Trophy Battery at 100% SOC ---> BAD

[photons2e-s]

Setup: off-grid Victron 250/60 MPPT, Multiplus 3000W inverter, Trophy 48V/100Ah (installed 11/2022)

Here is my problem --
To keep the inverter from having a “High DC Ripple” alarm and then shutdown, the battery cannot get to a self-reported 100% SOC.
When it does get to 100%, it disconnects itself, mostly, from loads and will not reconnect until the MPPT stops providing current to the inverter for loads. When the MPPT does not provide power (sundown) and when the current demand is high, the battery reconnects reliably, then the cycle repeats the next day until/if 100% is reached.
The battery does provide low current, sometimes, to the inverter before sundown, but not continuously, or at a high amount of current.
During this disconnected state, the voltage at the battery terminals (also have the MPPT and inverter at these studs) is higher than the V reported on the battery display by 1-4V depending on the load. In this disconnected state, if I cycle a space heater on/off, I get a high DC ripple alarm which can shutdown the inverter (wife gets mad).
On a day when the battery does not get to 100% or earlier in the day while the MPPT is charging, I can cycle the heater without the alarm and the voltages all match.
This problem happens with and without the CAN bus data cable plugged in, no matter what charging parameters are set in the MPPT.

The attached screenshot is from the Victron VRM which shows the voltage disparity (red curve is the reported Trophy V, blue is the actual V), power (middle graph where a load cycled, and the High DC alarm created.

Has anyone else experienced this with the Trophy?
Does this kind of situation occur with other batteries/BMSs?
Talking to the SOK and EG4 dealers, they have no issues like this with their products.

I've been in contact with Dan at Trophy about this.

Any guidance here would be appreciated.

 

[sunsurfer]

Does the alarm say "DC Ripple"? or is this an over voltage issue? Two different paths to solve your problem. Could be an issue with the inverter or DC coupling. A friend had a similar issue with a bad BMS on an EG4 batt.

 

[photons2e-s]

It is a "High DC Ripple" alarm caused by large voltage swings that the MPPT cannot maintain since the battery is not acting as a battery. So, bad BMS?

 

[sunsurfer]

It is a "High DC Ripple" alarm caused by large voltage swings that the MPPT cannot maintain since the battery is not acting as a battery. So, bad BMS?

So the BMS is high voltage disconnect and claims there is DC ripple?

My first question would be what is the voltage difference between the SCC and what the BMS sees. Not what you see at the terminals. If its close, I would see what specs are for that battery for high voltage disconnect. If its close to bulk/absorb, I would adjust the SCC down a little bit.

 

[photons2e-s]

The alarm is from the Victron Inverter. The BMS does not give an alarm.
There is no significant V drop between any terminals (SCC, inverter, battery terminals). Cables are only 1-2 ft. All connections are new, clean torqued.
I've tried lowering the charge V down to 55.5 from 56.8, same result.
Charge current is 20A max (100A allowed by battery) but this problem happens when there is 2-10A near full.
Also, once the battery gets into this bad state, its reported SOC does drop over the afternoon (to 90-95% ) and still stays in this bad state.

 

[sunsurfer]

The alarm is from the Victron Inverter. The BMS does not give an alarm.
There is no significant V drop between any terminals (SCC, inverter, battery terminals). Cables are only 1-2 ft. All connections are new, clean torqued.
I've tried lowering the charge V down to 55.5 from 56.8, same result.
Charge current is 20A max (100A allowed by battery) but this problem happens when there is 2-10A near full.
Also, once the battery gets into this bad state, its reported SOC does drop over the afternoon (to 90-95% ) and still stays in this bad state.

Sounds like you might have a BMS failure to me. Is your meter fast enough to watch how low voltage goes? Try a smaller load and see what happens. Can you see cell voltage via BMS software? Also, I am assuming you have ran the inverter with the SCC disconnected? Need to varify cells are in balance also could be an issue. This could be shown if the SCC disconnected solves the issue.

FYI, I have seen this issue with an EG4 battery so never trust a sales rep.

 

[photons2e-s]

Meter update is 0.5s or so. Smaller loads, <100W, drop V also but not as much.
The cells are all in balance when this issue happens, which I can see from the BMS.
I have run the system with the SCC breaker off, same issue persists.
So, you'd say it a problem with the BMS ? That was my conclusion.

Right, the sales guys do seem to hide the truth before the sale I've noticed.

So, how does the SOK battery do?

 

[sunsurfer]

Meter update is 0.5s or so. Smaller loads, <100W, drop V also but not as much.
The cells are all in balance when this issue happens, which I can see from the BMS.
I have run the system with the SCC breaker off, same issue persists.
So, you'd say it a problem with the BMS ? That was my conclusion.

Right, the sales guys do seem to hide the truth before the sale I've noticed.

So, how does the SOK battery do?

Some times you need a fast scope or meter to see what is really going on.

I have 8 206ah 12v SOKs. They have been good. You will need to get support on the phone and go through their troubleshooting instructions for warranty. I would have another inverter handy for testing if you have one. Also, some other loads. If it only happens with the victron inverter, they will be reluctant to blame the battery. You need to guide support once you narrow it down yourself.

 

[photons2e-s]

I dont see how this could be an issue with the inverter, just the battery. How could this be?

 

[sunsurfer]

I dont see how this could be an issue with the inverter, just the battery. How could this be?

It could be an inverter issue, only one way to find out. I don't think so but you should try another one. Support will likely blame the inverter so you might as well give it a go.

 

[photons2e-s]

I do not have another 48V inverter to test with but I would if I did.

 

[MisterSandals]

Just out of curiosity, what does your solar array consist of?

What does the orange line represent in your first pic?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

This sounds like a simple case of cell imbalance.

Set absorption to 3.45V/cell
Set float 0.1V below absorption
Set fixed absorption time of 3 hours

This should enable the batteries to approach 98%+ SoC and hold batteries at elevated voltage for cell balancing by the BMS.

Additionally, worth checking all battery to inverter connections for quality and proper torque, nothing pinched between terminals, etc.

That's the #1 cause of Victrons reporting excessive ripple.

 

[photons2e-s]

Just out of curiosity, what does your solar array consist of?

What does the orange line represent in your first pic?

6 x 450W Trina panels on the roof

The Alarm event/

 

[photons2e-s]

This sounds like a simple case of cell imbalance.

Set absorption to 3.45V/cell
Set float 0.1V below absorption
Set fixed absorption time of 3 hours

This should enable the batteries to approach 98%+ SoC and hold batteries at elevated voltage for cell balancing by the BMS.

Additionally, worth checking all battery to inverter connections for quality and proper torque, nothing pinched between terminals, etc.

That's the #1 cause of Victrons reporting excessive ripple.

All cells are being properly balanced as shown in the battery display.
All connections are good.

 

[MisterSandals]

6 x 450W Trina panels on the roof

41.25Voc? hopefully not all in series.

That would be 247.5Voc, mighty close to your SCCs limit.

Your spike happens late afternoon, 16:20. Does this coincide with the panels becoming shaded, even partially?

 

[photons2e-s]

41.25Voc? hopefully not all in series.

That would be 247.5Voc, mighty close to your SCCs limit.

Your spike happens late afternoon, 16:20. Does this coincide with the panels becoming shaded, even partially?

3s2p config, but thanks for checking!

 

[MisterSandals]

3s2p config, but thanks for checking!

My pleasure, this is an interesting puzzle.

If your ripple happens at the same time every day, go outside and look at your array at that time.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

All cells are being properly balanced as shown in the battery display.

All cells are within 0.03V with ALL cells at or above 3.45V? If not, you can't say they're balanced.

Even imbalanced cells will have almost all identical voltages below 3.40V.

 

[photons2e-s]

All cells are within 0.03V with ALL cells at or above 3.45V? If not, you can't say they're balanced.

Even imbalanced cells will have almost all identical voltages below 3.40V.

Yes, they get within 7mV or so when at 3.55V.

The issue does not depend on the time but rather when the battery first hits 100%SOC for the day. Its looking like a problem with the BMS not consistently delivering the current. The next step is to replace it with another. Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[Checkthisout]

How hard is it to bypass the BMS for testing purposes? Can you pull the cover off the batter and just wire directly to where the bms connects to the cells?

Looks like maybe a bad Fet in the BMS.

 

[Cmiller]

The issue does not depend on the time but rather when the battery first hits 100%SOC for the day. Its looking like a problem with the BMS not consistently delivering the current. The next step is to replace it with another. Thanks for the help everyone!

Any update on this? I have a customer asking about Trophy batteries and just found this thread. Did you end up changing BMS? And also how has the company been to work with on replacement parts? Is their warranty as good as they make it to be?

My first thoughts on this were also cell imbalances, but the other things that could factor in is the fact that the Trophy batteries can throttle charging current internally. If the BMS were throttling charging current, that could cause "surface voltages" on the inverter and SCC to show higher than expected/ higher than the internal battery voltages....

 

[Lt.Dan]

Any update on this? I have a customer asking about Trophy batteries and just found this thread. Did you end up changing BMS? And also how has the company been to work with on replacement parts? Is their warranty as good as they make it to be?

My first thoughts on this were also cell imbalances, but the other things that could factor in is the fact that the Trophy batteries can throttle charging current internally. If the BMS were throttling charging current, that could cause "surface voltages" on the inverter and SCC to show higher than expected/ higher than the internal battery voltages....

(Most) Trophy Batteries use the Seplos BMS, which is widely popular on this forum. The problem has to do with the only way to get a Seplos BMS to calibrate to 100% SOC, is you have to hit a HVD.

Settings can be changed in the BMS "Battery Monitor" software to help mitigate this. Reaching out to Trophy Battery is your best bet.

 

[Cmiller]

(Most) Trophy Batteries use the Seplos BMS, which is widely popular on this forum. The problem has to do with the only way to get a Seplos BMS to calibrate to 100% SOC, is you have to hit a HVD.

Settings can be changed in the BMS "Battery Monitor" software to help mitigate this. Reaching out to Trophy Battery is your best bet.

Got it. That makes sense. Thanks for the info!

 

[InTheHills]

I've been in contact with Dan at Trophy about this.

@photons2e-s
What was the outcome of this situation?