The End of the World finally happened! AC/DC Mini Split?

[Sundog33]

Why I built my emergency backup Solar System paid off.

Back on April 1st my Town in New Jersey experienced a rare Tornado. I was in my attached garage at the time. It sounded like a commuter plane had broken the sky and coming down... you know that sound. Then battering winds and crashing as the tree across the street took down 5 telephone poles like dominoes. My whole house started buzzing as one of the transformer poles shorted out.. and then Bam! Sparks shot out of my breaker box like 3 feet and 2 light bulbs in the ceiling shot right out of the sockets! Very crazy, my Daughter and Wife were huddled in the Den screaming and crying and I was almost ready to get everyone under the crawlspace, as we have no basement, but the worst of it was over. 3 of my own trees down, one totaling one of my cars. downspouts and siding ripped off the house.

I was out of power for a week while they repaired the electrical lines and had an electrician replace my fried breaker box. but with the help of my little Lithium 200ah/200wPV Solar setup I really didn't skip a beat. We we able to watch TV, charge phones/ipads and have lights. All the necessities that keep you from going crazy like my neighbor. At night with the neighborhood completely dark he could see my lights and TV thru my Sunroom into my Den and approached me asking if I had Solar and what was i watching? DVD's since the Cable and Internet was down... He said his Wife was going nuts with no TV. I told him no. See those antennas on my roof. I'm watching local TV. He had no clue antennas still worked.

Anyway I realized the only things you really need. Unfortunately I couldn't get my 1000w pure wave inverter to run my fridge. It would start to run and the then stop in like 30 seconds, but in my situation we ordered out for a week and put ice in the fridge for cold beer.
Now luckily this was April, no need for Heat or AC.... So this brings me to why I'm sharing this. The other Necessity - AIR CONDITIONING. If this had been in the thick of Summer it would have been a completely different story. I wouldn't have been able to stay at my house.

There is no Forum Tab for AC/DC SOLAR MINI SPLIT. I picked one up from EG4 after watching Will review it, but maybe I jumped the gun. I like the fact that its super efficient not coming from a battery DC to an inverter AC and goes directly into the Compressor from the Panels but, I'm thinking I'm not going to use it for the Heat part, just for AC, so besides from Summer it will be 1200watts of wasted, untapped Panel power sitting there.

My question is:
1) What can i BUY that can easily switch the Solar Panel output from being directed to the EG4 Mini Split to say a new "EG4Solar Battery" setup.
2). Whats the cheapest new "EG4Solar Battery" Setup can I buy that would seamlessly interface with the 1200watts of Panels in series.
In a perfect world I'd like to just turn a switch and shut off my Mini Split for the winter and run a Solar battery System. Am I dreaming? I haven't bought the Panels yet so, the answer will guide me to whether I will use the DC/Mini Split part of it at all .... or just focus on building a better Battery Bank system down the road, that may require me to buy more than 1200watts of Panels if I expect it to run the AC?

Thanks for any Help

 

[wme]

Invest in a Kill a watt meter and see what your refer draws power wise

 

[Mattb4]

Simplest, but requires someone to do it, is 2 DC breakers from your PV. You bring PV into one (line) and jumper to the other breaker (line). The load side of breakers feed either your A/C or a SCC. Simple matter of switching one off and the other on.

 

[timselectric]

Someone should really come out with a DC transfer switch.

 

[Sundog33]

Simplest, but requires someone to do it, is 2 DC breakers from your PV. You bring PV into one (line) and jumper to the other breaker (line). The load side of breakers feed either your A/C or a SCC. Simple matter of switching one off and the other on.

Yep, that would work. Use a splitter from the Breakers. Very good.
So if I am only running series it will only multiply the Volts correct. If i have say 6 - 200watt panels in series it would only stay like 8amps?
I never see breakers that low? Am I thinking wrong?

Oh I did find it:

DC Miniature Circuit Breaker, 2 Pole 1000V 10 Amp Isolator for Solar PV System, Thermal Magnetic Trip, DIN Rail Mount, Chtaixi DC Disconnect Switch C10​

 

[Zwy]

Why I built my emergency backup Solar System paid off.

Back on April 1st my Town in New Jersey experienced a rare Tornado. I was in my attached garage at the time. It sounded like a commuter plane had broken the sky and coming down... you know that sound. Then battering winds and crashing as the tree across the street took down 5 telephone poles like dominoes. My whole house started buzzing as one of the transformer poles shorted out.. and then Bam! Sparks shot out of my breaker box like 3 feet and 2 light bulbs in the ceiling shot right out of the sockets! Very crazy, my Daughter and Wife were huddled in the Den screaming and crying and I was almost ready to get everyone under the crawlspace, as we have no basement, but the worst of it was over. 3 of my own trees down, one totaling one of my cars. downspouts and siding ripped off the house.

I was out of power for a week while they repaired the electrical lines and had an electrician replace my fried breaker box. but with the help of my little Lithium 200ah/200wPV Solar setup I really didn't skip a beat. We we able to watch TV, charge phones/ipads and have lights. All the necessities that keep you from going crazy like my neighbor. At night with the neighborhood completely dark he could see my lights and TV thru my Sunroom into my Den and approached me asking if I had Solar and what was i watching? DVD's since the Cable and Internet was down... He said his Wife was going nuts with no TV. I told him no. See those antennas on my roof. I'm watching local TV. He had no clue antennas still worked.

Anyway I realized the only things you really need. Unfortunately I couldn't get my 1000w pure wave inverter to run my fridge. It would start to run and the then stop in like 30 seconds, but in my situation we ordered out for a week and put ice in the fridge for cold beer.
Now luckily this was April, no need for Heat or AC.... So this brings me to why I'm sharing this. The other Necessity - AIR CONDITIONING. If this had been in the thick of Summer it would have been a completely different story. I wouldn't have been able to stay at my house.

There is no Forum Tab for AC/DC SOLAR MINI SPLIT. I picked one up from EG4 after watching Will review it, but maybe I jumped the gun. I like the fact that its super efficient not coming from a battery DC to an inverter AC and goes directly into the Compressor from the Panels but, I'm thinking I'm not going to use it for the Heat part, just for AC, so besides from Summer it will be 1200watts of wasted, untapped Panel power sitting there.

My question is:
1) What can i BUY that can easily switch the Solar Panel output from being directed to the EG4 Mini Split to say a new "EG4Solar Battery" setup.
2). Whats the cheapest new "EG4Solar Battery" Setup can I buy that would seamlessly interface with the 1200watts of Panels in series.
In a perfect world I'd like to just turn a switch and shut off my Mini Split for the winter and run a Solar battery System. Am I dreaming? I haven't bought the Panels yet so, the answer will guide me to whether I will use the DC/Mini Split part of it at all .... or just focus on building a better Battery Bank system down the road, that may require me to buy more than 1200watts of Panels if I expect it to run the AC?

Thanks for any Help

I've had my 12K BTU 240V Pioneer floor mount mini split running almost non stop since I installed it a few months ago.

I'm still trying to understand why the need for a DC powered mini split when I have so much excess power this time of year that we can't use it all. Currently we are very dry and I water the garden, some new grass seeding due to utility line upgrades and 20 young trees in my windbreak at least every 3 days, 2 days if it hits close to 100F again. The well pump is cycling all day long. My bank is always full by the end of the day. I had been running on 1/2 of the array, then 3/4 of the array until a week ago. Yet still had plenty of reserve without a need for a DC powered mini split.

Even with the efficiency loss converting to the batteries and then to the inverters, it still wouldn't make a separate PV array a smart decision for me. I've watched the thread with the EG4 unit, clouds roll in, unit stops working and doesn't automatically turn on. All this for a few hundred watts? Wouldn't it be a better idea to just use that PV to charge more batteries and use the power where it is needed?

For my truck camper, a DC powered mini split might be a good idea. I already purchased a 120V unit so a DC unit isn't in the future. But it would require a unit run off 24V which I have yet to see anything with a decent COP in 24V. Running off PV would probably not be possible with less than 1Kw of PV on the roof.

 

[G00SE]

I've had my 12K BTU 240V Pioneer floor mount mini split running almost non stop since I installed it a few months ago.

I'm still trying to understand why the need for a DC powered mini split

I’m not yet to the point where my structure is dried in, but this has been an internal curiosity for me and I’m glad you brought it up.
I see the potential benefit, and maybe it’s simply not for my design/intent but really better for those with small systems or dedicated to particular functions.
For a whole house system though idk why I wouldn’t just tie that part of array into my main system and keep that juice in the batteries. It can be defacto solar only if one just runs a timer on the unit to not run after sunset/before sunrise

 

[Sundog33]

I've had my 12K BTU 240V Pioneer floor mount mini split running almost non stop since I installed it a few months ago.

I'm still trying to understand why the need for a DC powered mini split when I have so much excess power this time of year that we can't use it all. Currently we are very dry and I water the garden, some new grass seeding due to utility line upgrades and 20 young trees in my windbreak at least every 3 days, 2 days if it hits close to 100F again. The well pump is cycling all day long. My bank is always full by the end of the day. I had been running on 1/2 of the array, then 3/4 of the array until a week ago. Yet still had plenty of reserve without a need for a DC powered mini split.

Even with the efficiency loss converting to the batteries and then to the inverters, it still wouldn't make a separate PV array a smart decision for me. I've watched the thread with the EG4 unit, clouds roll in, unit stops working and doesn't automatically turn on. All this for a few hundred watts? Wouldn't it be a better idea to just use that PV to charge more batteries and use the power where it is needed?

For my truck camper, a DC powered mini split might be a good idea. I already purchased a 120V unit so a DC unit isn't in the future. But it would require a unit run off 24V which I have yet to see anything with a decent COP in 24V. Running off PV would probably not be possible with less than 1Kw of PV on the roof.

I hear ya. It sounded like a great idea when I first heard it. I had not heard that they sometimes have problems switching from AC to DC. I was under the impression these units always use a little AC and balance themselves out for clouds.

But I am a Boy Scout, not a Solar extremist. My plan was always for emergency, not for everyday use. That's why my little 200ah system - that spends its life just running my fish tank and some low draw lights waiting patiently for an outage. I always thought it takes so much time to recoup your payout from a full blown system.
The reason it appealed to me also, was I didn't have to think about power. When to use it - high/low banks. With just the panels it just takes it or doesnt and then the AC kicks in. $1200 bucks for Mini Split / $2000 bucks for Panels, very easy to makeup when your putting out $300 a month in the Summer months.

But like I say if I do go this route then I will upgrade my system to use when not AC-ing.

 

[timselectric]

That was my only issue. I don't want to dedicate panels to just one appliance. When it's not running, the panels are just going to waste.
I chose the 48v Hotspot because it gives me the best of both worlds. It doesn't require any inverting capacity. And if my system goes down and requires significant work on my part. At least I won't be sweating, while I work. As long as I have batteries.

 

[NCislander]

That was my only issue. I don't want to dedicate panels to just one appliance. When it's not running, the panels are just going to waste.
I chose the 48v Hotspot because it gives me the best of both worlds. It doesn't require any inverting capacity. And if my system goes down and requires significant work on my part. At least I won't be sweating, while I work. As long as I have batteries.

You have batteries, and batteries, and batteries. No worries on battery power.

 

[Sundog33]

Yep. I hope I didnt insult anyone with that post. I wish I could be a Solar Extremist. Its just a matter of space and money.

I agree its hard to dedicate the panels after I thought about it. But If i can pay for them quick with money saved. Then I can go and upgrade my Battery system without feeling guilty about the kids collage fund. Then build a switch over as Matt said when not in use.

 

[Zwy]

I hear ya. It sounded like a great idea when I first heard it. I had not heard that they sometimes have problems switching from AC to DC. I was under the impression these units always use a little AC and balance themselves out for clouds.

Read this thread and he edited the original post for links to topics. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/help-me-install-3-eg4-mini-split-solar-heat-pumps.62338/

There was discussion these do have a parasitic load off AC. That needs to be factored in.

But I am a Boy Scout, not a Solar extremist. My plan was always for emergency, not for everyday use. That's why my little 200ah system - that spends its life just running my fish tank and some low draw lights waiting patiently for an outage. I always thought it takes so much time to recoup your payout from a full blown system.

Once you have a larger system, you will probably realize it should have been installed earlier.

The reason it appealed to me also, was I didn't have to think about power. When to use it - high/low banks. With just the panels it just takes it or doesnt and then the AC kicks in. $1200 bucks for Mini Split / $2000 bucks for Panels, very easy to makeup when your putting out $300 a month in the Summer months.

But like I say if I do go this route then I will upgrade my system to use when not AC-ing.

 

[Sundog33]

Read this thread and he edited the original post for links to topics. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/help-me-install-3-eg4-mini-split-solar-heat-pumps.62338/

There was discussion these do have a parasitic load off AC. That needs to be factored in.



Once you have a larger system, you will probably realize it should have been installed earlier.

Lots of good info on that Post. Thanks. I have to get myself motivated to start. Nothing to it but to do it, I always tell myself. I actually bought a Goodman 2ton regular AC and Gas Heater online. They dropped it in my driveway and with the help of my neighbor with a sedaline torch I installed it. My brother-in-law thought I was nuts, but still going strong since 2006. Fear of the unknown is what stops people from doing stuff.
I paid $1700 bucks back then, when people were charging $6000 grand to install.

As far as a Larger System. Its right for some. But from a financial perspective not for all. I just cracked 60 years old. I don't have 20 some years of life to get to a break even point. In April my gas and electric bill is only $125 with probably $50 in actual electric use. The main draw on a home is the air conditioning bumping up my bill around $300 in summer. If I can put a big dent in my AC charges and save say $150 a month in summer thats real progress in paying off a $3000 mini split system. Were talking like 5 year payoff.

Now lets add say just another $3000 grand for a Larger System. Knowing that this extra power your creating you can even use because your only using $50 bucks worth of power some months.... see were I'm going.

Secondly, as I stated before my Boyscout Mentality, I always like to be prepared for an emergency. I was listening to this Congressman saying I'm all for electric vehicles, I own one, but when you talk about changing the entire Government fleet of cars to electric by 2025 where is all this power going to come from? With charging one car equal to running 30 refrigerators you are going to crash the Grid with 5000 cars plug in at once.

I do believe major power outages are coming. Back to my original Post "the only things you really need" temporarily anyway is TV, Phone charge, Lights and... "Air Conditioning". So even though I talk about it here. This Mini Split isn't financially motivated, but Emergency motivated. Now, If the Grid goes down completely for months or more, you wont have to worry about power because the World would have turned into Shit.

 

[Mattb4]

...

I do believe major power outages are coming. Back to my original Post "the only things you really need" temporarily anyway is TV, Phone charge, Lights and... "Air Conditioning". So even though I talk about it here. This Mini Split isn't financially motivated, but Emergency motivated. Now, If the Grid goes down completely for months or more, you wont have to worry about power because the World would have turned into Shit.

Bit of a tangent but the likelihood of a major grid power outages is much less likely IMO than the likelihood of major grid power prices going through the roof and shortages happening. The people in charge know that the best way to make people conserve is to make something expensive and hard to obtain.

Air conditioning is a modern luxury and if they succeed in shutting down all the coal and natural gas generation it likely will become rare for the common folks to use. Back when I was young getting a car that had A/C meant special order and a much higher cost. I did not get one with it until I was 40 years old and had moved to the South back in the 90's.

 

[Zwy]

Bit of a tangent but the likelihood of a major grid power outages is much less likely IMO than the likelihood of major grid power prices going through the roof and shortages happening. The people in charge know that the best way to make people conserve is to make something expensive and hard to obtain.

Part of the reason I installed my system was I can see energy costs rising. Utility companies have been increasing the daily charge around here and leaving rates the same so they can claim rates haven't risen. Throw in the surcharges per kwh and sure, base rate is the same but the actual cost per Kwh used is higher.

OP says he is 60 years old, it would be a great time to install a home system. I'm 57 this year, I figure I might pass away before a major overhaul of the system is needed.

Air conditioning is a modern luxury and if they succeed in shutting down all the coal and natural gas generation it likely will become rare for the common folks to use. Back when I was young getting a car that had A/C meant special order and a much higher cost. I did not get one with it until I was 40 years old and had moved to the South back in the 90's.

 

[G00SE]

Yep. I hope I didnt insult anyone with that post. I wish I could be a Solar Extremist. Its just a matter of space and money.

I agree its hard to dedicate the panels after I thought about it. But If i can pay for them quick with money saved. Then I can go and upgrade my Battery system without feeling guilty about the kids collage fund. Then build a switch over as Matt said when not in use.

Different needs for everyone for sure. And the beauty of this group. So many different design types available to read through.
I don’t think anyone felt insulted
?

 

[n2aws]

Why I built my emergency backup Solar System paid off.

Back on April 1st my Town in New Jersey experienced a rare Tornado. I was in my attached garage at the time. It sounded like a commuter plane had broken the sky and coming down... you know that sound. Then battering winds and crashing as the tree across the street took down 5 telephone poles like dominoes. My whole house started buzzing as one of the transformer poles shorted out.. and then Bam! Sparks shot out of my breaker box like 3 feet and 2 light bulbs in the ceiling shot right out of the sockets! Very crazy, my Daughter and Wife were huddled in the Den screaming and crying and I was almost ready to get everyone under the crawlspace, as we have no basement, but the worst of it was over. 3 of my own trees down, one totaling one of my cars. downspouts and siding ripped off the house.

I was out of power for a week while they repaired the electrical lines and had an electrician replace my fried breaker box. but with the help of my little Lithium 200ah/200wPV Solar setup I really didn't skip a beat. We we able to watch TV, charge phones/ipads and have lights. All the necessities that keep you from going crazy like my neighbor. At night with the neighborhood completely dark he could see my lights and TV thru my Sunroom into my Den and approached me asking if I had Solar and what was i watching? DVD's since the Cable and Internet was down... He said his Wife was going nuts with no TV. I told him no. See those antennas on my roof. I'm watching local TV. He had no clue antennas still worked.

Anyway I realized the only things you really need. Unfortunately I couldn't get my 1000w pure wave inverter to run my fridge. It would start to run and the then stop in like 30 seconds, but in my situation we ordered out for a week and put ice in the fridge for cold beer.
Now luckily this was April, no need for Heat or AC.... So this brings me to why I'm sharing this. The other Necessity - AIR CONDITIONING. If this had been in the thick of Summer it would have been a completely different story. I wouldn't have been able to stay at my house.

There is no Forum Tab for AC/DC SOLAR MINI SPLIT. I picked one up from EG4 after watching Will review it, but maybe I jumped the gun. I like the fact that its super efficient not coming from a battery DC to an inverter AC and goes directly into the Compressor from the Panels but, I'm thinking I'm not going to use it for the Heat part, just for AC, so besides from Summer it will be 1200watts of wasted, untapped Panel power sitting there.

My question is:
1) What can i BUY that can easily switch the Solar Panel output from being directed to the EG4 Mini Split to say a new "EG4Solar Battery" setup.
2). Whats the cheapest new "EG4Solar Battery" Setup can I buy that would seamlessly interface with the 1200watts of Panels in series.
In a perfect world I'd like to just turn a switch and shut off my Mini Split for the winter and run a Solar battery System. Am I dreaming? I haven't bought the Panels yet so, the answer will guide me to whether I will use the DC/Mini Split part of it at all .... or just focus on building a better Battery Bank system down the road, that may require me to buy more than 1200watts of Panels if I expect it to run the AC?

Thanks for any Help

I have a few conflicting opinions on this. I'll mention a few below, so others can make an informed decision for their particular use-cases.


I went solar + batteries because hurricanes. a few months ago I was without grid for 9 days, and in 2004 I was without for 21 days.

I like the idea of the AC/DC minisplits for those just getting into solar. But! in my opinion.. for most people that are already doing solar+battery, it's more efficient to use those panels to charge the batteries, and run the minisplit from AC current. That way, even when the AC isn't running, the panels are still harvesting power.

That said.. There are edge cases where it may make sense even when you already have solar+batteries. Ie, your battery is undersized to run your critical loads + the new AC load. or, if you're grid-tied, and the utility has a limit to the amount of power you can "sell" or a limit to the size of system you can have connected to grid (ie, here.. FPL limits us to systems of 10kw, or we need to carry 1 million dollars of liability insurance.

minisplits ARE super energy efficient, and is likely my next large purchase. I'm debating between getting an AC/DC and just not hooking up the DC, unless we get into an extended outage situation. It may be nice to have a couple of my portable/camping panels able to be deployed in the yard quickly in a case like that.

One final thought.. Even in florida summers.. when without power for 9 days, we got away with running a single ceiling fan in the living room (on high), and turning it off when we weren't in there. air movement alone can make a significant difference to comfort levels. Something for others to consider before going with a minisplt for outage purposes.

 

[Supervstech]

I have to wonder…
How would a dedicated mppt controller respond to this situation…

Panels connected to BOTH the eg4 minisplit, AND the mppt controller…

Wouldn’t the mppt respond to the solar when he minisplit kicked on like clouds passing over?
And ramp back up when the mini shuts down?

 

[Zwy]

I have to wonder…
How would a dedicated mppt controller respond to this situation…

Panels connected to BOTH the eg4 minisplit, AND the mppt controller…

Wouldn’t the mppt respond to the solar when he minisplit kicked on like clouds passing over?
And ramp back up when the mini shuts down?

You first.......

 

[Supervstech]

Hmmm. I may just do it to see…
Unless any solar experts could tell me how bad it could be.