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The all allusive 100% SoC - Is it fiction ?

Earlier in this thread, someone explained the voltage disparity you are seeing.
I forget who, but they explained the differences when measured at various points in the victron ecosystem
Yes, I understand the cause of some of the variance, such as cable losses and anomaly’s of certain reporting thresholds etc…. But when my measured pack terminal voltage is more than 3 Volts higher than the BMS recorded pack voltage, I don’t understand…. Or why the preset max charge voltage within the BMS is offset by a constant +0.5 volts when it’s reported to the Cerbo. These disparities remain unexplained so far…. But I’m here to learn if you could help shed some light ??
 
The 3V and .5V variations are not normal.

Recommend you setup a custom widget reporting all battery voltages and current:

1695910930362.png

Pick a voltage during a low utilization/charging period and record the following:

Battery terminals with voltmeter:
Inverter terminals with voltmeter:
BMS voltage:
Cerbo (gateway) voltage:
MPPT voltage:
MPPT current:
VE.Bus voltage:
Battery current/direction:

The goal is to compare the various voltages and find the outliers. As I recall, with that type of battery, SVS is forced off, so all devices use their own measured voltage.
 
The 3V and .5V variations are not normal.

Recommend you setup a custom widget reporting all battery voltages and current:

Pick a voltage during a low utilization/charging period and record the following:

Battery terminals with voltmeter:
Inverter terminals with voltmeter:
BMS voltage:
Cerbo (gateway) voltage:
MPPT voltage:
MPPT current:
VE.Bus voltage:
Battery current/direction:

The goal is to compare the various voltages and find the outliers. As I recall, with that type of battery, SVS is forced off, so all devices use their own measured voltage.

That looks like an amazing diagnostic tool..... I'll set one up tonight at work if all goes well. Did you have any trouble setting the Y axis ranges ?

This info should contrast some of the disparity's nicely and give an indication of where to have a closer look.

On first blush.... What to you suspect may be the culprit ?


p.s. I may need to invest in a smart shunt :cool:
 
That looks like an amazing diagnostic tool..... I'll set one up tonight at work if all goes well. Did you have any trouble setting the Y axis ranges ?

Nope. It overlayed them on the same scale.

This info should contrast some of the disparity's nicely and give an indication of where to have a closer look.

Hopefully!

On first blush.... What to you suspect may be the culprit ?

Can't say. The .5V offset is likely a comm issue between battery and BMS - a mismatch in the device driver for Venus OS or something like that.

3V is nuts. I've seen an MPPT report +3V above actual even at rest. It was a faulty MPPT.

p.s. I may need to invest in a smart shunt :cool:

What I'm not showing is a BMV-702 I have in the system as well. It generally agrees very well with the BMS, and my system allows to share the BMS voltage across all devices, so the MPPT, inverter, etc., are reporting the same voltage - why my chart shows negligible disparity (0.02V) across all voltages... :)
 
Still no 100% SoC.... :cry: However battery is now top balanced and doing what a nice LiFePo4 should do.
After top balancing the pack for over 10 hours the DVCC & BMS Max Charge Voltage was returned down from 56.8v to 55.2v
Cell Delta went from >150mv to 10mv (over 32x cells) so I'm guessing that's a good thing :giggle:
This is my first full charge cycle since top balancing...... What do ppl think ? Does it look ok ?

I'm guessing this may be one of those BMS qirks that require a Cell OV Protect (this battery is defaulted at 3.75v OVP) for it to transmit 100% SoC
I have recently seen a few video's on this with some seplos BMS's...... Crazy ?
Normal Charge Cycle - VRM Cell Delta.jpg

Normal Charge Cycle - VRM Batt V.jpg
 
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@sunshine_eggo Hooraah . . . Hit 100% SoC for over an hour today, and it brought up some interesting questions I'm sure you can explain to help my learning curve ? I appreciate your input and guidance so far.. ?

Changes made & Questions >>
Over the last few sunny days I spent much time top balancing both parallel 48v packs (cabled one at a time to the system), but am still concerned about the voltage difference between them when in parallel. Is it completely normal to have around 0.5v difference at varying states of charge / discharge ? (I have incuded some BMS pics and Cell Delt Data)

There appears to be a massive increase in the voltage disparity towards the end of the morning charge cycle about when the current curve intersects with the voltage curve as the current tappers off. (See graphs) Is this normal ?

I also tried swapping the configurtion around making the slave > master and this is how I eventually achieved a great Cell Delta under 10mv/cell between all 32 cells. But the independant battery voltages still stray apart as above.

I kept all voltages set at 55.00v within the BMS, Cerbo CVL and DVCC but found I couldn't change the 'Fixed Solar Offset' of 0.4v as it appears hard coded into the Victron algorithm. (see charge graphs & pics) However, I'm still getting a voltage disparity at various times in the cycle where the CerboGX voltage is much higher than the actual BMS reported Battery Voltage, which is also higher than the voltage recorded within the BMS itself. (See BMS snapshots) Is this just due to cable losses ?

Finally, I noticed a very sudden SoC increase of 30% in a small time period..... I have no idea whatk that's about ? (see SoC graph)

Thanks again for your help, and the custom widgets are very helpful ?
 

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More Console Settings :)
 

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@sunshine_eggo Hooraah . . . Hit 100% SoC for over an hour today, and it brought up some interesting questions I'm sure you can explain to help my learning curve ? I appreciate your input and guidance so far.. ?

Glad to hear it.

Changes made & Questions >>
Over the last few sunny days I spent much time top balancing both parallel 48v packs (cabled one at a time to the system), but am still concerned about the voltage difference between them when in parallel. Is it completely normal to have around 0.5v difference at varying states of charge / discharge ? (I have incuded some BMS pics and Cell Delt Data)

I see the MP is reporting 0.5V higher than the BMS. This is likely an error of some sort. Recommend you take the system offline briefly or pick a moment where currents are very low and record the voltage reported by all devices and then take a direct measurement at the appropriate terminals.

Inverter reports:
Inverter terminals measure:

MPPT reports:
MPPT terminals measure:

Battery X reports:
Battery X measures:

Worth noting that voltage disparities will scale with current. The Pylontech driver that your batteries use do NOT share the BMS voltage with the rest of the system. I have no idea why, but it's the stupidest thing ever.

There appears to be a massive increase in the voltage disparity towards the end of the morning charge cycle about when the current curve intersects with the voltage curve as the current tappers off. (See graphs) Is this normal ?

I also tried swapping the configurtion around making the slave > master and this is how I eventually achieved a great Cell Delta under 10mv/cell between all 32 cells. But the independant battery voltages still stray apart as above.

I'm seeing the max/min cell value diverge by about .12V at the end of the charge cycle. This is sign of mild to moderate cell imbalance. Note that voltage does not correlate to balance below 3.40V. Even imbalanced batteries will typically have very low voltage deviation below 3.40V.

1696826232014.png

I kept all voltages set at 55.00v within the BMS, Cerbo CVL and DVCC but found I couldn't change the 'Fixed Solar Offset' of 0.4v as it appears hard coded into the Victron algorithm. (see charge graphs & pics) However, I'm still getting a voltage disparity at various times in the cycle where the CerboGX voltage is much higher than the actual BMS reported Battery Voltage, which is also higher than the voltage recorded within the BMS itself. (See BMS snapshots) Is this just due to cable losses ?

Each device takes its own measurement. The device's measurement will be influenced by any current is it supplying or drawing. AC charging will always show a higher battery voltage than the open circuit voltage measurement of the BMS.

That's why it's important to confirm all measurements under low and preferably 0A current.

1696826726039.png


At the indicated point, current is 0A, and the deviation between MPPT/MP and BMS is only about 0.1V. This is likely just an inherent error in voltage measurement that you can't avoid. As current increases, the voltage discrepancy increases. This is Ohms law in action, but you should confirm the measurements with a separate meter and check that all connections are of high quality and properly torqued.

Lastly, consult the MP manual. There is a V-sense pair of leads that's intended to act as a direct open circuit voltage measurement the MP uses instead of what it sees at the power leads influenced by current.

Finally, I noticed a very sudden SoC increase of 30% in a small time period..... I have no idea whatk that's about ? (see SoC graph)

The BMS counts current in and out. It's inexact. It has additional criteria to determine that it's fully charged regardless of what the count says. The BMS decided that regardless of where it was in its count, the cell voltage met the full charge criteria.

1696826248328.png

With improved balance and regular charging to 100%, these jumps should diminish and possibly disappear altogether unless you go for an extended period without full charges.

Thanks again for your help, and the custom widgets are very helpful ?

(y)
 
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