Texas grid close to edge tonight ?

[Checkthisout]

Those are DC chargers, not AC. Completely different beast. You won't have those at home.

22 kW is about the upper limit for an at home AC charging, using a 3-phase 400 V EVSE. But most EVs can't accept that much AC power anyway, and are typically only able to draw half that or less. The standard range Ford Lightning charges from AC at 11kW max. The LR version can do 19 kW.


Why not?

An off-peak charge will supply more than enough miles in the tank for a day's run from home to supply store to worksite and back home.

But you know what else it does? It can supply AC output at 10 kWh (17 kWh for the long range version). That V2L capability is pretty neat.

It's a 98 kWh battery + 10 kW inverter with a truck attached for $50k.

I like the truck but i like the hybrid version more.

However, we weren't talking about trucks.

We were talking about grid loading.

If everyone changing to electrics isn't going to drastically increase grid load then the vehicles weren't contributing much to C02 output in the first place and spending a shit load of money changing everything over is pointless.

You cannot make both claims I.E.

1) Passenger vehicles contribute a significant portion of C02 emissions.

And,

2) Changing them over to electric won't strain grid and generation sources.

Only 1 of the above can be true. Take your pick.

 

[Checkthisout]

Honestly, 15 years ago, I thought all cars and trucks would be hybrids by now with plug-in hybrids being phased in.

 

[Checkthisout]

Those are DC chargers, not AC. Completely different beast. You won't have those at home.

22 kW is about the upper limit for an at home AC charging, using a 3-phase 400 V EVSE. But most EVs can't accept that much AC power anyway, and are typically only able to draw half that or less. The standard range Ford Lightning charges from AC at 11kW max. The LR version can do 19 kW.


Why not?

An off-peak charge will supply more than enough miles in the tank for a day's run from home to supply store to worksite and back home.

But you know what else it does? It can supply AC output at 10 kWh (17 kWh for the long range version). That V2L capability is pretty neat.

It's a 98 kWh battery + 10 kW inverter with a truck attached for $50k.

This assumes one returns to base every night.

If their car rarely needs a zero to full charge and they return home each evening, then that person changing over to electric made very little if any difference in C02 emissions.

 

[wattmatters]

This assumes one returns to base every night.

Then they stop by a supercharger if needed.

If their car rarely needs a zero to full charge and they return home each evening, then that person changing over to electric made very little if any difference in C02 emissions.

I fail to see how you arrive at that conclusion.

You cannot make both claims I.E.

1) Passenger vehicles contribute a significant portion of C02 emissions.

I never made that claim. I don't know what the figure is in the USA but here in Australia light vehicles represent ~8% of our total CO₂ emissions.

It's not nothing but equally it's still worth reducing where sensibly possible.

EVs however are not the best solution for reducing light vehicle CO₂ emissions. Reducing the number of trips by such vehicles is. That means more emphasis on developing and encouraging public and active transport options. That's a difficult sell in personal car centric societies like the USA and Australia.

The bigger benefit of EVs (for Australia at least) is with respect to energy security (EV's are powered by energy produced locally, and are not reliant on imported oil) and the reduction in tailpipe emissions for cleaner air in city and urban areas in particular (better health outcomes). CO₂ emission reduction is there but it's not that great, certainly not a major reform. From an emissions perspective EVs are just a less worse choice than ICEVs.

And,

2) Changing them over to electric won't strain grid and generation sources.

Yet the people responsible for modelling this don't seem particularly worried.

In Australia the national market operator are unconcerned about the impact of EVs. Indeed they view EVs as a good opportunity to assist with grid stability, by providing load when the system needs it and with potential to support the grid at peak demand times.

The modelling is updated annually:

https://aemo.com.au/-/media/files/stakeholder_consultation/consultations/nem-consultations/2022/2023-inputs-assumptions-and-scenarios-consultation/supporting-materials-for-2023/csiro-2022-electric-vehicles-projections-report.pdf

And in the AEMO's long range grid forecasts they show the expected impact of EVs. By 2040 EV's are expected to represent ~10% of total grid demand, which is a small annual growth rate of 0.6%. It's also less than the expected reduction in business and household demand due to consumption efficiencies.

NATIONAL ELECTRICITY FORECASTING

Now things may well be different in Texas but I suspect we have more similarities than differences.

 

[Checkthisout]

Then they stop by a supercharger if needed.


I fail to see how you arrive at that conclusion.



I never made that claim. I don't know what the figure is in the USA but here in Australia light vehicles represent ~8% of our total CO₂ emissions.

It's not nothing but equally it's still worth reducing where sensibly possible.

EVs however are not the best solution for reducing light vehicle CO₂ emissions. Reducing the number of trips by such vehicles is. That means more emphasis on developing and encouraging public and active transport options. That's a difficult sell in personal car centric societies like the USA and Australia.

The bigger benefit of EVs (for Australia at least) is with respect to energy security (EV's are powered by energy produced locally, and are not reliant on imported oil) and the reduction in tailpipe emissions for cleaner air in city and urban areas in particular (better health outcomes). CO₂ emission reduction is there but it's not that great, certainly not a major reform. From an emissions perspective EVs are just a less worse choice than ICEVs.


Yet the people responsible for modelling this don't seem particularly worried.

In Australia the national market operator are unconcerned about the impact of EVs. Indeed they view EVs as a good opportunity to assist with grid stability, by providing load when the system needs it and with potential to support the grid at peak demand times.

The modelling is updated annually:

https://aemo.com.au/-/media/files/stakeholder_consultation/consultations/nem-consultations/2022/2023-inputs-assumptions-and-scenarios-consultation/supporting-materials-for-2023/csiro-2022-electric-vehicles-projections-report.pdf

And in the AEMO's long range grid forecasts they show the expected impact of EVs. By 2040 EV's are expected to represent ~10% of total grid demand, which is a small annual growth rate of 0.6%. It's also less than the expected reduction in business and household demand due to consumption efficiencies.

View attachment 164825

NATIONAL ELECTRICITY FORECASTING

Now things may well be different in Texas but I suspect we have more similarities than differences.

Right?

I think you would be pretty upset if you went to use your car and saw the power company had sucked half the gas out of your tank and said sorry, we needed that but we'll totally fill it back when you're done.

 

[wattmatters]

I think you would be pretty upset if you went to use your car and saw the power company had sucked half the gas out of your tank and said sorry, we needed that but we'll totally fill it back when you're done.

Huh?

If you are making some silly criticism of the potential for V2L / V2G then please, give these people some credit for not being morons.

No one will be forced to turn on V2X. It's an entirely voluntary thing - but many may well do so because it is either helping them reduce their peak period grid imports, or even better, earn them nice credits for exporting excess energy right when the market is willing to pay the most for it. It's now in trials in the UK and South Australia, and probably other places in Europe.

EVs are set with a minimum charge level below which V2X does not breach - a limit which you can choose anywhere above the lower floor.

Thirdly, when the need for grid support has ended (peak period is over) then re-charging can commence (at a lower rate than the credit you earn or the cost of peak power you have just offset).

Putting aside V2X capability, what I think may happen is requirements that Level 2 home charging have some controls in place to avoid, or at least reduce, power draw during peak periods or times of grid stress. This is already in place in one state here, where Level 2 EVSE are required to be connected to a separate controlled load supply, which supplies power for at least 18 hours/day, only avoiding the peak demand period. You can still use a regular plug in charger if needed. The CL supply is, BTW, charged at off-peak rates.

 

[cs1234]

@wattmatters

I don't think you quite realize the level of distrust we Americans have in our government / politicians. We naturally assume they are only going to do things that serve their personal financial best interest and that of their lobbyists. Combine that with the natural tendency to support your "teams" stance, and you get what we have taking place here.

 

[wattmatters]

I don't think you quite realize the level of distrust we Americans have in our government / politicians. We naturally assume they are only going to do things that serve their personal financial best interest and that of their lobbyists. Combine that with the natural tendency to support your "teams" stance, and you get what we have taking place here.

I agree there certainly are cultural differences which can be difficult to fathom.

Which is why I said in this post many pages back:

I view it (but others may not - just my opinion) as an example of an imbalance between politicians/rent seekers/profiteers and the engineers who design, build, maintain and operate critical infrastructure. This is not unique to Texas, it exists here and the world over.

You are talking about public perception of this imbalance, where I was talking about the actual imbalance. They will be reasonably correlated but there can be misalignments. Where that balance lies does vary from place to place.

 

[MurphyGuy]

@wattmatters

I don't think you quite realize the level of distrust we Americans have in our government / politicians. We naturally assume they are only going to do things that serve their personal financial best interest and that of their lobbyists. Combine that with the natural tendency to support your "teams" stance, and you get what we have taking place here.

That's because half of Americans have an intelligence level that is below average..

Most of our population have become ignorant.. They're too lazy or stupid to research things themselves so they depend on whoever their favorite talking head is.. When they want their opinion, they'll give it to them.

And of course, this is absolutely exasperated by our own government doing stupid stuff.. When the gov does something good, no one mentions it.. when they do something stupid, they dial up the rhetoric to 11.

Its amazing the human race is still here..

 

[Checkthisout]

That's because half of Americans have an intelligence level that is below average..

Most of our population have become ignorant.. They're too lazy or stupid to research things themselves so they depend on whoever their favorite talking head is.. When they want their opinion, they'll give it to them.

And of course, this is absolutely exasperated by our own government doing stupid stuff.. When the gov does something good, no one mentions it.. when they do something stupid, they dial up the rhetoric to 11.

Its amazing the human race is still here..

Yeah like actually believing that agents of Russia are on this website making fun of you for being a hypocrite.

If I thought you were joking, I would think you were clever but you're really not kidding.

Like any run-of-the mill tin-foil hat moron you actually genuinely believe there are Russian agents on here to discredit all the "mad truths" you be rep'n.

 

[aenyc]

You guys are arguing about the wrong thing.
The entire EV argument can be had on sustainability of the tech, meaning things like raw resources required, sourcing of, pollution generated, grid requriements, battery tech limitations, etc. These are all valid discussions.
But the entire premise of CO2 being some sort of a bogeyman has to stop. CO2 is plant food, CO2 does NOT cause global warming. There have been numerous studies published on this to prove it (Just look outside of mainstream media).
The entire CO2 discussion needs to stop!

 

[MurphyGuy]

You guys are arguing about the wrong thing.
The entire EV argument can be had on sustainability of the tech, meaning things like raw resources required, sourcing of, pollution generated, grid requriements, battery tech limitations, etc. These are all valid discussions.
But the entire premise of CO2 being some sort of a bogeyman has to stop. CO2 is plant food, CO2 does NOT cause global warming. There have been numerous studies published on this to prove it (Just look outside of mainstream media).
The entire CO2 discussion needs to stop!

The only people arguing are the uneducated idiots.. almost all of which are so ignorant they think magical invisible sky fairies are real.

At this point, I'm all for green energy just to put Russia in the hole.. In fact, I'll be writing my congressional representatives later this year to let them know my position on Russia.

We need to tell China they have to pick a side. Stop buying Russian oil now or we ban their products from the USA and the rest of the Europe.

Every time I see your pro-Russia, pro-Oil, pro-Putin posts, it just strengthens my resolve. Not many people write to their congressional representatives, but I do..

 

[aenyc]

Murphy, show a single Pro-Russia post that i posted. All of the links that i posted on Russian situation only show that Russia (And Putin's oligarchy) is playing the same game as the collective west, and everything they do is against Russian people (And also Ukranian people, and EU/US middle class).

You are discrediting yourself. (Idk if thats even possible, all of your posts all all over the place without any coherent logic in them)

I am very much against Putin. I am also against Zelenski, Biden, Trump or any other sold out politician.
I am pro personal liberty and pro letting everyone live and let live without forcing anyone into idiotic "mandates" on anything.

 

[Checkthisout]

The only people arguing are the uneducated idiots.. almost all of which are so ignorant they think magical invisible sky fairies are real.

At this point, I'm all for green energy just to put Russia in the hole.. In fact, I'll be writing my congressional representatives later this year to let them know my position on Russia.

We need to tell China they have to pick a side. Stop buying Russian oil now or we ban their products from the USA and the rest of the Europe.

Every time I see your pro-Russia, pro-Oil, pro-Putin posts, it just strengthens my resolve. Not many people write to their congressional representatives, but I do..

Murphy all dolled-up un his tinfoil hat, seeing Russians everywhere.

I can't believe you have actually fallen for that shit.

I think to myself "nobody is really that stupid, the dems just need an excuse to attack, much like having a friend shove someone you don't like into you so you have an excuse to fight"

Democrat followers really are that stupid.

 

[Checkthisout]

Murphy, show a single Pro-Russia post that i posted.
You are discrediting yourself.
I am very much against Putin. I am also against Zelenski, Biden, Trump or any other sold out politician.
I am pro personal liberty and pro letting everyone live and let live without forcing anyone into idiotic "mandates" on anything.

He is actually that dumb. It's projection though as he us harboring and mating with the enemy in his house.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Murphy all dolled-up un his tinfoil hat, seeing Russians everywhere.

I can't believe you have actually fallen for that shit.

I think to myself "nobody is really that stupid, the dems just need an excuse to attack, much like having a friend shove someone you don't like into you so you have an excuse to fight"

Democrat followers really are that stupid.

You're not just a Russian troll, you're an incompetent Russian troll since you outed yourself.

Go ahead, try to explain this:

 

[MurphyGuy]

Murphy, show a single Pro-Russia post that i posted. All of the links that i posted on Russian situation only show that Russia (And Putin's oligarchy) is playing the same game as the collective west, and everything they do is against Russian people (And also Ukranian people, and EU/US middle class).

You are discrediting yourself. (Idk if thats even possible, all of your posts all all over the place without any coherent logic in them)

I am very much against Putin. I am also against Zelenski, Biden, Trump or any other sold out politician.
I am pro personal liberty and pro letting everyone live and let live without forcing anyone into idiotic "mandates" on anything.

Every post you make is pro-Russia, pro-Oil, pro-Putin.

 

[Checkthisout]

You're not just a Russian troll, you're an incompetent Russian troll since you outed yourself.

Go ahead, try to explain this:

View attachment 165033

When my chickens/turkeys/guinea hens get frightened, they sort of "get stuck" in afraid mode for a spell a spell but eventually get the last sputters of fear out and sort of "reset" back to normal.

Right now you're just "stuck" and need some time before you'll "reset".

 

[aenyc]

Every post you make is pro-Russia, pro-Oil, pro-Putin.

Pictures or it did not happen.

 

[MurphyGuy]

When my chickens/turkeys/guinea hens get frightened, they sort of "get stuck" in afraid mode for a spell a spell but eventually get the last sputters of fear out and sort of "reset" back to normal.

Right now you're just "stuck" and need some time before you'll "reset".

You can't explain this can you? You outed yourself as the Russian Toll I thought you were...