an electric water heater, while the combination of solar PV + heat pump water heater has a higher overall "efficiency" than solar thermal water heaters, and for less cost than solar thermal. PV arrays are of course a more flexible means of energy capture as the energy can be deployed for pretty much anything else once the water is hot.
 
Every time someone brings the topic up on this forum, the vast majority of people trash them.
I have one that has been working great for over 20 years and I would never consider replacing it with pv panels, and I do also have pv panels
Solar thermal water heating is terrific technology.

It's just not nearly as cost effective nowadays when compared with the alternatives when installing a new water heater, which is why its deployment is on the decline. Solar PV + heat pump now has its measure.
 
With any PV system- unless you want the expense and hassle of maintaining and running a backup generator- it is best to plan for the worst case scenario and simply go with that...

If you have excess in the good times- well thats not a problem (go wild, throw a party, and use some it up lol) but if you plan for the best times, and run out in the bad times- well have fun sitting in the dark...
Overpanelling for the worst case scenarios is cheap and easy to do lol

Sure you 'could' add extra batteries and extra charge controllers etc- but that is all $$$ (especially in the case of battery storage) and unless your last name is Gates , first name Bill, we simply can't afford to just 'throw in another set of batteries' just to use up all the 'good weather' production...

It isn't as if it is hurting anything having it sitting there just loafing along for a few hours- and panels are a damn sight cheaper than batteries...

Some people go overboard with trying to use every last microwatt of power generated at all costs- and their systems are much more expensive than they need to be... Me I'd rather just leave that excess PV production there for the bad times, and use that money on buying some new toys to play with in the workshop LOL

(my own system was designed that even in the middle of a cyclone, it would meet my 'normal' energy requirements- any time there is excess power left over- then I could use it to putter around in the workshop and play with the big toys that use a lot of power like the lathe and mill- but they aren't a 'requirement' so if the weather is bad- then I simply wouldn't use them...)
 
Solar thermal water heating is terrific technology.

It's just not nearly as cost effective nowadays when compared with the alternatives when installing a new water heater, which is why its deployment is on the decline. Solar PV + heat pump now has its measure.
Still not a fan of heat pumps- thermal PV just works (at worst we had to change a $30 water pump once- only because its cover got damaged whippersnipping and it filled with rainwater- who would have thought that that might make it stop working lol), I know of three heatpump ones that have had to get expensive repairs within a few years...
 
I don’t know if people realize that most solar hot water heaters have elements built into them for backup heating on cloudy days. I have also seen ones with the heating element sitting flat on the roof and a small pump circulates the water across the element to the remotely placed tank. Kind of the best of both worlds scenario.
 
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its a different solution for harvesting the suns energy and if it works for some people in a particular situation, then that is all that matters IMHO. Mine is bigger/better/longer/more efficient/more adaptable than yours ....... The main issue should be on a new installation to try to work out which is the best option for the investment. Years ago, solar hot water would potentially have been a better option (cost) and if its still working and doing what it was designed to do then why would anyone think its a bad thing?
 
I don’t know if people realize that most solar hot water heaters have elements built into them for backup heating on cloudy days. I have also seen ones with the heating element sitting flat on the roof and a small pump circulates the water across the element to the remotely placed tank. Kind of the best of both worlds scenario.
There are both LPG and electric backup tanks available here in Australia (we always left the electric boost turned off on ours, it really isn't needed up north where we were... it took about a week of heavy cloud cover and pouring rain before it became necessary to turn the booster on lol)
Indeed ours was just one of the 'thermal plate on the roof' systems, with remote tank (actually the original electric HWS that came with the house when it was bought) just with the solar thermal plate plumbed into it

1708503407724.png
The east facing PV array on the left (the west facing PV array out of sight on the far side of the roof) and the north facing thermal HWS panel on the right, the HWS tank (400L) is just out of sight down to the right- as usual, the boost is turned off in the fuse box lol (orange breaker)
 
I don’t know if people realize that most solar hot water heaters have elements built into them for backup heating on cloudy days. I have also seen ones with the heating element sitting flat on the roof and a small pump circulates the water across the element to the remotely placed tank. Kind of the best of both worlds scenario.
In Australia pretty much all solar thermal systems have a backup boost system, either electric or gas. It would be mandatory for health reasons (legionella control).

Often people don't realise their solar thermal system has stopped working until much later when their electric or gas bill goes up a lot because the booster is now doing all the work.

Still not a fan of heat pumps- thermal PV just works (at worst we had to change a $30 water pump once- only because its cover got damaged whippersnipping and it filled with rainwater- who would have thought that that might make it stop working lol), I know of three heatpump ones that have had to get expensive repairs within a few years...
In rural / regional areas they are a risk. These are places where simple and robust technology reigns supreme. Anything which can be readily repaired by yourself is a good thing especially when using readily available stock items which don't cost much.

Also not helped by a heat pump water heater industry full of bottom feeding charlatan installers selling crappy product with shoddy instals as a way to pocket govt handouts, then they wind up the company to avoid all future responsibility. The better quality systems are very good though. There are 3-4 brands/types I would use. The rest no thanks.

Years ago, solar hot water would potentially have been a better option (cost) and if its still working and doing what it was designed to do then why would anyone think its a bad thing?
I don't think anyone considers an existing working system a bad thing. It'll have likely paid for itself many moons back and long may it continue to supply cheap hot water. The day will eventually come however when it reaches the end of its useful life and needs replacement. That's when the available alternative options are to be considered.

In some cases solar thermal will still be a wise choice. e.g. there may be regulatory restrictions on how much PV you can install, so as a way to increase the energy capture potential of your roof/block, you stick with solar thermal for the water heating, freeing up the PV for everything else.

A water tank is after all a pretty cheap form of energy storage.
 
I have a Australian made Solahart solar water heater on my house in Oregon. It's been producing all the hot water I need for 9 months out of the year for over 30 years. It's a thermosiphon unit with the tank on the roof of my off grid house so there is no electrical power involved, though it does have a built in heating element that I haven't hooked up. The unit cost $1200 but the state of Oregon paid $1140 in tax credits so it cost almost nothing.
 
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With any PV system- unless you want the expense and hassle of maintaining and running a backup generator- it is best to plan for the worst case scenario and simply go with that...

If you have excess in the good times- well thats not a problem (go wild, throw a party, and use some it up lol) but if you plan for the best times, and run out in the bad times- well have fun sitting in the dark...
Overpanelling for the worst case scenarios is cheap and easy to do lol

Sure you 'could' add extra batteries and extra charge controllers etc- but that is all $$$ (especially in the case of battery storage) and unless your last name is Gates , first name Bill, we simply can't afford to just 'throw in another set of batteries' just to use up all the 'good weather' production...
all the batteries in the world wont help you capture all the excess production when there is excess pv but I get what you mean.
It isn't as if it is hurting anything having it sitting there just loafing along for a few hours- and panels are a damn sight cheaper than batteries...

Some people go overboard with trying to use every last microwatt of power generated at all costs- and their systems are much more expensive than they need to be... Me I'd rather just leave that excess PV production there for the bad times, and use that money on buying some new toys to play with in the workshop LOL

I actually think there is a different solution. sell the excess to the power company. then it doesnt go to waste and in many cases you shorten your roi. I also think this could be a cheaper solution overall. because you can get a system that can support most of the loads most of the time without having to size the inverter for several gray days in a row, surges, capacity etc
 
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all the batteries in the world wont help you capture all the excess production when there is excess pv but I get what you mean.


I actually think there is a different solution. sell the excess to the power company. then it doesnt go to waste and in many cases you shorten your roi. I also think this could be a cheaper solution overall. because you can get a system that can support most of the loads most of the time without having to size the inverter for several gray days in a row, surges, capacity etc
Well bit hard in my case (I' m offgrid in rural Australia- I can't collect buckets of excess electricity and carry them into town to sell lol)
If they want to come and install the powerline for free to me to use, thats fine by me, but it would take a long time to justify the nearly fifty thousand dollars I was quoted to have a power line installed to my place...

That's one of the reasons I went solar offgrid in the first place- my entire solar system (18kw of panels, 20kwh of LYP lithium battery bank, 12kw inverter and 4 3kw external charge controllers, racking, wiring etc) only cost me $17.5k in comparison...
 
Solar thermal water heating is terrific technology.

It's just not nearly as cost effective nowadays when compared with the alternatives when installing a new water heater, which is why its deployment is on the decline. Solar PV + heat pump now has its measure.
I agree solar pv plus heat pump is a much better idea than pV to resistance heating, but a much better idea is solar hot water panel to pv powered heat pump.
 
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I agree solar pv plus heat pump is a much better idea than pV to resistance heating, but a much better idea is solar hot water panel to pv powered heat pump.
It sure would be a low energy system to run.

Which makes more sense for a new heat pump water heater system:
i. a couple of extra high wattage panels, or
ii. a solar thermal collector and all the extra plumbing required to feed a heat pump water heater?

PV is just more versatile - once the water is hot they can keep providing energy for other things.
 
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