diy solar

diy solar

Struggling to determine the perfect set up....battery memory effect considerations

The link you post says little other han there is a memory effect...

Did you post the correct link?

YES but I see now that they are charging for the article ... let me see if i can find it somewhere that does not charge .. I guess I see the entire article since I am still signing into the site under my University email address ...
 
There is absolutely NO MEMORY AFFECT at all with LiFePO4 batteries. PPL writing these articles that say there is memory are basically the "flat earth" guys of the chemical world - OR they are taking some very rare and bizarre moments and writing about those .. I'm sorry for being so blunt but seriously there has been 1000's of academia, govt, and contractor papers written on the subject and i just don't want anyone to think wrong and pass on rumours..

One of the best papers on the subject written by the US Govt is at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23584142 .. My boss was one of the PhD's (Chemical engineering) that helped write it. There are 149 citations and over 50 test result graphs all clearing stating that there is NOT 10% - nor 5% nor 1% -- but ZERO percent Memory ...

YES there is voltage loss if you don't operate the LFP corretly -- but thats 1000% different then memory loss ..

And as for LFP not being drop and go in the RV industry -- being in the petroleum exploration division of a major oil company we have hundreds of Trailers and RV's and virtually everyone has a solar backup and virtually everyone has had their WetCells or AGM swapped out with LFP when the batteries needed replacing .. and honestly -- all we did was reset the SCC to new parameters -- top balance the batteries -- and never look back .. AND all we use the BMS's for is high voltage cutoff / low voltage cutoff / and HI/LO TEMP cutoff .. we don't even balance again after they have been top balanced - because we have NEVER found a need to unless a cell completely collapses ...
This is the best post i have come across. Someone with actual experience, stating that the battery packs never needed rebalancing again. YAHOOOOO (y)(y)(y)(y).....unlike, yes , you should check them every 6 months etc.

Edit....incidentally, what is the main cause of the cell collapses you have experienced?
 
The thing about RV battery banks, is that they are likely to be built in, under a bench etc. Getting access to them every 6-12 months to check on the balancing would be a PITA. Initially, i had thought that an active balancer would distribute up to 6A to each individual cell, all the way up and all the way down, thus no further possible problems with unbalanced cells. Thats not how they work....shocker. My understanding is now, that they mainly do their 'work' in the 'knees', where the detectable voltage difference becomes apparent, however, they struggle to keep up, with the rate of change. With passive balancers, they bleed off energy from the single highest cell once in the knees. So all the talk about cycling battery banks between 75% - 25% SOC to achieve many more cycles, is in reality, just tosh and cant be accomplished in a practical sense by the average DIY'er. So is charging well below the ceiling at say 3.4v/cell or below, trying to stay below the 90% SOC. You need to reach the higher voltage to activate the ions and trigger the passive balancing once in the knees.

Now, may well be, by much anecdotal evidence from members, that the amount of cell 'drift' is so minimal, as to be pointless worring about, but nevertheless, they all want to keep checking on them....i'd say that was a niggle.....lol.

THIS IS JUST MY .02 ....

As an EE I believe that everything should work, cool, heat, move 100% as it was designed to do. And it bothers me when it doesn’t. I send more stuff back to Amazon and Alibaba because it did NOT do what the specs said it should have … I get that from my dad I guess who still listens to vinyl records and will tinker for hours over perfect stylus pressure and exact wiring and this and that … The issue is that I cannot hear a difference at all after he tinkers all day – BUT he can …

That is the same with checking cell voltages. We have some guys at work that everytime they go to a site they will check the batteries and each cell and tweak this or that … I on the other hand Top balance a battery when I first get it … drop it in .. and walk away …

A year later – my batteries are still virtually as perfectly balanced as the techs that work for me who spent hours and hours throughout the year checking the cells often and using a BMS and tweaking …

I guess the morale of the story is – you just need to do what you feel good doing … Me I like to put a record on a listen to it … Dad he likes to tinker with the sound for 2 hours and then listen to it – we both get the same degree of satisfaction …

But honestly – I would NOT stay away from LFP batteries because you are concerned that several times a year you need to get to the batteries to level anything … honestly the difference between just doing a “drop-n-Go” or “constantly checking and tweaking” after a year is insignificant ..

And YES – I also set my batteries to drop to 15% and charge to 90% … heck why not – even if I only get 2000 cycles out of them I will be 30 (7 years) before they even start to wear out … trying to do all of this to squeeze out a few more cycles is fun for the hobbyist or RV’r whose bored … but for some of us … DROP-N-GO gets us back to the office faster so I can watch NETFLIX …

PS – Just kidding about NETFLIX in case any of my supervisors are on this forum also … J
 
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This is the best post i have come across. Someone with actual experience, stating that the battery packs never needed rebalancing again. YAHOOOOO (y)(y)(y)(y).....unlike, yes , you should check them every 6 months etc.

Edit....incidentally, what is the main cause of the cell collapses you have experienced?

Going to say that 99% of the cell collaspese was due to HEAT ....

Just a few examples.

One of the huge trailers we have with a huge generator on it was pointing the wrong way and the noise from the exhaust was pointing as one of the supervisors trailers ... he had a welder just put a 90 degree bend in it to help move some of the sound away ... That 90 bend pointed right at my battery container ... YEAH - the batteries puffed up like marshmallows .. they did not explode or catch fire - LFP rarely RARELY does - but they swell up enough that we had to CUT them out of their cages ..

Another time we had significantly under estimated usage and literally has a 400aH battery charging and then discharging at 1C ... the ONLY reason that this became an issue was because we had NOT vented the container it was in properly ... and YES -- by the time we got out there 30 minutes later it was still tooooo hot to touch ...

and the list goes on...

From where i sit -- #1 killer of LFP is HEAT ...

BUT never once have I seen one catch fire or blowup ... which is nice since we normally don't have time to let them cool down to swap them out ...
 
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