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UTILIZING GRID TIE INVERTER OFF GRID - $100 REWARD FOR SOLUTION

Hedges said:
The AIO thinks it is fed by PV and it ramps current draw up or down to implement MPPT.
Some AIO have HV DC rail shared by inverter, MPPT, bidirectional battery charger (SolArk)
If the MPP is just PV to battery, would definitely be slow. Otherwise, your surge is whatever comes from HV capacitor.
Click to expand...

So @joesmith123 would need a few batteries as well as that MPP solar all in one ?
 
Hedges said:
The AIO thinks it is fed by PV and it ramps current draw up or down to implement MPPT.
Some AIO have HV DC rail shared by inverter, MPPT, bidirectional battery charger (SolArk)
If the MPP is just PV to battery, would definitely be slow (since batteryless, likely to HV caps). Otherwise, your surge is whatever comes from HV capacitor.

An inverter designed for good surge will be better for starting motors. Some old brands, and Midnight Rosie does 2x rated output for 60 seconds (but that isn't hybrid, no PV input.)
Click to expand...
It should just ramp up it amp draw. Shouldn't be a problem because the voltage won't drastically drop.
Mine runs battery less from solar without issue. As long as there isn't a lot of clouds.
 
On second thoughts, maybe not. If MPPT's PV wattage is similar to its battery inverter wattage, he may be correct that path from traction battery is good enough. Maybe vendor has specs for batteryless backup, maybe not. The question is starting surge. Starting a motor typically takes the better part of one second. I think that would significantly draw down voltage on capacitor (I've measured 1% ripple at 120 Hz for GT PV). It may ramp up boost from battery faster than buck from PV. Or maybe not.

If surge capability exceeds PV input wattage rating, then I would think "starting" batteries would help.

timselectric said:
It should just ramp up it amp draw. Shouldn't be a problem because the voltage won't drastically drop.
Mine runs battery less from solar without issue. As long as there isn't a lot of clouds.
Click to expand...

How is its motor starting capability?

Compare Rosie, 48V battery inverter spec 8kW and 15kW 60 second surge. It managed to kick over a 5 HP air compressor (which I estimate is 30kW surge) but shut down seconds later.
 
Hedges said:
The Classic could draw from 220V traction battery and deliver ~ 60A at 12V (720W) or at 48V (2880W) to charge a different battery system. A bit more watts at whatever slight higher voltage.

From there you can run a 12V to 120V or 48V to 120V inverter. With modest 48V battery (e.g. four car batteries in series) you could start and run some larger tools, given a decent inverter.



Do that with extra battery. What it draws from PV input (your traction battery) is limited in current and likely ramps up slowly.
With a 48V starting battery bank, you can draw 700 "cranking" amps to kick over a large motor [edit - HV inverter, so only as much starting current as it was designed for; some are]. It will then recharge and float, drawing from lithium traction battery.

This is what I would like to do to add lithium to my Sunny Island AGM system.
Click to expand...

The classic setup would involve ANOTHER inverter, if I am reading correctly

Ideally I would want 1 inverter to handle the situation

"PV input is limited in current and likely ramps up slowly" I dont think so, since that traction battery can run a 3000 lb car for a few minutes up 25 mph, meaning it has high current
 
Ampster said:
Have you found many 220VDC systems? it may seem inefficient but cost effective is another form of efficient use of dollars.
Click to expand...
Dont many off grid solar inverters accept 200-500 VDC? I can plug the prius right into the high voltage input
 
Hedges said:
On second thoughts, maybe not. If MPPT's PV wattage is similar to its battery inverter wattage, he may be correct that path from traction battery is good enough. Maybe vendor has specs for batteryless backup, maybe not. The question is starting surge. Starting a motor typically takes the better part of one second. I think that would significantly draw down voltage on capacitor (I've measured 1% ripple at 120 Hz for GT PV). It may ramp up boost from battery faster than buck from PV. Or maybe not.

If surge capability exceeds PV input wattage rating, then I would think "starting" batteries would help.



How is its motor starting capability?

Compare Rosie, 48V battery inverter spec 8kW and 15kW 60 second surge. It managed to kick over a 5 HP air compressor (which I estimate is 30kW surge) but shut down seconds later.
Click to expand...
Starts my 12kbtu A/C, and my vertical air compressor.
Can't remember what it's HP is. But it's a decent starting surge.
 
SamG340 said:
Yes I think so.

You could also do it with sperate components, but this MPP solar inverter is a one-step solution. simple
Click to expand...
Yes I dont like having multiple components, this definitely looks promising

And with setup, later I can add solar panels?

1 input prius, 2nd input solar panels -> house panel

Will that work?
 
That MPP has spec 100A charging from PV, which is ~ 5kW, so you're probably correct.

joesmith123 said:
Yes I dont like having multiple components, this definitely looks promising

And with setup, later I can add solar panels?

1 input prius, 2nd input solar panels -> house panel

Will that work?
Click to expand...

If 2 MPPT inputs, likely closer to 2500W per input, so 2500W from battery. Dig into specs of the one you want to figure it out.

Adding 48V battery wouldn't hurt. It would be kept at float by traction battery (except when your draw exceeds one MPPT)
The add PV would only supply AC loads PV direct and charge 48V battery. Unfortunately no easy way to also recharge traction battery.
 
joesmith123 said:
Yes I dont like having multiple components, this definitely looks promising

And with setup, later I can add solar panels?

1 input prius, 2nd input solar panels -> house panel

Will that work?
Click to expand...

So you can add solar later but it's going to take a bit of playing around , but I am happy to help you sort it out.

Your panels are never going to charge the Prius.

Solar panels are pretty useless on their own, you need a solar charge controller (mppt), batteries, and an inverter, to make it all the way to house/work shop loads

The mppt in your 'MPP solar inverter ' is going to be taken up by the Prius


So to install panels you would need , a second cheap MPPT charge controller (all this does is charge DC batteries from solar panels) https://www.ebay.com/itm/304442753427?hash=item46e233c193:g:8LUAAOSwpDhiV8wE&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAA0IKWeQcBNtfLClk0CG8/9LO8tPss8z2V1yGghB/wD9zGN+Lv1ez3/pNHaAwyUP+FslG2u/IrRxX37FM6luUOnuG4U2Kf9qim1a6N1C9F+uWR3K/wfraQEUo9QpURe3VA1A7JcA2dPw7AOZPcRr8T7BqHLZaa+M3lqZXMuwf5iQMqukj2CD2z/WBpl6CJgzxYxr3QCWq9hhVUtmS7FsLS+Gn422rrbmxA1iYUmuR52nK6MNbfBx8FgnbDCgaUMDKx47zBvzOhvKv400fleyEKWnM=|tkp:Bk9SR_7eis7kYQ


And also some form of batteries (outside of the Prius)

$400/$500 in setup PLUS the panels
 
Last edited:
Hedges said:
The AIO thinks it is fed by PV and it ramps current draw up or down to implement MPPT.
Some AIO have HV DC rail shared by inverter, MPPT, bidirectional battery charger (SolArk)
If the MPP is just PV to battery, would definitely be slow (since batteryless, likely to HV caps). Otherwise, your surge is whatever comes from HV capacitor.

An inverter designed for good surge will be better for starting motors. Some old brands, and Midnight Rosie does 2x rated output for 60 seconds (but that isn't hybrid, no PV input.)
Click to expand...
I have read this comment 6 times already, I think i get what you're saying
 
SamG340 said:
So @joesmith123 would need a few batteries as well as that MPP solar all in one ?
Click to expand...


Prius 220VDC -> (PV input) MPP solar inverter then 2 outputs: 1 -> house panel, 2 ->battery bank

Meaning, input high voltage into MPP unit, then output into the house panel
Also, output from MPP inverter to battery bank (preferably higher voltage)

This can be done with just one unit?

Am i correct here?
 
joesmith123 said:
Prius 220VDC -> (PV input) MPP solar inverter -> house panel (240VAC)
l
V
(Going to battery bank)

Meaning, input high voltage into MPP unit, then output into the house panel
Also, output from MPP inverter to battery bank (preferably higher voltage)

Am i correct here?
Click to expand...

Yes correct you've got it , it'll most likely be a 48v battery system in your case.


Battery bank arrow goes both ways , MPP can charge the 48v battery from solar pv input (Prius) and also draw from it to feed your house panel.


But when the Prius is running live the 'MPP solar inverter' will basically ignore the 48v battery. Charging the 48v battery where it can, but not drawing from it
 
joesmith123 said:
Prius 220VDC -> (PV input) MPP solar inverter then 2 outputs: 1 -> house panel, 2 ->battery bank

Meaning, input high voltage into MPP unit, then output into the house panel
Also, output from MPP inverter to battery bank (preferably higher voltage)

This can be done with just one unit?

Am i correct here?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
Hedges said:
On second thoughts, maybe not. If MPPT's PV wattage is similar to its battery inverter wattage, he may be correct that path from traction battery is good enough. Maybe vendor has specs for batteryless backup, maybe not. The question is starting surge. Starting a motor typically takes the better part of one second. I think that would significantly draw down voltage on capacitor (I've measured 1% ripple at 120 Hz for GT PV). It may ramp up boost from battery faster than buck from PV. Or maybe not.

If surge capability exceeds PV input wattage rating, then I would think "starting" batteries would help.



How is its motor starting capability?

Compare Rosie, 48V battery inverter spec 8kW and 15kW 60 second surge. It managed to kick over a 5 HP air compressor (which I estimate is 30kW surge) but shut down seconds later.
Click to expand...
I think I'll add batteries just to have a reserve when i add solar

Plus, the prius will run less if it sees that the traction battery is not being taxed, saving me $$

I plan on using used semi batteries to make the 48V series setup

good or bad idea?
 
timselectric said:
Ironically:
My solar system powered the chainsaw, that cut the trees, to remove shade from itself.
Click to expand...

Tim , I see that you are a very intelligent man, especially when it comes to solar , you've helped me more than once . And I mean no disrespect


But you're not using irony right ! That is not ironic at all in anyway shape or form..
, it's apt , ,it's definitely amusing. NOT ironic ...


Irony is a lot like sarcasm , (another thing you yanks can't quite get lol )


smartblogger.com

15+ Irony Examples Even Alanis Morissette Would Appreciate

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I think semi starting batteries will be good for surge (maybe PV is OK too), but try to set minimum battery voltage in inverter around 85% to 90% SoC. Draining the when they can't immediately recharge will damage them.

PV will only help while there are loads. MPPT may be just as likely to drain traction battery as to use the PV; it doesn't know how you want to prioritize.
 
SamG340 said:
Tim , I see that you are a very intelligent man, especially when it comes to solar , you've helped me more than once . And I mean no disrespect


But you're not using irony right ! That is not ironic at all in anyway shape or form..
, it's apt , ,it's definitely amusing. NOT ironic ...


Irony is a lot like sarcasm , (another thing you yanks can't quite get lol )


smartblogger.com

15+ Irony Examples Even Alanis Morissette Would Appreciate

Looking for some irony examples to help you grasp this tricky literary term? Read on to get the official definition with plenty of examples.
smartblogger.com smartblogger.com
Click to expand...
Ironic, isn't it. lol
 
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