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Time to Replace 2600AH Lead Acid battery bank !

Barbuda Cottages

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Mar 24, 2020
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Hello , I'm looking for some advice on Lifepo4 replacement for our 48 volt , 2600ah battery bank .

Our current solar system is 60 x 300 watt solar panels ( adding another 30 panels this summer ) , 4 outback flexmax 80 charge controllers , 4 x 24 volt 1300ah sealed battery banks ( paralleled and series for 48 volts ) , 4 outback fx 3600 watt Inverters , mate 3s, with a Kubota 20kw diesel generator . This system was purchased 2 years ago after our previous system was destroyed by hurricane Irma , and because of limited funds we ended up purchasing used lead acid batteries ( big mistake ). now this battery bank is failing to hold a proper charge so its time to replace .

We use between 1200-1600 Ah per day of power and have gone as high as 2000ah in a single day which is very rare .
I'm thinking of replacing the 2600ah lead acid with roughly 2000ah lithium to meet our immediate needs and from what I've read I should be able to add banks within the next 2 years if I take care of the original banks , I plan to follow Will's advice cycling between 20-80 % ?

Now to my question , I am not in a position to spend $80 thousand on a set of battle born batteries. I have been reading a lot of threads on making battery banks with purchased cells and BMS units . I've seen that the price of the 280ah cells have come way down ( $80 per cell ), is it advisable to purchase and build 7 banks ( 112 cells ) and feed all 7 banks to a positive and negative bus bar keeping in mind that I will need to expand this to 10 to 12 banks in the near future ? It would definitely help the wallet if this will work . I'm estimating I could be under the $15000 range for the 7 banks . If someone can let me know if this is a viable solution and if so could recommend a reputable supplier for the batteries from Alibaba , also a quality BMS for the 280ah batteries I would really appreciate any advice .

Thanks
 
Its come to light that charging to 100% is not really an issue per battle born engineers. So think 20%-100%. That should help quite a bit. As to building a large bank Ive never done it as im mobile so I will leave it for others.
 
Unlike LEAD or Variants a bit more planning is needed to properly parallel LFP to maintain a balance between the packs in the bank during discharge & charge. To that end I will AIM you at this doc from Victron: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf

Practicality & Cost. Are you aware that 1000AH LFP cells are available ? Before you look, SIT, take 3 deep & slow breaths and maybe have a doobie on hand to calm you down after seeing the price. (€ 1,104.25 List price @ GWL for Winstons {premium cells} ) 16X1000AH cells = 48V/1000AH so do the math and that's the HIGH Cost ! but it's good to know that cost. ($29K USD + BMS+S&H for the above) Remember that with LFP you also get 50% more useable AHrs compared to FLA and considerably longer lifespan too. ** Winstons are premium & expensive regardless of AH size.

Caution Alert too ! a 280AH cell weighs 5 Kilo's +/- 200g. The weight adds up fast and boy that does a number on Shipping ! Even moreso now as Couriers everywhere are gouging and adding assorted Pandemic Fees. So you have to look at the cost of S&H as well as the cost of the actual cells. S&H can tip the costing scale quickly.

From XUBA: Link to Xuba's 280AH single cell listing
  • 112 Pieces US $9,496.48
    Ship to United States by Express Seller's …
    US $ 5,543.40
  • Lead Time 15 days
  • Shipping time 18-25 days
Total US $15,039.88

Bottom Line is YES you can do 7 Packs to make One Bank with proper wiring & configuration.
Is this most efficient way of doing so ? Yes & No, Less cells is usually much more efficient and easier to manage as well BUT this offers additional Fault Tolerance & Fail Over protection too... It is always a set of compromises but you have to work out what is best for your application & installation.
 
Start on about page 18 for the bus bar question.


I absolutely do recommend doing a bus bar, or combiner box of some sort. I have experienced the advantage of it and the inconvenience of not having one.

The common point to join up the batteries to keeps all the batteries modular. Yes it does cost a fractional amount more in wiring and connectors.

It is worth it when you have one cell in your battery that needs attention.
 
Hi Barbuda, Depending on your situation once your shipping charges get to that level you might investigate shipping an entire 20ft container to yourself. What you don't fill with cells you can fill with kayaks, SUPs, and other items you can rent out or resell, including the container. Some Chinese shipping companies are very good at consolidating and making arrangements. The key, in my experience, is to not ship a partial (shared) container load - the port charges involved in breaking down the shipments are insane.
 
You may also want to look at 5 Batteries like this; 48v, 500Ah c/w BMS.

You can see other options at a Company like RJ Energy China

B5CCB3D7-5187-469B-8C92-52A5BB431F4A.png
 
Its come to light that charging to 100% is not really an issue per battle born engineers. So think 20%-100%. That should help quite a bit. As to building a large bank Ive never done it as im mobile so I will leave it for others.

Thanks for letting me know , gives me even more usable storage space .
 
Unlike LEAD or Variants a bit more planning is needed to properly parallel LFP to maintain a balance between the packs in the bank during discharge & charge. To that end I will AIM you at this doc from Victron: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf

Practicality & Cost. Are you aware that 1000AH LFP cells are available ? Before you look, SIT, take 3 deep & slow breaths and maybe have a doobie on hand to calm you down after seeing the price. (€ 1,104.25 List price @ GWL for Winstons {premium cells} ) 16X1000AH cells = 48V/1000AH so do the math and that's the HIGH Cost ! but it's good to know that cost. ($29K USD + BMS+S&H for the above) Remember that with LFP you also get 50% more useable AHrs compared to FLA and considerably longer lifespan too. ** Winstons are premium & expensive regardless of AH size.

Caution Alert too ! a 280AH cell weighs 5 Kilo's +/- 200g. The weight adds up fast and boy that does a number on Shipping ! Even moreso now as Couriers everywhere are gouging and adding assorted Pandemic Fees. So you have to look at the cost of S&H as well as the cost of the actual cells. S&H can tip the costing scale quickly.

From XUBA: Link to Xuba's 280AH single cell listing
  • 112 Pieces US $9,496.48
    Ship to United States by Express Seller's …
    US $ 5,543.40
  • Lead Time 15 days
  • Shipping time 18-25 days
Total US $15,039.88

Bottom Line is YES you can do 7 Packs to make One Bank with proper wiring & configuration.
Is this most efficient way of doing so ? Yes & No, Less cells is usually much more efficient and easier to manage as well BUT this offers additional Fault Tolerance & Fail Over protection too... It is always a set of compromises but you have to work out what is best for your application & installation.
Thanks for the info and links , the victron doc was very helpful .
I was aware that the larger 1000ah cells were available and yup I had to sit down after seeing the pricing for those . Seems that the price per Ah of lithium storage is much better with the cells up to the 280ah rate then get substantially higher once you pass that level . I would prefer to get larger cells if possible but unfortunately I'm on a tight budget as we were not expecting to replace batteries so quickly . So I hate to say this but I'm trying to get the best possible on a shoe string budget . But at the same time I don't want to make a mistake and say 2 years from now that I should have done it different .
I'm going to inquire with Xuba to find out shipping costs to the Caribbean , I did send our large generator from China two years ago and the price wasn't that bad , it just took forever to get here ( 3 months ) .
Any recommendations on a good quality BMS ? and will I need a balancer or is that part of the BMS ?
Thanks again !
 
Hi Barbuda, Depending on your situation once your shipping charges get to that level you might investigate shipping an entire 20ft container to yourself. What you don't fill with cells you can fill with kayaks, SUPs, and other items you can rent out or resell, including the container. Some Chinese shipping companies are very good at consolidating and making arrangements. The key, in my experience, is to not ship a partial (shared) container load - the port charges involved in breaking down the shipments are insane.
Thanks for the advice , great idea !
 
Start on about page 18 for the bus bar question.


I absolutely do recommend doing a bus bar, or combiner box of some sort. I have experienced the advantage of it and the inconvenience of not having one.

The common point to join up the batteries to keeps all the batteries modular. Yes it does cost a fractional amount more in wiring and connectors.

It is worth it when you have one cell in your battery that needs attention.
Thanks for the advice . From past experience it definitely makes it easier if somethings not right or needs attention .
 
Thanks for the info , I'm going to send them a request . have you had any experience dealing with this company ?
Nothing purchased, but multiple inquiries regarding various options to building the battery banks from 3.2v cells to the 200 Ah shown. Still trying to determine which way to go. For me, I am looking for a 20 year solution and basically like the look of these big finished batteries versus what I would end up making and how it looks! Also, do all the “math”. After adding in the cost of at least 2 BMS’s, battery box materials and cells, regardless which way I go, with shipping and import duties, I end up around 8-9,000 CDN to my door. So, leaning towards the Big Guys.
 
Thanks for the info and links , the victron doc was very helpful .
I was aware that the larger 1000ah cells were available and yup I had to sit down after seeing the pricing for those . Seems that the price per Ah of lithium storage is much better with the cells up to the 280ah rate then get substantially higher once you pass that level . I would prefer to get larger cells if possible but unfortunately I'm on a tight budget as we were not expecting to replace batteries so quickly . So I hate to say this but I'm trying to get the best possible on a shoe string budget . But at the same time I don't want to make a mistake and say 2 years from now that I should have done it different .
I'm going to inquire with Xuba to find out shipping costs to the Caribbean , I did send our large generator from China two years ago and the price wasn't that bad , it just took forever to get here ( 3 months ) .
Any recommendations on a good quality BMS ? and will I need a balancer or is that part of the BMS ?
Thanks again !
I have the Zuba's an am awaiting a Cell Charger before starting a test cycle on the actual cells themselves... Darn thing is now 2 weeks overdue. I do have confidence in them as others have purchased them, tested & they came out good. Amy Wan @ Zuba is a genuine treasure. Keep it simple as she still relies too much on the translator but is improving. Remember., tell her you are one of us from DIY SolarForum, ask for DOUBLE the amount of Bus Bars.

I use Chargery BMS and love'em, actually I'm presently correcting an englishysing the text and redoing the images plus adding several more. as well. For your application the BMS16T for the 48V 16 Cell packs. !! These use external relays rated to the specific amperage , they are good relay's but as Electo-Mechanical they are a tad heavy on power consumption. Craig is testing SSR's (Solid State Relays) and I am awaiting a new production batch with larger 10mm bolts & contact heat sinks which are just going to production, estimated to be complete for April 10-15 window. ** NOTE these have huge heat sinks, and I will be testing 240A & 500A sets in production mode.
Link to BMS16T: http://chargery.com/BMS16Pro.asp

See links in my signature for more information & details on Xuba, CHargery & more.
PS: Remember there is a significant time difference.
Xuba Single Cell listing:
 
Don't forget to purchase spares and have a checklist procedure for replacing a cell(s) and/or BMS('s)
 
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